Air to air pictures

bstratt

bstratt

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Canuck
I've got this space for a large picture in my office and I'd love to have a shot of my plane flying over the countryside like the ones they put on the cover of AOPA mag. I've no formation flight training and so was wondering if someone with a good zoom lense could take it (while we're maintaining ultra safe distances) or should I hire a professional?
 
if you want a good crisp picture (even semi calendar or magazine cover quality) youve got to get close. Zoom lenses magnify everything, including the small relative motions of the aircraft and the movement of the cameramans wrist.
 
bstratt said:
I've got this space for a large picture in my office and I'd love to have a shot of my plane flying over the countryside like the ones they put on the cover of AOPA mag. I've no formation flight training and so was wondering if someone with a good zoom lense could take it (while we're maintaining ultra safe distances) or should I hire a professional?
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Two problems with a zoom lens: You lose a lot of light, and it's very difficult to eliminate motion blur.

Professional aviation photogs like to use a slow enough shutter speed that the props don't stop (or better yet make a few complete revolutions during the exposure). That means that using a long enough lens to fill the frame with your airplane at a distance will likely produce enough blur from camera shake to be objectionable, especially if you enlarge the picture to wall hanging dimensions. But if you are OK with stopped props in the photo, a large diameter long lens coupled with a fast shutter speed might produce a useable result.

Then there's the question of what constitutes an "ultra safe distance". One of the biggest problems with formation flying is that it's very difficult to perceive closure rate when the planes are separated by more than a few wingspans so it's awful easy to lose that safe distance without realizing it.
 
Oh heck, just take a pic of your bird on the ground and one of the sky. You can shop the rest.
 
Barry, I'd say go for the 'formation' route. For your Arrow, find someone with a 172/182 that can fly lead. Just make sure that you are stepped down enough for the flight. It's not dangerous as long as you fully brief your flight, your 'outs', and you make it a disciplined flight.
 
Close formation is something you never want to do without very experienced pilots who understand formation flying, and thorough preparation. Cap'n Ron can chime in on this, as he has dealt with this issue in connection with the organized air-to-air photo shoots at AYA conventions.

There are companies that will make simulated "airborne" photos of your airplane from ground shots.

-- Pilawt
 
Instead of using a zoom lens use a fixed length lens of the desired length. Generally speaking the fixed length lens will provide better quality versus the zoom lens.

It used to be that a good, independently owned camera shop would have a selection of lenses for rent for the 35mm film format. Especially true if the camera body was Nikon. If you don't have a 35mm format camera perhaps you could rent one (or better yet) a larger film format camera with the right lens.

Perhaps Harley will chime in.

I'll leave the distance between aircraft and formation flight safety discussion to the Reverend Ron.

Len

P.S. Nothing against zoom lenses as I have a few of 'em for my old Nikon. They made great economical sense for a hobbiest photographer but I did buy an excellent Nikor 105mm specifically for head shots.
 
Where are you located again? I might be able to find you a few safety pilots.
 
Richard said:
Oh heck, just take a pic of your bird on the ground and one of the sky. You can shop the rest.
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Bingo! Easy enough to do for anyone with reasonable Photoshop skills.
 
AirBaker said:
Make it to Oshkosh and stop by the B2Osh group...

Let me see if I can find some locals out there.
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Won't be at Oshkosh this year as I'll be outof town. Thanks anyway.
 
Next time we get together for lunch or something, remind me to bring my camera. I snapped a few while flying. I can put it on SHQ and see what we get - and burn you a CD of it right there with my laptop.

Then if they are good enough, it's free. If not, well, it's free. LOL
 
Pilawt said:
Close formation is something you never want to do without very experienced pilots who understand formation flying, and thorough preparation. Cap'n Ron can chime in on this, as he has dealt with this issue in connection with the organized air-to-air photo shoots at AYA conventions.

There are companies that will make simulated "airborne" photos of your airplane from ground shots.

-- Pilawt
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Bah! I've flown formation with my plane and a Taylorcraft with no issues. Just make sure it is a STABLE air day when you do it. In our case it was a mega high pressure system over Saginaw Bay with winds of 0-4kts.
 
There's no such thing as a "safe" distance for two non-formation-qualified pilots to fly formation such that it's possible to take decent photos. If you want some background on that, find Julie Boatman's article on the subject in AOPA Pilot -- it's available on their web site. Before the AYA Board banned formation flying as an AYA-sponsored activity, there was a group of formation-qualified pilots which did aerial shots of members' planes at the convention every year with the formation pilot flying in the left seat and the owner observing in the right seat, but that's dead now. If you can't get qualified formation pilots for the shoot, go the Photoshop route.

Ron Levy
FFI-certified Flight Lead
 
It's amazing what you can acocmplish with image stabilization and a 500 mm F1.9 lens. But this stuff is relaly pricey. Go with the professional and 1/8 mile lateral separation. No formation flying for me.
 
bbchien said:
It's amazing what you can acocmplish with image stabilization and a 500 mm F1.9 lens. But this stuff is relaly pricey. Go with the professional and 1/8 mile lateral separation. No formation flying for me.
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George Lepp, an internationally known photographer, who lives in this area used to rent out the stabilizing gyros for such photo work. Perhaps there is somewhere in Chi town which rents that kind of equipment.

But for that kind of airwork, there better be a very in depth briefing for everyone involved.
 
Capturing stills off of gyro stabilized video footage will consistantly give the highest number of unique shots that are "just right", especially to the beginner in air to air photography.
 
Ron Levy said:
There's no such thing as a "safe" distance for two non-formation-qualified pilots to fly formation such that it's possible to take decent photos.
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I suggest a formation flying lesson. If it's like my first lesson it will demonstrate Ron's wisdom.

Joe

Edit (a little more detail): Collision avoidance procedures are NOT INTUITIVE!
 
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or learn to fly gliders. Not even the military does formation flight from a standing start, tethered :)
 
tonycondon said:
or learn to fly gliders. Not even the military does formation flight from a standing start, tethered :)
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Yeah but then again, the join up is done on the ground with zero airspeed:D. Seriously, I've been on both ends of the rope and there's a lot more to formation flying than what you learn flying gliders on tow (but that's worth doing anyway).
 
yea i was mostly kidding lance. i guess most of my formation experience hasnt really included a form up. usually its something like: glider off tow, pulls up next to towplane, snap a couple pictures, peel off. did fly a flight of two with another 172 once, but took off right after another and headed same direction, so it was mostly jsut catch up.
 
Areeda said:
I suggest a formation flying lesson. If it's like my first lesson it will demonstrate Ron's wisdom.

Joe

Edit (a little more detail): Collision avoidance procedures are NOT INTUITIVE!
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Now he tells me. We did a 12 Piper aircraft flight into Oshkosh.

Yes, it was a nightmare in spite of how much practice and briefing we did.

The joke is I talked to a B2OSH participant and he said they did their practice and planning about the same as how we did ours. :hairraise:
 
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Not unheard of...

The pre-jet Blue Angels use to do a tethered routine as did the pilots of the soon to be Eagles Aerobatic Team in Pitts. Several barnstormer acts of the 20's and 30's also performed tethered aircraft routines.

Account of 7 on a tether... http://perso.wanadoo.fr/joel.donnet/News77.htm

tonycondon said:
or learn to fly gliders. Not even the military does formation flight from a standing start, tethered :)
Click to expand...
 
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