Aircraft/Engine log question

kgruber

kgruber

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Mechanics question:

Do the entries for overhauled mags go in the aircraft or engine log books?
 
I would go with engine.

If you pull the engine off and tell a mechanic to IRAN it for another 500 hours of service, he is probably going to look through the engine logbook to get an idea of the history of the engine and what he should be looking for during his inspection. If he sees both mags have only 300 hours on them, he won't waste your money by tearing into them.
 
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While it technically makes no difference, since the mags would generally go with the engine if the engine was pulled, it would make sense that the mag maintenance records would go with the engine maintenance records.
 
Not an A&P, but as they are engine accessories, not airframe accessories, the entry should go in the engine logbook unless you keep a separate log for the mag itself (technically legal, but nobody at our level does it). Actually, what happens is you get paperwork documenting the overhaul of the magneto when the magneto comes back from the shop. An entry is made in the engine log showing the removal of the old mag and the installation of the overhauled mag, and the paperwork documenting the mag overhaul is kept with the other records.
 
Assume that you'll need to look in both books if you really want to know the status of any appliance or accessory. And maybe the prop log too.
 
All Accessories not listed in the engine Illustrated Parts break down are airframe accessories/ appliances.

thus the mags are not a engine accessory, and go in the A/F maintenance records.

The only entries in the engine maintenance records are the maintenance on the engine.

there is an AC on maintenance records.
AC43-9C
 
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Tom-D said:
All Accessories not listed in the engine Illustrated Parts break down are airframe accessories/ appliances.

thus the mags are not a engine accessory, and go in the A/F maintenance records.

The only entries in the engine maintenance records are the maintenance on the engine.

there is an AC on maintenance records.
AC43-9C
Click to expand...

My Jeffco mechanic insists on the aircraft log, and that sounded strange to me. But your post, Tom, supports that. Thanks.
 
kgruber said:
My Jeffco mechanic insists on the aircraft log, and that sounded strange to me. But your post, Tom, supports that. Thanks.
Click to expand...

If you were to comply with an AD on any accessory, would you enter it in _____ log?

Does the"Aircraft" encompass all systems in the aircraft?
 
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Tom-D said:
If you were to comply with an AD on any accessory, would you enter it in _____ log?

Does the"Aircraft" encompass all systems in the aircraft?
Click to expand...
Except he probably doesn't have an "Aircraft" log, but rather, an "Airframe" log. So riddle me this, Tom -- can a mechanic with only an Airframe rating legally remove a magneto from an engine, work on it, reinstall it, and sign the log entry returning everything to service?
 
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I put stuff like that in both logs. In these days of neatly printed stickers it's not necessary to write it out longhand multiple times, just copy and past and nobody is ever going to complain that there is too much information in the logbook.
 
Ron Levy said:
Except he probably doesn't have an "Aircraft" log, but rather, an "Airframe" log. So riddle me this, Tom -- can a mechanic with only an Airframe rating legally remove a magneto from an engine, work on it, reinstall it, and sign the log entry returning everything to service?
Click to expand...

There ya go, taking this thread on a tangent.

but

Any one can remove it, but when you install any appliance on an engine you are working on / maintaining the engine. That requires the "P" portion of the rating.

That has no bearing on which log it gets entered in.
 
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Tom-D said:
There ya go, taking this thread on a tangent.

but

Any one can remove it, but when you install any appliance on an engine you are working on / maintaining the engine. That requires the "P" portion of the rating.

That has no bearing on which log it gets entered in.
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I've been through AC 43-9C, and I don't see anything which supports the idea that working on a Powerplant component gets entered in the Airframe log. You'll have to point that out to me.
 
Let's see a show of hands here, anybody know anyone actively working as a GA mechanic that only has a 'A' license?

As far as logs go, you are not even required to have separate airframe and engine logbooks, nor are you required to have anything resembling a "book". The only requirement is that you have records of all maintenance performed on the aircraft and it's components.
 
Silvaire said:
As far as logs go, you are not even required to have separate airframe and engine logbooks,
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I don't think that statement is consistent with current FAA thinking. AC 43-9C, to which Tom referred, suggests otherwise, and even indicates that separate records for the prop are required, too.
 
Ron Levy said:
I don't think that statement is consistent with current FAA thinking. AC 43-9C, to which Tom referred, suggests otherwise, and even indicates that separate records for the prop are required, too.
Click to expand...

Better look again...

"c: Section 91.417(a)(l). Requires a record of maintenance, for each aircraft (including the airframe) and each engine, propeller, rotor, and appliance of an aircraft. This does not require separate or individual records for each of these items."
 
Silvaire said:
Better look again...

"c: Section 91.417(a)(l). Requires a record of maintenance, for each aircraft (including the airframe) and each engine, propeller, rotor, and appliance of an aircraft. This does not require separate or individual records for each of these items."
Click to expand...
Keep reading, and if that doesn't help, ask an Airworthiness Inspector at your FSDO.
 
I am an AI, now you show us the regulatory statement that requires anyone to keep separate record books.

hint: it doesn't exist.
 
Ron Levy said:
I don't think that statement is consistent with current FAA thinking.
Click to expand...

and of course you know FAA thinking. yet I'll bet you have never been thru a IA seminar or had the training we get each year on this topic.

Ron Levy said:
AC 43-9C, to which Tom referred, suggests otherwise, and even indicates that separate records for the prop are required, too.
Click to expand...

You actually must read what I write, and tell me where I said there was a statement like that in AC 43-9C.

The FAA guidance is,,,, If the appliance does not appear in the list of parts for the engine, it is an appliance, and can be kept with the aircraft when the engine is removed and another installed, That method keeps the STCed appliances with the N number that they are applied to in the aircraft history records.
 
Silvaire said:
Let's see a show of hands here, anybody know anyone actively working as a GA mechanic that only has a 'A' license?

Yes. Three of them. One is ready to add P, the others aren't.

As far as logs go, you are not even required to have separate airframe and engine logbooks, nor are you required to have anything resembling a "book". The only requirement is that you have records of all maintenance performed on the aircraft and it's components.
Click to expand...

Are you hiring?
 
You'll lose that argument in Dallas FSDO.

Ron Levy said:
I've been through AC 43-9C, and I don't see anything which supports the idea that working on a Powerplant component gets entered in the Airframe log. You'll have to point that out to me.
Click to expand...
 
Silvaire said:
Let's see a show of hands here, anybody know anyone actively working as a GA mechanic that only has a 'A' license?
Click to expand...

Aircraft northwest is owned and operated by a sheet metal expert with only a "A"

all he does is Cessna wings and a few fuselage panels, and reskins a few flight controls.
 
Ron Levy said:
Except he probably doesn't have an "Aircraft" log, but rather, an "Airframe" log.
Click to expand...

aircraftjpg.jpg
 
I was told that if an engine can't run without it, it goes in the engine logbook. Otherwise in the airframe logbook.

An engine cannot run without a magneto, so it goes in the engine logbook.

It could run without a starter, so a starter goes in the airframe logbook.
 
NoHeat said:
I was told that if an engine can't run without it, it goes in the engine logbook. Otherwise in the airframe logbook.

An engine cannot run without a magneto, so it goes in the engine logbook.

It could run without a starter, so a starter goes in the airframe logbook.
Click to expand...

IF your engine was certified with Eiseman Mags and it required a STC to swap those to Slicks, where does the STC major modification get logged?

Have you ever tried to get a engine history record of the engine by S/N from OKC ?

Can any engine be airworthy without a required appliance in place? so can it fly that way?

Where would this entry be logged?

Removed and replaced both mags with slick mags S/N____ on the left, and S/N_____, on the right, and set timing to 28 degrees BTDC.

where would this be logged?

Replaced both mags with Slicks IAW the STC SA22436? see 337 dated this date.
 
Here's the first logbook for my Luscombe. It contains all of the maintenance entries for airframe, engine and propeller as well as a time log of every flight made from August 1946 up to September 1960. It wasn't until 1968 that someone decided to start a separate engine logbook - and it wasn't because it was a law or a regulation.

0001.jpg
 
Really! The Luscombe was the first all metal personal airplane. Wow! They are beautiful. I've never even flown in one.
 
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