Aerostar

gibbons

gibbons

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I've been thinking about getting rid of the Bonanza and getting something a bit faster. The Aerostar looks interesting but I really don't know much about them. I've been doing research but would welcome any tails of direct experience any of you have.

Thanks.
 
gibbons said:
I've been thinking about getting rid of the Bonanza and getting something a bit faster. The Aerostar looks interesting but I really don't know much about them. I've been doing research but would welcome any tails of direct experience any of you have.
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Chip, call Aerotech Services, Smoketown Airport, and ask to speak to Mike Kuhn, Terry Phillips, or Matt (last name I can't remember right now). Mike ran a charter business for many years based on Aerostars. He sold the business to Terry and Matt, who continue to use Aerostars, and Mike continues to fly a personal aerostar. If it can happen in or to an Aerostar those three have probably seen it at least once. I'd start with Mike because you can't get him to quit talking and he's much like Marty M.--he'll tell you the stuff you need to know but don't want to hear. Terry would be my second choice as he's the more talkative of the two current owners (at least around me he is).
 
Chip,

I have a friend that has one. Sold his Baron. He likes it, but parts and service knowledge can be an issue. He's in Nebraska.

Touchy on W&B, complex fuel system (electric valves), a few oddities. But fast.

He's owned a Merlin, a Bo, a Baron, a Seneca, and a Beech 18....
 
wsuffa said:
Chip,

I have a friend that has one. Sold his Baron. He likes it, but parts and service knowledge can be an issue. He's in Nebraska.

Touchy on W&B, complex fuel system (electric valves), a few oddities. But fast.

He's owned a Merlin, a Bo, a Baron, a Seneca, and a Beech 18....
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...sounds like this dude's crafted of cash anyway!
 
SCCutler said:
...sounds like this dude's crafted of cash anyway!
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And with an Aerostar, he'd better be. Very capable aircraft though. I remember seeing them operate out of Smoketown that Ed Guthrie mentioned. And Smoketown (S37) is only 2,400 ft.
 
SCCutler said:
...sounds like this dude's crafted of cash anyway!
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Well, he did sell a company that he owned.....

He said the most comfortable plane he owned was the Seneca.

He said the worst was the Merlin.

And nothing could haul weight like the BE-18. And nothing, but nothing, sounded as good as the 18!
 
Chip:

It certainly is personal preference.

I looked at the C-340; Aerostar and P-Baron after determining I wanted a pressurized twin. All nice birds. Did a lot of comparisons. Good friend has a 340; guy across from me had a completely redone Aerostar and was able to fly the P-Baron.

My thoughts are the C-340 is the most comfortable as far as being able to move about the cabin. Lots of panel space. Very complex fuel system that has caused more than one accident. Having most of my time in Beechcraft, probably steered me away. It's a Cessna product and if that's your cats meow, great.

Both the Cessna and Baron had great parts availability and plenty of experienced folks to work on the plane. Aerostar thinned out here. A mentor, who was involved in the design of the Aeorstar as a young man, cautioned me that dispatchibility is a priority for me. Reminded me of the couple times I had a problem in the A-36 and how easy it was to get parts and find a mechanic--even on Christmas Eve couple years ago; cautioned me things were much thinner for the Aerostar.

The Aerostar certainly was faster. As you know, it's got some Piper characteristics. I know the TCM engine and would have a disadvantage with the Lycoming. I didn't like where the door was--just me. Slick plane that a lot of folks really like.

The insurance folks had a say in things for me. Staying Beech was easier and a little more affordable.

In the end, most of the decision to me is what you've been flying and what you like. All three of these birds have a place.

I'm tickled pink with the P-Baron, but certainly respect others that like the other brands as much or more and could see myself getting one if the circumstances were right.

Best,

Dave
 
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gibbons said:
I've been thinking about getting rid of the Bonanza and getting something a bit faster. The Aerostar looks interesting but I really don't know much about them. I've been doing research but would welcome any tails of direct experience any of you have.

Thanks.
Click to expand...

I like them and came close to buying one about three years ago, before I came to my senses. They're ungodly expensive to operate - probably $450/hr. when all's said and done. (I figure my little TwinCo costs around $110/hr.)

The Aerostar is not an airplane you can own and fly casually. The training commitment needs to be there. I wouldn't own one unless I flew it a couple of hundred hours or more per year. I consider it "capable," too, but with limits. The main thing it's capable of doing is going very fast. It's not good at much else.

It's got a reputation for dismembering pilots. Keep that in mind.

The maintenance issues can hurt your dispatch reliability. You have to enjoy messing with the thing alot of the time, like a boat.

One of the other deal killers for me was recognizing that it was truly a five seat airplane. I needed six to sort-of justify the added expense. Add twin turbos (per engine) to the deal and it just seemed like too big of a headache, even if $$ wasn't the main barrier.

If I had the cash and good mx nearby, and the other caveats noted above weren't a problem, it's a neat airplane, probably my favorite piston twin. It's got some balls.

-Ryan
 
I've got a fair amount of time in the 600 series Aerostar (no turbos, unpressurized). The company I work for flew Aerostars for a long time. I flew them on line, instructed in them, and was a check airman in the Aerostar. It is a great airplane to fly but probably one of the most demanding airplanes I have ever flown. You need to stay very proficient to fly one well.

I don't really agree with the earlier comment of the Aerostar having Piper characteristics. This was never really a Piper aircraft. Piper did buy the rights but it is very much a Ted Smith airplane. It has pushrod controls all the way around. Very tight and responsive. As others have mentioned the systems are a bit unusual for a piston twin. The wings have very little dihedral (2 degrees) and can there unport easily. To prevent this the wings drain into a fuselage tank which feeds the engines. However, if you fly uncoordinated you will end up with a fuel imbalance. This is the only plane I'm aware of with a AFM procedure for double cross-feed.

Originally, the plane came with one hydraulic pump on the right engine. If the right engine failed after takeoff but before gear retraction the AFM required windmilling the right engine for 8 seconds to retract the gear. I think that all of the airplanes now have an electric backup pump but you get the picture on some of the system oddities.

Takeoffs are not a strong point of the Aerostar. The wing is essentially a jet airfoil (read this as needs some speed to perform). As such, on takeoff you lift the nose and then let the aircraft roll on the mains until it reaches flying speed. If you wait to rotate you discover a tendency to overrotate and usually don't do this many times. Once you get some speed on the wings the Aerostar performs well.

I really loved flying the Aerostars but we finally had to get rid of them due to the rising cost of maintaining them.

If you want more info let me know but thought I would give some first hand experience.

Quinn
ATP-CFI-CFII-MEI
 
Thanks for all of the great responses. When we owned the P-Baron we hated the low dispatch rate (of our particular airplane). Insurance and fuel are always issues and we know that the faster you go the more it costs per knot. More research is in order, but your comments are well received and very much appreciated.
 
Ed Guthrie said:
Chip, call Aerotech Services, Smoketown Airport, and ask to speak to Mike Kuhn, Terry Phillips, or Matt (last name I can't remember right now). Mike ran a charter business for many years based on Aerostars. He sold the business to Terry and Matt, who continue to use Aerostars, and Mike continues to fly a personal aerostar. If it can happen in or to an Aerostar those three have probably seen it at least once. I'd start with Mike because you can't get him to quit talking and he's much like Marty M.--he'll tell you the stuff you need to know but don't want to hear. Terry would be my second choice as he's the more talkative of the two current owners (at least around me he is).
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Matt Kauffman is the other partner, and probably the one I deal with most often. These are the folks I rent from.

I have a bit of unlogged time at the controls of one of these. Very nice handling aircraft, sporty, light controls, fast. My wife swears this is what she wants to fly some day. After we win the lottery I suppose.

They may be pilot killers, but, knock on wood, Aerotech has had good luck with theirs over the years. And they can definitely tell you anything you want to know.

Matt can be reached at Mkauffman@aerotechservices.com. If you email him, tell him Jim Gratton referred you.

Jim G
 
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I don't really agree with the earlier comment of the Aerostar having Piper characteristics. This was never really a Piper aircraft. Piper did buy the rights but it is very much a Ted Smith airplane.

Great comments. I didn't word that as well as I could have. When I was looking into it, a lot of the support for the plane seemed to be through Piper. That was the association I was trying to point out.

Best,

Dave
 
A narrow tube with two knife blades for wings and two really powerful engines -- imagine a twin Extra 300 with a lot of very complicated systems thrown in. Like your Extra, mucho performance, but you gotta be good, smart, and quick -- no room for dilettantes.
 
Ron Levy said:
A narrow tube with two knife blades for wings and two really powerful engines -- imagine a twin Extra 300 with a lot of very complicated systems thrown in. Like your Extra, mucho performance, but you gotta be good, smart, and quick -- no room for dilettantes.
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Let me re-relate a story that happened here in the Springfield FSDO. A young man was taking a 135 ride at the FSDO in a 601. He did the tasks and on downwind offered the landing to the FSDO inspector. The FSDO inspector recalled saying "my bird". The candidate pulled the fuel on the left engine. In the ensuing chaos the examiner cobbed the good engine, got the correct one feathered, brought the bird around and landed. Problem: neither pilot remembered to put out the gear.

Outcome: FSDO examiner is no longer at the FSDO. Candidate had all his certificates busted, eventually reapplying over three years and winning them all back, but isn't getting hired (no duh!).

It's a high workload environment and isn't very forgiving.
 
bbchien said:
It's a high workload environment and isn't very forgiving.
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Being almost completely ignorant as far as multi-engine operation is concerned, is it a wing/power loading issue that makes the Aerostar a handful? I've often read the same things about the Martin B-26 Marauder during WWII. Lots of co-pilots that couldn't get checked out in the left seat.
 
grattonja said:
Matt Kauffman is the other partner, and probably the one I deal with most often. These are the folks I rent from.

I have a bit of unlogged time at the controls of one of these. Very nice handling aircraft, sporty, light controls, fast. My wife swears this is what she wants to fly some day. After we win the lottery I suppose.

They may be pilot killers, but, knock on wood, Aerotech has had good luck with theirs over the years. And they can definitely tell you anything you want to know.

Matt can be reached at Mkauffman@aerotechservices.com. If you email him, tell him Jim Gratton referred you.

Jim G
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Matt & Terry are trying to convince me to go into a partnership with them in one of their Aerostars when I have enough hours to be insurable in one. They tell me the cost of maintenance isn't quite as bad as the Aztec most of the time, and, although it burns more fuel per hour, it goes faster, which fairly evens the fuel burn out with the Aztec. The insurance, though, would be the big killer for me. Proficiency would be something for me to consider. Speed would be great though.
I have a very small amount of time in one, and it is fun to fly. Not a very good short field performer though, of course, neither is the Tiger.
 
Steve said:
btw, Alan and Mark Henley, of Aeroshell Team fame, use to fly an Aerostar off the same 1800' grass strip they fly the family P-51 from in Geiger, AL.
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Oh, it can be done. The Aerotech Services Aerostars are regularly operated in and out of Smoketown's 2400', but they do it only at low gross weights, and then avoid the uphill & obstructed directon on take-off, and avoid the downhill direction on landing unless the wind is really blowing.
 
Ed Guthrie said:
Oh, it can be done. The Aerotech Services Aerostars are regularly operated in and out of Smoketown's 2400', but they do it only at low gross weights, and then avoid the uphill & obstructed directon on take-off, and avoid the downhill direction on landing unless the wind is really blowing.
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Ya, you need to watch the loading:

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20040809X01174&key=1
 
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