Airbus Hydraulic issues

RotorAndWing

RotorAndWing

Final Approach
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Rotor&Wing
Well, now that the normal modus operandi for the media is to define the message FIRST, and then edit the facts to fit the message, what do we expect?
 
The aftermath of the prolonged stress like that will be tough to deal with for a lot of those folks. The pilots were probably too busy to dwell on things, the passengers not so much.
 
Condensed recording is up on LiveATC.....sounds like they waited a while before actually declaring an emergency.
 
RotorAndWing said:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-sends-careering-wildly-skies-FOUR-hours.html

Mr Mizer said: 'You could hear a screeching - an obvious mechanical screeching. We were bouncing around a lot.
Mr. Mizer was hearing the PTU (power transfer unit) trying to operate.​

One can only imagine the lawyers in Vegas racing to the airport to greet the passengers. :rolleyes2:​
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Sounds like they lost either Green or Yellow hydraulics and the PTU was trying to run. Depending on the failure, this can actually overheat the other side as well and now your down to the Blue system. Definitely an emergency but the crew apparently handled it well. Think that maybe the wild ride was just holding over Vegas in the summer time turbulence? Once again, the victim mentality is encouraged by shoddy sensationalist reporting.
 
maddog52 said:
Sounds like they lost either Green or Yellow hydraulics and the PTU was trying to run. Depending on the failure, this can actually overheat the other side as well and now your down to the Blue system. Definitely an emergency but the crew apparently handled it well. Think that maybe the wild ride was just holding over Vegas in the summer time turbulence? Once again, the victim mentality is encouraged by shoddy sensationalist reporting.
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Yep.....
 
Well, now that the normal modus operandi for the media is to define the message FIRST, and then edit the facts to fit the message, what do we expect?
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Ugh. That's it. I'm officially done with the media in this country. I can't read or understand the one sentence total discontinuity paragraphs made of total cock-n-bull nonsense anymore. I can't decipher it anymore.

Check me if I got this right for this whatever it was that happened:
Something catastrophic melted and destroyed the pilots ability to control the airplane. As a result of that, all on it's own, the plane was wildly out of control all over the sky for multiple hours doing something undefined that would likely make the red bull air race pilots violently airsick and likely win the air race in record time. Whatever failed caused air turbulence in the atmosphere to bounce the plane around in addition to the lurching around it was doing on it's own that the pilots were unable to control. The passengers knew more than the flight crew about what was happening to the plane because they could hear an undefined mechanical screeching on a system they knew nothing about and didn't know existed before it melted even though it might not have melted in the first place but they said it did therefore it melted even if the investigators find out otherwise later. (Aside: I don't know about anyone else however a jet engine in perfect condition sounds like mechanical screeching to me) Even though the plane was out of control and the pilots declared an emergency, they refused to land because it's not possible at all to land while over max landing weight even if the plane would have crashed in the meantime. Because the plane wasn't controllable in flight, the front wheels would not turn after it somehow magically landed while wildly out of control. Geese hitting the windshield of another plane in the same company whenever that happened caused this plane to have mechanical problems. A bomb threat and a whiney kid on other flights in the past caused who knows what though that behavior probably caused whatever to melt on this plane.

And I think the cock-n-bullsi, um, highly respected knows everything there is to know expert in all things aviation reporter missed the bit about a lizard walking across a rock in the Lahaul Spiti Valley. That lizard and rock caused a sun flare on Venus that caused a coronal mass ejection on Enceladus which created a black hole through a star trek warp communicator which melted the part in the airplane that caused this whole thing to happen in the first place because GA did it. - If you think that sounds stupid, re-read the article the expert wrote about the wildly careering (careering? how does a plane career out of control through the sky?) mechanical meltdown jet blue plane again.
 
Can we get an FAR that Federally pre-empts local law, authorizing bitchslapping reporters that write drivel like this?
 
Why didn't they fly to New York? If you're gonna burn the fuel, might as well do it productively.
 
Henning said:
Why didn't they fly to New York? If you're gonna burn the fuel, might as well do it productively.
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Might have something to do with the ECAM message saying "Land ASAP".

In a dual hydraulic failure you're going to have degradation in flight controls such as loss of various spoiler panels, loss of yaw damper as well as loss of nose wheel steering on landing, potential loss of landing gear (although it can be lowered manually) and loss of engine reverser function.

Dual hydraulic failures on the A320 fall under the emergency checklist in the QRH.
 
RotorAndWing said:
Might have something to do with the ECAM message saying "Land ASAP".

In a dual hydraulic failure you're going to have degradation in flight controls such as loss of various spoiler panels, loss of yaw damper as well as loss of nose wheel steering on landing, potential loss of landing gear (although it can be lowered manually) and loss of engine reverser function.

Dual hydraulic failures on the A320 fall under the emergency checklist in the QRH.
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If I read the story right they flew around for several hours burning it off anyway, 'Land ASAP' was hours off.:dunno:
 
Henning said:
If I read the story right they flew around for several hours burning it off anyway, 'Land ASAP' was hours off.:dunno:
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I'm not going to second guess the crew.

Flying around at low altitude burning down fuel is not the same as climbing to altitude and going cross country. The airplane is in an emergency situation. The ECAM "Land ASAP" means just that, "As Soon As Possible". Evidently the crew felt getting down to landing weight was important. Keeping an airport close by was also important.
 
RotorAndWing said:
I'm not going to second guess the crew.

Flying around at low altitude burning down fuel is not the same as climbing to altitude and going cross country. The airplane is in an emergency situation. The ECAM "Land ASAP" means just that, "As Soon As Possible". Evidently the crew felt getting down to landing weight was important. Keeping an airport close by was also important.
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I seriously doubt the crew made that call.
 
I have to believe it was the Captains decision as to what to do. NOT the companies.
The PIC still has SOME authority even on the 121 operations.
 
Henning said:
Like the 747 that lost the engine on the way to London an continued, they called the office and the office told them what to do, it's called 'passing the buck'.
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The Captain makes the final decision. Dispatch and Maintenance can make suggestions, but the Captain has the final say so.

I doubt seriously that jetBlue would have tried to convince the crew to fly to JFK. The airplane is in an emergency and down to one hydraulic system. The ECAM is loaded with Status messages, and at the top is "Land ASAP". apparently the Captain decided not to compound the problem with an overweight landing.
 
markb5900 said:
I have to believe it was the Captains decision as to what to do. NOT the companies.
The PIC still has SOME authority even on the 121 operations.
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The PIC still has the final say. In a 121 operation (Domestic and Flag) the release is a joint responsibility of the Captain and Dispatcher. Dispatch can refuse to release the aircraft, or the Captain can refuse to accept the release.
 
Theorhetically the PIC/Captain most definitely has the final word in the operation of the flight. In practice it isn't often when a captain will go against direct company advice.
 
Henning said:
Like the 747 that lost the engine on the way to London an continued, they called the office and the office told them what to do, it's called 'passing the buck'.
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Keep in mind that decision by the 74 crew to keep going after losing one on departure from SFO led to a huge ****ing match between BA and the FAA. I seriously doubt any domestic carrier would risk that, especially after Alaska 261 (dispatch had told them to keep going to the destination).


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Henning said:
Theorhetically the PIC/Captain most definitely has the final word in the operation of the flight. In practice it isn't often when a captain will go against direct company advice.
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Have some link to prove this theory?
 
RotorAndWing said:
So what are you trying to get at here? :dunno:
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Nothing, I was just wondering why they flew around in circles for hours rather than a straight line is all and that the Captain would have consulted with the office on the decision.
 
Henning said:
Nothing, I was just wondering why they flew around in circles for hours rather than a straight line is all and that the Captain would have consulted with the office on the decision.
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Because they remained close to two large fields that could handle an emergency landing (Mc Carran and Nellis) the entire time in case the stuff hit the fan.




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Fearless Tower said:
Because they remained close to two large fields that could handle an emergency landing (Mc Carran and Nellis) the entire time in case the stuff hit the fan.
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I understand the principle, however, if they have lost 2 out of 3 hydraulic systems, then 'stuff hitting the fan' would consist of losing the third. Would they have any ability to control the plane at that point? If they have no control does it matter if there is a field nearby? See my question? At that point they may be better off on the other side of the Rockies.
 
Henning said:
I understand the principle, however, if they have lost 2 out of 3 hydraulic systems, then 'stuff hitting the fan' would consist of losing the third. Would they have any ability to control the plane at that point? If they have no control does it matter if there is a field nearby? See my question? At that point they may be better off on the other side of the Rockies.
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Area 51!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
Henning said:
Nothing, I was just wondering why they flew around in circles for hours rather than a straight line is all and that the Captain would have consulted with the office on the decision.
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Let me put it this way. There was no decision to consult on, the airplane would not have been able to complete the trip in it's condition. The airplane was going to land "ASAP" and the crew decided to burn down to landing weight before making that happen.
 
RotorAndWing said:
Let me put it this way. There was no decision to consult on, the airplane would not have been able to complete the trip in it's condition. The airplane was going to land "ASAP" and the crew decided to burn down to landing weight before making that happen.
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I understand that 'when' was to be ASAP, however with that being quite a bit of time away due to burning fuel, it still left options as to where.
 
Henning said:
I understand that 'when' was to be ASAP, however with that being quite a bit of time away due to burning fuel, it still left options as to where.
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No it did not. No Captain in his right mind would leave an area with perfectly good runways, emergency equipment and VFR conditions to go cross country over mountainous terrain in an Airbus 320 with two hydraulic systems inop.
 
Henning said:
I understand that 'when' was to be ASAP, however with that being quite a bit of time away due to burning fuel, it still left options as to where.
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Henning, I have to agree with R&W on this one. The airport of origin was the only continuously within gliding range suitable airport for this trip. With an unknown problem, and a SOP mandate to land ASAP, why go elsewhere?

-Skip
 
Skip Miller said:
Henning, I have to agree with R&W on this one. The airport of origin was the only continuously within gliding range suitable airport for this trip. With an unknown problem, and a SOP mandate to land ASAP, why go elsewhere?

-Skip
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What no one has answered is the control ability of the aircraft if the third hydraulic system failed. With limited ability to control the vector of the aircraft in that region, the chances of hitting a runway go way down and the chances of hitting a big rock go way up. The other side of the Rockies provides much more suitable terrain for a Souix Falls type of approach.

I'm not saying anybody did anything wrong, just wondering, 4 hrs covers a lot of ground.
 
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Does the Airbus family have the ability to dump fuel? Given the location and climatic conditions, (heat and low humidity) it seems that dumped fuel would have evaporated quickly. Seems to me, as one with zero time in the front row of an Airbus, that dumping fuel would have cut the time required to get to max landing weight.
 
Henning said:
What no one has answered is the control ability of the aircraft if the third hydraulic system failed. With limited ability to control the vector of the aircraft in that region, the chances of hitting a runway go way down and the chances of hitting a big rock go way up. The other side of the Rockies provides much more suitable terrain for a Souix Falls type of approach.

I'm not saying anybody did anything wrong, just wondering.
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I'm typed on the A320 and I can issue types on the aircraft and I understand what is going on in a situation like this.

I don't have a problem with what the crew did. They were degraded down to one hydraulic system which has an effect on landing distance and braking. The crew chose to burn off weight and remain local, again no issues there.
 
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