Air-to-air video suggestions?

[Diana]

For those of you who have some experience with this, do you have any suggestions?

We will, of course, use all the normal safety precautions…the cameraman will not be the PIC, lots of distance between the aircraft (zoom is a wonderful feature), constant communication, lots of altitude, etc. I might even try to take an observer in the Citabria for an extra set of eyes if they promise not to get sick.

We made a lot of photo runs with a regular camera trying to get shots for the magazine article for Ken, but we haven’t done video yet.

The mission is to shoot some video of the Citabria doing aerobatics. The maneuvers with a lot of altitude changes (loops and hammers) might present the most challenges as to where the wing would be in the other airplane.

We have the option of using our old Skyhawk, but the windows have some scratches. Barb will loan us her Cessna 172 if we want to use it. I wonder if a low wing airplane would be better?

What are your thoughts and suggestions? Thanks!

 

[JRitt]

The scratches on the windows of the Shyhawk will be no problem as long as the focas on the video camera is on manual so that it does not try to focus on the window.

 

[gkainz]

open the window? But then the next question will be "Anyone know how to remove frost from a video camera lens?" ... good luck and I'll look forward to watching the vid!

 

[fgcason]

We have the option of using our old Skyhawk, but the windows have some scratches. Barb will loan us her Cessna 172 if we want to use it. I wonder if a low wing airplane would be better?

Take the screw out of the support arm on the window. The window will lay up against the bottom of the wing indefinitely on its own.
If the crew gets cold with the window open, they should have planned better before getting in the plane.

I don't have any of my older AOPA magazines nearby right now and slow dialup is so wonderful, but there was an article about aircraft photography in IIRC early 2006 that had some suggestions on how to take ground and aerial photo's.

 

[jesse]

Take the screw out of the support arm on the window. The window will lay up against the bottom of the wing indefinitely on its own.

This works quite well--but the window will fall down if you slow down to about 60 knots and bank. Otherwise it stays up without a problem.

The wing, strut, and gear will be a problem in the C172.

 

[Diana]

The scratches on the windows of the Shyhawk will be no problem as long as the focus on the video camera is on manual so that it does not try to focus on the window.

OK. Looks like my cameraman needs to do some homework.

 

[Diana]

open the window? But then the next question will be "Anyone know how to remove frost from a video camera lens?" ...

It's still cold here, too, but at least we finally made it above freezing today.

good luck and I'll look forward to watching the vid!

Thanks Greg! BTW, are you getting around OK now?

 

[Diana]

I don't have any of my older AOPA magazines nearby right now and slow dialup is so wonderful, but there was an article about aircraft photography in IIRC early 2006 that had some suggestions on how to take ground and aerial photo's.

Thanks Frank. I'll have to dig through my old magazines and see if I can find the article. It's time to get rid of some of those piles of flying magazines all over the house, anyway. I think we'll take them to the Young Eagles rally in a few months and give them to the kids.

Still on dial-up, huh. Sometimes when we lose the satellite for awhile, we go back to dial-up. Brings out the "impatient" person.

 

[gkainz]

Hi Diana - thanks for asking. Yep, I got out of the boot last week and am making good progress - able to walk without pain and working on stretching and getting the leg (and the rest of the bod) back in shape. Been nursing my wife back to strength after her radiation treatment for the acoustic neuroma 2 weeks ago. Her recovery has not been at all what we were led to believe!

 

[flyingcheesehead]

The wing, strut, and gear will be a problem in the C172.

Actually, I think they might give the video some personality, and some perspective. It'd also be rather interesting footage because on vertical maneuvers like hammerheads, the video plane will have to be well above the altitude of the subject plane. I think it's really cool to see other things flying below me. So, I can see how a 172 would fit really well with the kind of videos Diana makes - Videos with lots of personality and charm.

I can't wait to see it! (And I'd love to fly one of the birds, if ya need another pilot... )

 

[gismo]

The scratches on the windows of the Shyhawk will be no problem as long as the focas on the video camera is on manual so that it does not try to focus on the window.

That's not entirely true. Scratches will increase the distortion with the result being bluring. Then again shooting through any window at an angle will also create distortion so I'd put the window up if I could.

Diana, as you guessed I think you'll find that the vertical excursions of the Citabria will make this pretty difficult. And to be safe you will need to be a long way from the photo plane since you probably won't be able to keep track of it's ever changing position while flying acro. A second set of eyes in the Citabria to help with that would definitely be desirable as would a third person in the photo plane to watch for the Citabria.

I also think this would be hopeless without optical image stabilization in the video camera. Even with that, managing to keep the Citabria in the center of the image will be quite challenging unless you are zoomed out so far that you won't be able to see much in the result. Unlike still photography, with video you cannot rely on a fast shutter speed to deal with camera to subject motion as the target will be jumping all over the screen. You probably should figure what is a safe distance for acro, go aloft and shoot some relatively benign maneuvers (Chandel, lazy 8, loop) and then check the results on the ground before you get into the difficult stuff, just to see if you can get decent images.

 

[poadeleted20]

One of the scariest videos I ever saw was extracted from the wreckage of a Navy A-7 which ran into the other A-7 the pilot was trying to videotape. In addition, I know of at least three fatal air-to-air photography accidents in the last few years. My suggestion is to leave this to those with the training to do it right, and that's not something you can get over the internet. Unless every pilot flying in the gaggle is a trained and qualified formation pilot, with a qualified flight lead in charge, please don't try this.

 

[Diana]

Her recovery has not been at all what we were led to believe!

Greg, check your PMs

 

[Diana]

Actually, I think they might give the video some personality, and some perspective. It'd also be rather interesting footage because on vertical maneuvers like hammerheads, the video plane will have to be well above the altitude of the subject plane. I think it's really cool to see other things flying below me. So, I can see how a 172 would fit really well with the kind of videos Diana makes - Videos with lots of personality and charm.

Thanks Kent, that is sweet.

I can't wait to see it! (And I'd love to fly one of the birds, if ya need another pilot... )

I'll let you know.

 

[Henning]

For those of you who have some experience with this, do you have any suggestions?

We will, of course, use all the normal safety precautions…the cameraman will not be the PIC, lots of distance between the aircraft (zoom is a wonderful feature), constant communication, lots of altitude, etc. I might even try to take an observer in the Citabria for an extra set of eyes if they promise not to get sick.

We made a lot of photo runs with a regular camera trying to get shots for the magazine article for Ken, but we haven’t done video yet.

The mission is to shoot some video of the Citabria doing aerobatics. The maneuvers with a lot of altitude changes (loops and hammers) might present the most challenges as to where the wing would be in the other airplane.

We have the option of using our old Skyhawk, but the windows have some scratches. Barb will loan us her Cessna 172 if we want to use it. I wonder if a low wing airplane would be better?

What are your thoughts and suggestions? Thanks!

Oy, it's complicated to do it well. You're best off with equal capability craft, then you have to rehearse the routine on the ground, we always used model planes to figure out where the camera ship had to be and set up for. Sometimes you have to fly the routine several times with the camera ship in various positions and transitions so you can edit it nicely into a good video. The lesser the capability of the camera ship, the more takes it requires. You also have to perform with regards to the sun, keeping it behind the camera unless you are looking for siluettes. Figure a good 15 minute video is going to take 3-4 days and 4-6 hrs of flying if you're doing it with one camera. 172 doesn't work well because of the strut. If I wasn't using a HP Acro ship, I'd be looking to use a 210 as light as I could get it for climbing ability. It's trick to do well, and has some hazards. You need to spend a good bit of time on the ground choreographing before you start shooting.

Good luck...

 

[Diana]

Oy, it's complicated to do it well. You're best off with equal capability craft, then you have to rehearse the routine on the ground, we always used model planes to figure out where the camera ship had to be and set up for. Sometimes you have to fly the routine several times with the camera ship in various positions and transitions so you can edit it nicely into a good video. The lesser the capability of the camera ship, the more takes it requires. You also have to perform with regards to the sun, keeping it behind the camera unless you are looking for siluettes. Figure a good 15 minute video is going to take 3-4 days and 4-6 hrs of flying if you're doing it with one camera. 172 doesn't work well because of the strut. If I wasn't using a HP Acro ship, I'd be looking to use a 210 as light as I could get it for climbing ability. It's trick to do well, and has some hazards. You need to spend a good bit of time on the ground choreographing before you start shooting.

Good luck...

Thanks for the insight Henning, I appreciate it. And yes, it will take a lot of time on the ground first.