Aircoupe/Ercoupe Alon A-2

[BigAL]

Noob here, go easy on me. Dad had his lic and isn't current, I'm now gonna start my lessons this summer.......I hope.(after planting and wheat harvest)

Dad always wanted an ercoupe, so it looks like that is in the plans. I'd like to get my training in the coupe so it is a bit cheaper. I've only been reading and do'n sporty's online course and a bit excited and ready to get in the air......but the runway is closed for the next 2 months(new runway). I know a little about the coupes, but wondered if any of you could tell me if it is a good trainer plane or go w/the 172?

The Alon does have rudder, but I don't think it has flaps.

Btw, enjoy the site and all the good reading.......one of these days my shirt will be on the wall.

A bit about me, I farm, joke ALOT, and have a couple smokers(bbq) that get plenty of attention. I was into rc planes until it got too expensive(so yea, now I'm look'n at buy'n a plane.....go figure). Also looks like I'll have to watch the 8hrs from bottle to throttle.

Thanks for the help.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

I know little about Aircoupes....but welcome to the board!

 

[tonycondon]

Ercoupe is a fine airplane to learn to fly in. Club I used to be in used it for sport training, and some private training too. Especially if that is what you are going to be flying once you get your license, that might as well be what you learn to fly in.

 

[BigAL]

Ercoupe is a fine airplane to learn to fly in. Club I used to be in used it for sport training, and some private training too. Especially if that is what you are going to be flying once you get your license, that might as well be what you learn to fly in.

I see why your not fly'n today Tony, ya got some nasties head'n your way. Doesn't look too good, keep that crap out there.

Yep, the coupe will be for fun/check'n fields. When it's time for xc w/the family there are many options to rent.

Dad was hope'n to get a sport lic w/the coupe, but I think it's too heavy. But, that's why I'm here.

Thanks guys for the fast response, makes a complete noob feel a little less "outta place". I should be work'n on QBooks, but needed a quick "fix"....and FSX is just......well you know.

 

[tonycondon]

the alon aircoupe cant be used for sport pilots. 1320 max gross. you're looking at 415C and 415CD Ercoupes, that have never been stc'd to a higher weight

 

[Dan Thomas]

I have a few hours in a 1967 Alon, last year they were built. Very easy to fly, but noisy and rather uncomfortable. The rudders have minimal authority. On the other hand, it will outperform a Cessna 150 in every way. The one I flew grossed at 1450 and had 90 hp. It made the 100-hp 1600-lb 150 look sick.

I'd be concerned that it's too easy. If I were to start flying now instead of 36 years ago I'd go look for a Citabria, so I'd learn what my feet are for.

Dan

 

[BigAL]

I have a few hours in a 1967 Alon, last year they were built. Very easy to fly, but noisy and rather uncomfortable. The rudders have minimal authority. On the other hand, it will outperform a Cessna 150 in every way. The one I flew grossed at 1450 and had 90 hp. It made the 100-hp 1600-lb 150 look sick.

I'd be concerned that it's too easy. If I were to start flying now instead of 36 years ago I'd go look for a Citabria, so I'd learn what my feet are for.

Dan

Funny you mention a citabria, good friend of mine just buzzed my shed w/his.......he showed me my first loop and b.roll. First plane for me w/a stick, for the limited time I'd have to say I like the stick better than the yoke, but both have been limited. I bet he'd give me some time in his if I gave him time in mine.

I also plan on getting some time in the skyhawk they have up there. But anyway, I'm get'n way ahead.....I gotta start w/the first lesson. Too many plans, too little time.

I've heard the coupe is one of the safest planes, but then I wonder why there aren't many others out there w/the "H" tail and dihedral(sp?) that those have?

Guess that could be another thread, why not the H?

 

[poadeleted20]

Just remember that if you get your PP in a no-pedals Ercoupe/Aircoupe, you'll have a no-pedals limitation on your pilot certificate, and that seriously limits the planes you can fly. If the Alon you get has pedals, you don't get the limitation.

 

[BigAL]

Just remember that if you get your PP in a no-pedals Ercoupe/Aircoupe, you'll have a no-pedals limitation on your pilot certificate, and that seriously limits the planes you can fly. If the Alon you get has pedals, you don't get the limitation.

Yep, the alon has pedals, one major reason we are/will go w/that plane. I do still want checked in the 172, for many reasons.

My plan is also not to stop there, I want instuments, tail, and ME........my goal anyway....for now.

 

[wanttaja]

I've heard the coupe is one of the safest planes, but then I wonder why there aren't many others out there w/the "H" tail and dihedral(sp?) that those have?

Guess that could be another thread, why not the H?

More expensive to manufacture. Two vertical stabilizers, two rudders, splitting mechanism to work both rudders from a single input, beefing up horizontal tail structure to support the yaw loads, etc.

Ron Wanttaja

 

[BigAL]

More expensive to manufacture. Two vertical stabilizers, two rudders, splitting mechanism to work both rudders from a single input, beefing up horizontal tail structure to support the yaw loads, etc.

Ron Wanttaja

More than glass cockpits, retracts? Are the yaw loads that great given out of prop wash on vert. stab? Is there that much on the hoizontal?

Sorry Ron, ya gotta remember that I'm a noob and I'm gonna ask alot of stupid questions. But I'm here to learn and have some fun, call me every name in the book.........I'll still ask those questions.

I see your point, but I'm not satisfied w/the answer. I think it has more to do w/looks, as stupid as that sounds..........but come'n from a noob, what do you expect.

 

[Dan Thomas]

More than glass cockpits, retracts? Are the yaw loads that great given out of prop wash on vert. stab? Is there that much on the hoizontal?

Sorry Ron, ya gotta remember that I'm a noob and I'm gonna ask alot of stupid questions. But I'm here to learn and have some fun, call me every name in the book.........I'll still ask those questions.

I see your point, but I'm not satisfied w/the answer. I think it has more to do w/looks, as stupid as that sounds..........but come'n from a noob, what do you expect.

The vertical surfaces are there to keep the front end of the airplane pointing to the front. Any sideways movement will force those tail surfaces to shove the nose to point more in line with the direction of flight. If we want to slip the airplane, the forces get even larger. So those forces have to be carried somehow, and so the horizontal structure needs to be sturdier than it would if the vertical tails weren't out at the tips. And with those rudders out of the prop's slipstream they net are needs to be larger, so more weight and so on. In the Alon, the rudders were mostly useless for slipping or anything else.

A really bizarre example of style over function was the common T-tail seen on many 1970s-era lightplanes. Made the vertical tail get a lot heavier and added more control systems inside it.

Dan

 

[Dan Thomas]

Very Noisy! The accident rate has been extra high lately. They are getting old?

I think a few had corrosion problems in the spar center-section, but most accidents, I think, could be put down to the high sink rate if they get too slow on final. Those short wings lose a lot of lift at low speeds.

The other drawback with the Ercoupe for training, at least here in Canada: they're stall- and spin-proof. Can't have that gap in the training here. It would appear, if the accident rate is increasing, that they aren't idiot-proof.

Dan

 

[wanttaja]

More expensive to manufacture. Two vertical stabilizers, two rudders, splitting mechanism to work both rudders from a single input, beefing up horizontal tail structure to support the yaw loads, etc.

More than glass cockpits, retracts? Are the yaw loads that great given out of prop wash on vert. stab? Is there that much on the hoizontal?

For the most part, small aircraft are built by hand labor. There's very little they can automate. They can use CAD-CAM systems to crank out pre-drilled skins, they can punch out bulkheads, etc., but it's still going to take a group of skilled workers to put it all together. Even if they could come up with a way to use automotive-type robots, it's just not cost effective...what makes sense to do for 1,000,000 units a year doesn't pay off for 200.

Glass cockpits are the classic opposite. The entire world is attuned to assembling circuit boards, with stuff like resistors and other small parts loaded on feed tapes for automatic installation and soldering.

Small airplanes have a lot of hand work, but if there were a good reason for building a twin-tail setup, manufacturers would spend the extra money. There just isn't the justification. Historically, planes ended up with multiple tails because of some sort of mission issue...a plane needed more rudder authority...

or the designer wanted to get the tails out of the spiraling prop blast for increased spin resistance (Ercoupe), or United wanted Douglas' proposed DC-4 to fit into their existing hangars....

But there'd have to be a strong financial incentive to include twin tails just for the looks of it...for an airplane that's going to need to compete in the marketplace, at least. Remember, the final version of the Ercoupe eventually went to a single-tail design.... for *marketing* reasons.

Sorry Ron, ya gotta remember that I'm a noob and I'm gonna ask alot of stupid questions. But I'm here to learn and have some fun, call me every name in the book.........I'll still ask those questions.

I see your point, but I'm not satisfied w/the answer. I think it has more to do w/looks, as stupid as that sounds..........but come'n from a noob, what do you expect.

Let me introduce you to two words that'll change your life: "Spin Zone."

Ron Wanttaja

 

[docmirror]

I've had several hours in the Ercoupes, and even a little in the Alon. These are what I started looking to buy many years ago, and again recently. The Ercoupes are fine flying little planes. They do have a decent sink rate when the power is off. Also, they are easy to overload, and have limited elevator authority which was designed in to limit it's ability to stall.

They don't like hot weather, and have lousy climb performance under hot conditions with a cruise prop. I would say they are fine to learn in, but as has been noted, the no rudder planes have a limitation on the cert. It can be flown off by spending a few hours in a Cessna or Piper.

 

[skyflyer8]

I am one of the few Ercoupe nuts around here and I can vouch for them being fun and easy to fly. As for your choice of trainer, go with whatever you intend to fly most after you earn your certificate.

I went from a 172 to Ercoupes without rudder pedals and found it an easy transition. The Ercoupe is very unique so you need to understand its quirks. Once you do, you'll find it intuitive and might just fall in love with the design like the rest of its fans. I haven't worked with anyone transitioning the other direction (172 to Ercoupe) so I can't say I know what that transition is like.

The best resources I've found are the Ercoupe Owners Club and the Ercoupe-tech group on Yahoo. I have really learned a lot from reading the discussions in the -tech group. I have gotten several questions answered. You can search the archived messages once you join.

Have fun!

Edit: Here I am with the mechanic taxi testing our project last month!

 

[BigAL]

I am one of the few Ercoupe nuts around here and I can vouch for them being fun and easy to fly. As for your choice of trainer, go with whatever you intend to fly most after you earn your certificate.

I went from a 172 to Ercoupes without rudder pedals and found it an easy transition. The Ercoupe is very unique so you need to understand its quirks. Once you do, you'll find it intuitive and might just fall in love with the design like the rest of its fans. I haven't worked with anyone transitioning the other direction (172 to Ercoupe) so I can't say I know what that transition is like.

The best resources I've found are the Ercoupe Owners Club and the Ercoupe-tech group on Yahoo. I have really learned a lot from reading the discussions in the -tech group. I have gotten several questions answered. You can search the archived messages once you join.

Have fun!

Edit: Here I am with the mechanic taxi testing our project last month!

I did a little reading on the ercoupe owners club........well, I read every ercoupe story. I haven't spent much time on the tech site.

Nice look'n plane, I could see it earlier this morn, but now I can't.
As of now, I'll know if we are get'n a coupe this week. We have a hanger spot in a town nearby until tqk gets fixed. Gonna be a long 2 months.

 

[flyersfan31]

I hope you're not THAT big, Big Al. Them ercoupe's aren't the most roomy planes on the ol' flight line. Neat lookin', though.

Cheers to you. Good luck on the license. you'll never regret it!!!!

 

[BigAL]

I hope you're not THAT big, Big Al. Them ercoupe's aren't the most roomy planes on the ol' flight line. Neat lookin', though.

Cheers to you. Good luck on the license. you'll never regret it!!!!

no, 5'10" 165#. Got that name from sports, long story.

Thank you, I'm do'n as much prep as I can now. Got the books, online course, and even FSX to at least see guages in "action" and to maybe spur my son into getting his lic(13yr old). I still remember alot of what Dad taught me when I was a kid. We used to fly 100miles to get a drink, you know what that is like. Best pop is at an airport, some of the best people too.

 

[ApacheBob]

Very Noisy! The accident rate has been extra high lately. They are getting old?

The Sandwich Illinois crash two weeks ago is a real bummer. I wonder if they will ever find out the cause. It was a '48 model.
I have a few hours in the Ercoupe. It is cheap and fun.
ApacheBob