Aerial Firefighting

acropilot

acropilot

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acropilot
I was just wondering if anyone here has any experience in aerial firefighting... fixed-wing or rotor... I have looked at the US Forest Service website, but can't seem to find any info as to how to get involved. As a pilot building hours, I am looking for potential future employment and had some questions...

-What is the best way to become an aerial firefighter?
-Which way gives you a better chance?... fixed-wing or helicopter
-What jobs are available (entry level... what can you work up to)
-What other aviation related jobs are there (I have an Aviation Management degree).
-Where would you go for training?

Thanks!
 
Thanks, I've checked out that website before, but the forums don't appear to be very active and I am having a hard time finding the info I'm looking for.
 
acropilot said:
-What is the best way to become an aerial firefighter?
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The few folks I have met doing this are spray pilots the rest of the year.




Most of the planes are not directly operated by the forest service but rather contracted from private companies that specialize in this line of business. The service has minimum qualifications for the contractors. This is a whole buerocracy unto itself that deals with supervising everything and anything and more people to supervise the supervisors.

Here is a list of the policies ;) Isn't it grand if the federal goverment 'manages' something:

· Aircraft Inspection Guide
· Forest Service Accident Investigation Guide
· Helicopter Flight Evaluation Guide (HFEG)
· Interagency Aviation Mishap Response Guide and Checklist
· Interagency Aviation Training Guide (IAT)
· Interagency Smokejumper Operations Guide (ISMOG)
· Interagency Smokejumper Pilots Operations Guide (ISPOG)
· National Interagency Mobilization Guide
· Interagency Helicopter Operations Guide (IHOG)
· Interagency Airspace Coordination Guide (IACG)
· Interagency Aviation Hazardous Materials Guide
· Interagency Aerial Ignition Guide (IAIG)
· Interagency Helicopter Rappel Guide (IHRG)
· Interagency Aerial Supervision Guide (IASG)
· Interagency Airtanker Base Operations Guide (IABOG)
· Interagency Single Engine Air Tanker Operations Guide (ISOG)
· Professional Helicopter Pilot Guide
· Interagency System Safety Aviation Guide
· NASF Cooperators Aviation Standards for Interagency Fire
· Interagency Aviation Transport of Hazardous Materials Handbook
· Military Use Handbook
Regional Supplement:

Forest Supplement:



You may actually manage to leverage your management degree into becoming a paper-pusher, either for the feds or for one of the companies and weasel your way into a flying position from there.

Most of the companies that do this on behalf of the feds also contract with individual states, provinces or paper companies.

There are a few flying jobs directly with the forest service. Here are the hiring requirements for the direct federal jobs:

Total Time 1,200
Pilot-in-command 250
Multi-engine 100
IFR/Night 100
Last 12 Months 100

As they are GS type federal jobs, I doubt that anyone without significant military, border patrol or other federal seniority would have a shot at getting in (lateral entry).
 
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acropilot said:
I was just wondering if anyone here has any experience in aerial firefighting... fixed-wing or rotor... I have looked at the US Forest Service website, but can't seem to find any info as to how to get involved. As a pilot building hours, I am looking for potential future employment and had some questions...


Thanks!
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Well, not as a pilot, but until somewhat recently I was a call-when-needed helicopter manager for wildland fire.

Before I answer any of your questions can I safely assume that you mean to work yourself up to pilot?

The vast majority of firefighting aircraft are private vendors, with the state of California being a notable exception.

Almost every helicopter pilot I ever worked with on a fire spent a lot of time logging in the off-season and/or before they ever attempted fire work.

The SEAT boys are ag pilots outside the fire season.
 
I am pretty sure that CalFire's fixed-wing aircraft (S-2T air tankers and )OV-10 air attack) are flown by DynCorp pilots on contract. Their helos are flown by firefighters.
 
AuntPeggy said:
Is there anything bold and adventuresome that Henning hasn't done?
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I remember several years ago seeing a guy rescuing/docking a sailboat, on the national news, in a hurricane. I thought, "that guy is either nuts, brave or both!"

Yep, it was Henning.
 
There are a lot more helos flying than fixed wing. After the problems with old C130s and PB4Ys there are only a handful of large airtankers left, P2Vs and P3s. You have to get on with one of the companies that own them which likely will require high multi time and probably make and model. Most of the pilots I met were ex military or civilian with lots of multi-engine (not light twin) pistion experience.

The Forest Service doesn't contract for SEATs. States or the BLM. Colorado has several, one is based at my airport (FNL).

Due to the shortage, helos are used more expecially large ones. But again these pilots have lots of turbine time usually military.

Most Forest Service pilots are under the fire/leo retirement system so must start work before age 35. There are a few non fire jobs doing disease mapping, animal surveys, etc but most of this work is contracted. Even if the government own the plane they will contrat the pilot for the season. The was one photo ship left, a King Air A100 and a couple of infra red jets for fire mapping when I retired a year ago. I don't know what they are using for lead planes now. The P-barons were all retired and they were leasing King Airs but talking about Citations. Permanent Government pilot jobs will be filled through http://www.usajobs.gov/
 
Anthony said:
I remember several years ago seeing a guy rescuing/docking a sailboat, on the national news, in a hurricane. I thought, "that guy is either nuts, brave or both!"

Yep, it was Henning.
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I think it was a motor yacht. In the intracoastal between Palm Beach and West Palm Beach. I remember seeing and thinking the same thing. Seems to me he said it had an engine failure during the adventure, too.
 
Anthony said:
I remember several years ago seeing a guy rescuing/docking a sailboat, on the national news, in a hurricane. I thought, "that guy is either nuts, brave or both!"

Yep, it was Henning.
Click to expand...

I want to be Henning when I grow up. :wink2:

Bob Gardner
 
ejensen said:
Most Forest Service pilots are under the fire/leo retirement system so must start work before age 35. There are a few non fire jobs doing disease mapping, animal surveys, etc but most of this work is contracted. Even if the government own the plane they will contrat the pilot for the season. The was one photo ship left, a King Air A100 and a couple of infra red jets for fire mapping when I retired a year ago. I don't know what they are using for lead planes now. The P-barons were all retired and they were leasing King Airs but talking about Citations. Permanent Government pilot jobs will be filled through http://www.usajobs.gov/
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I tried to get a leadplane pilot job back when they were using Barons but by the time I had enough multi time I was too old. :cryin:
 
Everskyward said:
I tried to get a leadplane pilot job back when they were using Barons but by the time I had enough multi time I was too old. :cryin:
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Years ago they were short pilots and started an ab initio program at Boise. I was too old also.:sad:
 
A picture of the work.
 

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I was in Gunnison (or was it Durango?) about 10 years ago and they were using this as a leadplane. That was when I decided I wanted a PC-7.
 

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bobmrg said:
I want to be Henning when I grow up. :wink2:

Bob Gardner
Click to expand...

Chuck Norris wanted to keep making episodes of Walker-Texas Ranger, but Henning told him no.
 
The Forest Service is considering moving to a King Air fleet for lead planes, spotting and air attack. The DOI on the other hand is interested in and currently evaluating the PC-12. Imagine that. Two different aircraft for the same exact mission ;)
 
alaskaflyer said:
The Forest Service is considering moving to a King Air fleet for lead planes, spotting and air attack. The DOI on the other hand is interested in and currently evaluating the PC-12. Imagine that. Two different aircraft for the same exact mission ;)
Click to expand...

And each agency arrives at their conclusion after a multi-year multi-million $$ evaluation program :wink2: .
 
counting my pocket change while oggling the photos ... I'm coming up just a little short of the assumed asking price ... what was the old Roy Clark quote "If ferry rides were a nickle, all I could do was run up and down the dock hollerin' 'ain't that cheap!' "
 
If you want to fly SEAT, you need to get yourself into the right place at the right time. Usually that would be an ag-pilot job very close to a national forest.

I got the forest service certificate, first level, and made one actual fire drop. Right after that the forest service decided that some planes are just to small and underpowered for loaded canyon flying in summer heat above 5,000' MSL. With my one drop of experience, I agree with the forest service. We had an AirTractor 301 at the time.

The first level certificate allows a pilot into a fire if he is in communication with the fire boss on the ground. Next level of certificate allows a first response with no fire boss. That level comes after quite a bit of supervised experience.

Training for the first level consisted of some classroom work with the forest service fire boss explaining procedures and rules etc. The air work consisted of making an accurate water drop of a given length, followed by three drops describing a triangle around the fire boss.

Load calibration was by seconds of open gate. The 301 gate dumped the load in eight seconds, so one had the capability of four drops of two seconds each.

It's kind of like bull riding. All that preparation and you're history in eight seconds.
 
BudRiggs said:
If you want to fly SEAT, you need to get yourself into the right place at the right time. Usually that would be an ag-pilot job very close to a national forest.

I got the forest service certificate, first level, and made one actual fire drop. Right after that the forest service decided that some planes are just to small and underpowered for loaded canyon flying in summer heat above 5,000' MSL. With my one drop of experience, I agree with the forest service. We had an AirTractor 301 at the time.
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How much ag-flying experience did you have at the time ?
 
Thanks for all the replies so far... Two more questions:


-Anyone know something about ATGSs? (Air Tactical Group Supervisors) They fly in the back of the OV-10s and I think act in a FAC type capacity.
-Are there any aviation management related jobs in the aerial firefighting business?
 
acropilot said:
Thanks for all the replies so far... Two more questions:


-Anyone know something about ATGSs? (Air Tactical Group Supervisors) They fly in the back of the OV-10s and I think act in a FAC type capacity.
-Are there any aviation management related jobs in the aerial firefighting business?
Click to expand...

ATGS are usually agency employees or retirees who have fairly high ground FF qualifications before the work from the air. Minimum IIRC is division group supervisor what used to be called sector boss. They are basically air traffic controllers and eyes in the sky for the incident commander. I was a right seat observer for years and dreamed of ATGS but didn't have the ground experience. There are also FLIR specialists.
 
I'll second that about ATGS who are referred to as "air attack" on a fire. They are very experienced firefighters before they ever climb into a plane for the first time.

The best and easiest way to break into fire aviation is as a seasonal helicopter crewmember with a federal land management agency. You have to weed through the hundreds of forestry tech and range tech job postings on USAjobs.gov to find these. Job series 0401, 0462 and 0455.

Otherwise you can do like any other entry-level aviation job...line grunt for a larger fire contractor.

Both make decent seasonal money with plenty of OT unless the season is slow. Neither have great benefits.
 
Anthony said:
I remember several years ago seeing a guy rescuing/docking a sailboat, on the national news, in a hurricane. I thought, "that guy is either nuts, brave or both!"

Yep, it was Henning.
Click to expand...
Makes you wonder if Clive Cussler every used Henning as a template for one of his heroes.
 
acropilot said:
I was just wondering if anyone here has any experience in aerial firefighting... fixed-wing or rotor... I have looked at the US Forest Service website, but can't seem to find any info as to how to get involved. As a pilot building hours, I am looking for potential future employment and had some questions...

-What is the best way to become an aerial firefighter?
-Which way gives you a better chance?... fixed-wing or helicopter
-What jobs are available (entry level... what can you work up to)
-What other aviation related jobs are there (I have an Aviation Management degree).
-Where would you go for training?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

The data is up on the CDF - CalFire website. You have to dig a bit but it is there. Relatively high requirements. Most were looking for previous low-level military experience or similiar. I even recall 'Fish Dropping' being one of the acceptable pre-reqs.

Patty Wagstaff was flying for CalFire this year at Grass Valley airport in CA. IIRC, even she was given a tough interview.

Sure would be fun, but the MRS said she'd leave me if I became a Tanker Pilot. Now flying the Bronco would work. :)
 
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