Air Force kicks oldest GA club off base

Anthony

Anthony

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Anthony
More than a half century after the legendary Gen. Curtis LeMay created general aviation clubs within the U.S. Air Force, the club that led the way is packing up for departure from Wright-Patterson Air Force Base—located on the birthplace of aviation, Dayton, Ohio.
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Why would the base commander, Col. Amanda Gadney do this? The artical doesn't say what the motivation was. Liability? It doesn't sound like a cost saving issue as the Club MADE money. PC move?

http://www.aopa.org/aircraft/articles/2012/120523air-force-kicks-oldest-ga-club-off-base.html

Colonel Gladney is a 1988 graduate of the U. S. Air Force Academy. A career communications and information systems officer
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:rolleyes:

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/library/biographies/bio.asp?id=13307
 
Anthony said:
Why would the base commander, Col. Amanda Gadney do this? The artical doesn't say what the motivation was. Liability? It doesn't sound like a cost saving issue as the Club MADE money. PC move?

http://www.aopa.org/aircraft/articles/2012/120523air-force-kicks-oldest-ga-club-off-base.html

:rolleyes:

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/library/biographies/bio.asp?id=13307
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That is surprising.

Perhaps someone was looking ahead at upcoming repairs/upgrades being required as well as likely flying hour reductions due to fuel costs.

Maybe it's an image thing - viewed as a perk, an extravagance with relatively little active duty participation.

If WPAFB loses their flight training center, I wonder if other bases/facilities will also.
 
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I didn't read the article, but my experience with USAF flying clubs is they are in fact a dying breed. It's not so much a money issue as it is a safety/liability issue. If I remember correctly, the airplanes are purchased/maintained/operated with Non-Appropriated Funds. That measn they have N-Numbers, but are still USAF assets. Also, when an incident happens, the Wing Commander is still briefed by WG Safety and is accountable just like it was one of the primary mission aircraft. When I was in Alaska I worked for WG Safety and we did routine inspections of the Aero Club and when we had an airplane overrun an icy runway, the Boss was still briefed and an investigation launched. Long story short, the mentality these days is if it doesn't contribute to the mission, it's gotta go. Sad but true.

EDIT: I just read the article, and I think the retired Col. may be on to something. Kinda sounds like the Boss wanted to change something for the sake of change. Standard Big Blue these day, unfortunately.
 
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Doesn't fostering and environment of flying add to the mission? It just shows me that aviation is no longer the core mission of the Air Force. Technology, and intel is now the mission. I guess when you are going to be flying only UAV's that's OK.
 
Anthony said:
Why would the base commander, Col. Amanda Gadney do this? The artical doesn't say what the motivation was. Liability? It doesn't sound like a cost saving issue as the Club MADE money. PC move?
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I've been a member of three USAF aero clubs; two of them on base and one operated from the local GA airport. Operating on the base has more pains than perks.
 
Besides, pretty soon more Air Force personnel will fly toys than real aircraft. They should set up RC clubs.
 
I tried to start a flying club at Plattsburgh, AFB back in the 1980's. I jumped through all the hoops, had the aircraft lined up, the money appropriated, the members signed up, and the Base Commander's approval :thumbsup:. Then the SAC Wing Commander put the KABASH on the whole deal...:fingerwag:

Back in those days, SAC ruled!:crazy:
 
FlySince9 said:
I tried to start a flying club at Plattsburgh, AFB back in the 1980's. I jumped through all the hoops, had the aircraft lined up, the money appropriated, the members signed up, and the Base Commander's approval :thumbsup:. Then the SAC Wing Commander put the KABASH on the whole deal...:fingerwag:

Back in those days, SAC ruled!:crazy:
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Did you look into basing at Clinton County Airport?
 
C'Ron and I were both members of the APG flying club (at different times). I believe that one is gone to. The level of bureaucracy was HIGH even when it was operating. You had the worst of the MILITARY and the federal CIVILIAN stuff to go through coupled with the goofball contracted out tower a Phillips made it a real pain.

The other problem is that with owned assets the government doesn't much believe in insurance, so if someone dings a plane (or in our case got wiped out on the ground by a tornado), they tend not to get replaced.
 
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Anthony said:
Doesn't fostering and environment of flying add to the mission? It just shows me that aviation is no longer the core mission of the Air Force. Technology, and intel is now the mission. I guess when you are going to be flying only UAV's that's OK.
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The second part of your statement holds more truth in todays Air Force than you know. I'm an aviator at heart, and am lucky to have one of the few enlisted flying jobs that has a window seat up front. We have many Airmen today that can't tell the difference between a C-5 and a B-52. Kinda sad.
 
I'm in the Navy Flying Club at NAS Jacksonville, and they are having a tough time as well. Apparently, the flying club used to be its own entity, but after the events of 2001, it has been rolled into the MWR side of the house and things have steadily gone downhill since then. It's hard for the club to get the MWR people to give up funds for the club. I don't think the club is losing money so much as the MWR people have other priorities for their funds. Also, while everything is peachy once you get into the club, getting in can be a real pain. Not so much becoming a member, but the red tape required to gain access to the flight line (or even get on the base if, like me, you're not active/retired military).
 
Did I read the base commander's bio correctly? She's never flown an aircraft?
 
AWACSEng said:
The second part of your statement holds more truth in todays Air Force than you know. I'm an aviator at heart, and am lucky to have one of the few enlisted flying jobs that has a window seat up front. We have many Airmen today that can't tell the difference between a C-5 and a B-52. Kinda sad.
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That is sad. You may be able to put this base commander in that category, as her bio reads more like a government bureaucrat than military commander.
 
steingar said:
Besides, pretty soon more Air Force personnel will fly toys than real aircraft. They should set up RC clubs.
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:rofl: :yeahthat:

Buckley closed their Aero Club in the early 90's when it was still an COWG ANG base. The aircraft were put up for closed-bid government auction, including a cherry l60s C-150 with skylights and a brand new engine that had just been hung on it, new tires, good paint, always hangared (!), nice avionics. I think it was a 150E with the last year of the straight tail.

A friend and I bid on it at $10,500 and missed it by $500. Someone got a sweet airplane. We were young and broke and it would have virtually bankrupted us at the time but we knew no one was paying attention to the auction for the little C-150.
 
Kelly AFB had a great aeroclub and had just gotten brand new 172s. Lackland AFB absorbed Kelly and the new base commander didn't want the added responsibility so adios. Just one more benefit gone because some ground hugging careerist didn't see it as benefiting his promotion folder. Look in most Air Force BX magazine racks and you'll be hard pressed to find any flying magazines.
 
I finished my PPL at the WPAFB aeroclub, and as a former member, I don't see this really as such a bad thing.

Check out what Joe posted on the aeroclub website:

http://www.wpafbaeroclub.com/transfer.php

The facilities at Wright Pat were really in poor shape. On top of that, the pre-flight hassles and bureaucracy that accompanied each flight were a real pain.

The best parts of the club (the people) will be moving to I19. The aircraft were nicely maintained too, but at least someone will get them.
 
roncachamp said:
I've been a member of three USAF aero clubs; two of them on base and one operated from the local GA airport. Operating on the base has more pains than perks.
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FlySince9 said:
At the time, I did. I don't remember why, but they wouldn't allow that either, at the time...
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Nav8tor from this board was a member of the Aero club at NAS thne JRB Willow Grove. When the base was decommissioned the club shut down and the planes sold off or transferred to another NAS. The base still has some ANG and other units there so I asked if the club might not relocate to Wings Field as it is very close by. Apparently the word was that since the planes were Navy property they had to stay on a base.

This is sad from a historical perspective but I guess the one silver lining is that perhaps it will pump more life and dollars in to the local GA community and keep a local GA airport active.
 
That may be Adam, or it could have an opposite effect. Since Aero Clubs are often cheaper to fly with, the move to civil GA operations may keep people out of the cockpit. I guess if people want to fly bad enough, they will find a way. But this may run off someone who was on the fence about flying long term.
 
AWACSEng said:
That may be Adam, or it could have an opposite effect. Since Aero Clubs are often cheaper to fly with, the move to civil GA operations may keep people out of the cockpit. I guess if people want to fly bad enough, they will find a way. But this may run off someone who was on the fence about flying long term.
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Could be Bill. Certainly not a good situation.
 
So if the UAV guys have an RC club on base, and it meets on the golf course, and a ball hits an RC airplane...?
 
I learned to fly at Maxwell Air Force Base Aero Club as a college student dependent on my dad who worked on base. There is a young person out there who will not learn to fly now. I guess I was a lucky one. You'd think the Air Force would encourage...flying?
 
I realize this is an older post; but, this is what has happened with USAF Aero Clubs worldwide. I was retiring from the USAF in 1995 and was hired on at the Ramstein AB Germany Aero Club as the A&P Mechanic. Rumor started the Aero Club was going to close and by January 1996 it was gone. What had happened was USAF Services had oversight of all (NAF) Non-Appropriated Fund operation on the bases. These included the Officer Club, NCO Clubs, Bowling alleys, Rod and Gun clubs, Wood Hobby and Auto Hobby Shops, etc. Long story short the USAF Services General at the time, saw some NAF organizations were not making sufficient funds to sustain their cost of operation. In a commit about looking into closing or shutting down NAF organization that were in financial trouble, the General made the statement ‘like our bowling alleys and aero clubs’. This statement was just enough fuel to flammed the fire to close the Aero Clubs on USAF Air Bases. The General mentioned was there were flight schools at off base airports to support the 'few' Airmen that wanted to learn to fly (Ramstein AB had over 100 members in their club when it closed). Behind the scenes though, Aero Clubs were making money; but, their profits were being skimmed by USAF Service NAF and funneled to pay for other operations i.e “Officers Club” that always operated in the red. The Aero Club also was under control of the Base Commander who in most cases were not aviation savvy and had no idea or any interest in aviation and found the Aero Clubs to be a thorn in their side.
 
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I guess Dover AFB Aero Club may be an exeception to most. Our club has had minimal issues with getting funding, in fact three aircraft are getting upgrades currently ( 1 G430w, 1G530w & single axis A/P, 1 new transponder).
 
I don't think there are any Army aero clubs left. They closed about the same time- after the first Gulf War. It was also strange as they were operating in the black.
 
Blackhawk said:
I don't think there are any Army aero clubs left. They closed about the same time- after the first Gulf War. It was also strange as they were operating in the black.
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AFIK Redstone Arsenal is still going strong. I think Warner Robbins is going - still had GA aircraft parked there a month or so ago when I drove by.
 
EdLarkin said:
AFIK Redstone Arsenal is still going strong. I think Warner Robbins is going - still had GA aircraft parked there a month or so ago when I drove by.
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Warner Robins not Army.
Still, good to see a few are left. Any stateside aside from Redstone?
 
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