AF1 NYC photo op- fail!

Re: AF1 phot op- fail!

What a sad, scarred, little nation we are today. :(
 
Re: AF1 phot op- fail!

People are stupid.

AF1 plus fighter jets = ?

Oh, of course - TERRORISM. How? Dunno. But definitely TERRORISM!!!!

Don't give me the "you weren't in NYC on 9/11, you just don't understand!!!"

I understand plenty. People are stupid.

Sorry to put a little SZ edge on this, but I just can't believe how many Chicken Littles there are running around.
 
Re: AF1 phot op- fail!

People are stupid.

AF1 plus fighter jets = ?

Oh, of course - TERRORISM. How? Dunno. But definitely TERRORISM!!!!

Don't give me the "you weren't in NYC on 9/11, you just don't understand!!!"

I understand plenty. People are stupid.

Sorry to put a little SZ edge on this, but I just can't believe how many Chicken Littles there are running around.
While all this may be true, it was also stupid not to let the public know. People are scared by the unknown or unexpected and that's also how rumors get started.
 
Re: AF1 phot op- fail!

While all this may be true, it was also stupid not to let the public know. People are scared by the unknown or unexpected and that's also how rumors get started.

And what if it were United Airlines instead doing a photoshoot? Any particular reason they should have to request permission to fly VFR, even in the vicinity of Manhattan? It's a pretty short step from there to anyone else needing to request permission to depart VFR.
 
Re: AF1 phot op- fail!

And what if it were United Airlines instead doing a photoshoot? Any particular reason they should have to request permission to fly VFR, even in the vicinity of Manhattan? It's a pretty short step from there to anyone else needing to request permission to depart VFR.
I didn't say anything about requesting permission. It probably would be a good idea to notify the pubic though, through a press release or something. I would see this as being a friendly neighbor and CYA. Suppose it caused a panic and someone got hurt. You can be sure they would be suing the airline.
 
Re: AF1 phot op- fail!

Let S0 represent the level of stupidity needed to think "airliner, flying low over Manhattan, chased by a military jet = something bad going down".

Let S1 represent the level of stupidity needed to think that the above event wouldn't generate any concern among the populace.

I would argue that S1 > S0.
-harry
 
Re: AF1 phot op- fail!

attachment.php


Ooooooooo, now BHO violated a TFR!

Maybe he'll get when we write now? :dunno:

What gets me about this, like with Boston and the light brite panics, it's "You morons scared the public!" when it should be "You morons in the public have no reason to be scared!" :mad3:
 

Attachments

  • 46535375.jpg
    46535375.jpg
    40.1 KB · Views: 327
Re: AF1 phot op- fail!

attachment.php

So here's the true story:

Barack Obama is a Muslim, everyone knows that. Being as such, he must also be a terrorist, since everyone knows that Muslims are terrorists.

So the obvious story is that he hijacked AF1, and missed the building in that photo. After missing, he realized he'd never get away with it, issued a press release that it was not really AF1 since he was "not" on board, and the coverup has begun.
 
Re: AF1 phot op- fail!

attachment.php

So here's the true story:

Barack Obama is a Muslim, everyone knows that. Being as such, he must also be a terrorist, since everyone knows that Muslims are terrorists.

So the obvious story is that he hijacked AF1, and missed the building in that photo. After missing, he realized he'd never get away with it, issued a press release that it was not really AF1 since he was "not" on board, and the coverup has begun.


Yeah, and who would put it beyond those wiley A-rabs that have highly trained sleeper cells everywhere and can make a bomb out of toilet paper and water to hijack a F-16.
 
We have idiots in charge.
At least the idiots recognized their faux pas and apologized.

NY Times said:
At 4:39 p.m. Monday, the White House issued an apology for the flyover. Louis E. Caldera, director of the White House Military Office, who served in the Clinton administration as secretary of the Army, said in a statement:
Last week, I approved a mission over New York. I take responsibility for that decision. While federal authorities took the proper steps to notify state and local authorities in New York and New Jersey, it’s clear that the mission created confusion and disruption. I apologize and take responsibility for any distress that flight caused.
The mission on Monday, officials said, was set up to create an iconic shot of Air Force One, similar to one that was taken in recent years over the Grand Canyon.

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/04/27/air-force-one-backup-rattles-new-york-nerve/
 
Re: AF1 phot op- fail!

And what if it were United Airlines instead doing a photoshoot? Any particular reason they should have to request permission to fly VFR, even in the vicinity of Manhattan? It's a pretty short step from there to anyone else needing to request permission to depart VFR.

I understand your point, but the airspace there where you would want to fly an airliner is class B, so United (or anyone else) would have to request permission to fly VFR in that area.
 
Isn't it funny that even though NY was officially notified Thursday, the word didn't get out. And how many believe, I mean truly believe, that if there was advanced media knowlege of the event that there wouldn't still be people believing the sky was falling or as Bloomburg implied, it was an idiotic thing to do.

Why the Defense Department wanted to do a photo-op right around the site of the World Trade Center catastrophe defies imagination. Poor judgment would be a nice ways to phrase it, but they did.

I think it worked just as TSA figured it would. Watch for more restrictions.
 
At least the idiots recognized their faux pas and apologized.
I realize they apologized. But, how dense do you have to be to not realize a low-flying airliner is going to get some serious attention, particularly in the very area that suffered attacks not historic enough in the hearts and minds of those living and working there?

Worse yet, these decisions were made in an area where idiot lawmakers and others ran from a small airplane just a few days before. Sorry, but this started with sheer incompetence.

It should have been a national press release.
 
I abhor Chicken Little-ism too, but as the woman says in the video as she's watching:

"This isn't normal. An airliner (she couldn't ID it as presidential transport) with a fighter... it must be a hijacking!"

That's pretty sound reasoning, especially if the last time you saw an airliner that low it was plowing into a building.

As for offices evacuating, etc... if you were at your desk in a hi-rise and saw that, especially if the last time you saw that it was plowing into a building, would you wait until someone checked with the FAA, or would you hit the stairs? If I were at the next desk, you wouldn't be able to ask me wat i think, because I'd be gone. :D

The jittery citizens of NYC do need educating about these things, but surprises are not the way to do it. Confirmation that the local rags and TV had picked up the word of this scheduled event early on, and that people in general were aware, would be a good start.
 
Wow...don't see too many real unequivocal apologies these days from those in the political world...mostly it's "I apologize if anyone took offense", not an actual "I screwed the pooch on this one, sorry." like that statement appears to be. Good on him.:cheers:

I dont know if "we did everything right, and even notified the proper people, but we're sorry if people were offended" qualifies as an unequivocal apology, but it was nice to at least mention it to the public.
 
Re: AF1 phot op- fail!

And what if it were United Airlines instead doing a photoshoot? Any particular reason they should have to request permission to fly VFR, even in the vicinity of Manhattan? It's a pretty short step from there to anyone else needing to request permission to depart VFR.

I understand your point, but the airspace there where you would want to fly an airliner is class B, so United (or anyone else) would have to request permission to fly VFR in that area.

I've never asked permission to enter class bravo airspace. I have, however, requested a clearance to enter class bravo when flying VFR. My CFI/DE made a point to clarify the distinction the first time we needed to fly through class bravo airspace. As he said, we request a clearance; we don't have to ask permission, yet.
 
Bunch of freshmen running the country these days.
 
Re: AF1 phot op- fail!

I've never asked permission to enter class bravo airspace. I have, however, requested a clearance to enter class bravo when flying VFR. My CFI/DE made a point to clarify the distinction the first time we needed to fly through class bravo airspace. As he said, we request a clearance; we don't have to ask permission, yet.
You're correct. However United airlines, nor anyone else, probably isn't flying around wherever thay want. I'm pretty sure thay can request a clearance for an area and altitude block for this sort of thing. The controller doesn't have to grant the clearance.
 
That's way over the top IMHO.
Not really. At least it would have been in the hands of area news outlets. Making it a national release would allow anyone to publish it. Selective release in only New York could be taken wrong.
 
From what I've read; the FAA and NYPD were informed but told not to release the info to the public.
Why couldn't there have been a generic release to the effect that a large plane accompanied by a fighter or two would be over the area, and why not on a Sunday morning or other off hours?

Best,

Dave
 
From what I've read; the FAA and NYPD were informed but told not to release the info to the public.
Why couldn't there have been a generic release to the effect that a large plane accompanied by a fighter or two would be over the area, and why not on a Sunday morning or other off hours?

:mad2: In all of their security paranoia they wanted AF1 to be safe while it was doing something to make the citizens think they weren't safe.

Monty Python.
 
If they were really smart they would have turned it into a photo-op/goodwill event where the public was encouraged to watch.
 
Someone send the White House photo folks a copy of Photoshop and we'll just call it a day.
 
I abhor Chicken Little-ism too, but as the woman says in the video as she's watching:

"This isn't normal. An airliner (she couldn't ID it as presidential transport) with a fighter... it must be a hijacking!"

That's pretty sound reasoning, especially if the last time you saw an airliner that low it was plowing into a building.

As for offices evacuating, etc... if you were at your desk in a hi-rise and saw that, especially if the last time you saw that it was plowing into a building, would you wait until someone checked with the FAA, or would you hit the stairs? If I were at the next desk, you wouldn't be able to ask me wat i think, because I'd be gone. :D

The jittery citizens of NYC do need educating about these things, but surprises are not the way to do it. Confirmation that the local rags and TV had picked up the word of this scheduled event early on, and that people in general were aware, would be a good start.


NO FOR CRYING OUT LOUD NO!!!!!

We have to stop equating "anything out of the normal" with "terrorism."

Sometimes, an airliner is just an airliner, to paraphrase Freud.

While I don't know why the Obama White House didn't issue a breathless press release saying "AF1 Coming to NYC airspace, watch it fly low and slow!!!!"......wait, I know why, because people would say "WHY IN THE F ARE YOU WASTING SEVERAL HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS IN THIS ECONOMY ON BOGUS PHOTO OP????!!!!"

Instead we get the Aqua Teen Hunger Force Brillite scare x 1000.

Stupid is as stupid does. There's enough stupidity here to fill Nebraska to a depth of 8".
 
I am glad they did it today, not Sunday. I flew the Hudson Corridor on Sunday and would have been just a bit freaked to see AF1 and one or more F16's directly overhead. I did get a preflight briefing and was told no TFRs but sure golly seeing AF1 so close while both in the air would be a Oh *hit moment!

I also heard the flyover, did not see it. For sure, an F16 doesn't sound like a 747. Lots of people will remember that sound from 9/11 and shortly thereafter. It was creepy hearing the F16's doing night patrols on 9/12 - 9/14, while in bed wondering what was going on. Instant recall of the noise when I heard it today. I too was wondering what was going on, but no, I wasn't panicked!

-Skip
 
A fellow who co-piloted my plane today lives just off Wall Street. He said he's very tired of
the continuing "keep it in the forefront" 911 references. Further, "they should give it a rest."

HR
 
NO FOR CRYING OUT LOUD NO!!!!!

We have to stop equating "anything out of the normal" with "terrorism."
Point taken, that applies to many, many situations nowadays (and it drives me batty too), but it wasn't just "anything out of the normal"- it was an airliner (again, most folks on the ground probably had no clue what airplane it was), maneuvering at a low altitude, on a path that is never taken by heavies operating near any of the three NYC-area airports... with a fighter formed up on it. Deducing that this may indicate a hijacking, and a potential threat to one's safety,is not silly or far-fetched, IMHO. Remember, now, some of the people who were, shall we say, not thrilled to see this were also eyewitnesses to, and maybe survivors of, "you know what".

If it happens for real someday and people are still alarmed, does that make them stupid? I mean, if an intercept of a hijacked airliner actually occurs over or near the city, how is the average Joe to distinguish between that and a promo event? Would it look different? Does the fighter have to splash the heavy in front of the whole city before anyone's allowed to assume the worst?

The other point, about citizens decrying what they see as a waste of tax money, is also understandable... but having also scared the bejeebers out of half the city, they just added insult to injury.
 
A fellow who co-piloted my plane today lives just off Wall Street. He said he's very tired of
the continuing "keep it in the forefront" 911 references. Further, "they should give it a rest."

HR
I know what he means, but there's useless or self-serving hand-wringing and fear-mongering, then there's remembrance and vigilance. As a "sort of" New Yorker, I don't get too worked up about it... until I see people smiling for photos in front of "the pit", as if it were merely a tourist attraction. It just bothers me, because people I know died there. I can tune out the rest of the "9/11 hysteria", but that makes my blood boil. :mad3:
 
No one gets all wigged out when a large rental van drives down the streets of NY or DC for that matter. Remember that was Tim McVey's vehicle of choice. People should be more scared of tandem 18 wheelers or gasoline tankers but we don't see restrictions for those.
Someone drives a car into a building, no one seems to call for banning them. Nor do you hear the NIMBYs screaming "I knew this would happen." All this panic is misdirected, fueled by the media and government.
Indeed, sometimes an airplane is just an airplane.
 
No one gets all wigged out when a large rental van drives down the streets of NY or DC for that matter

I will agree that a large rental van is more of a threat then a GA plane but a 747? Come on why would there be a low flying 747 folowed by a F16? This is not something you see every day. In fact it is something I have never seen.
 
If they were really smart they would have turned it into a photo-op/goodwill event where the public was encouraged to watch.
I disagree.

If they were really smart they would not have wasted thousands of dollars on a publicity stunt to get photos and instead bought a copy of Adobe Photoshop and made the pictures on a computer by employing some college intern. Thus saving the public big bucks and avoiding a controversy!
 
I disagree.

If they were really smart they would not have wasted thousands of dollars on a publicity stunt to get photos and instead bought a copy of Adobe Photoshop and made the pictures on a computer by employing some college intern. Thus saving the public big bucks and avoiding a controversy!

Falsifying documents. Proof of corruption at the highest levels. :rofl:
 
From what I've read; the FAA and NYPD were informed but told not to release the info to the public.
Why couldn't there have been a generic release to the effect that a large plane accompanied by a fighter or two would be over the area, and why not on a Sunday morning or other off hours?

Best,

Dave


This is SD08-F all over again.. Don't tell the people who really need to know. Their agenda is to scare the masses to institute tighter regs for GA..
DHS hates it when we have the ability to fly places without having to beg to go and get their blessing to fly....

Now back to the regularly scheduled governmental BS..:yikes:
 
Back
Top