Aera and Pilot update cost

Ed Haywood

Ed Haywood

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Big Ed
Just remodeled my panel and added several devices that benefit from GPS input. AV-30 displays course and track, EDM 830 computes fuel to destination, and GTR 225 does frequency lookup of nearby airports.
All that has me considering an Aera for hardwire capability. My airplane cannot be made legal for IFR, so panel mount would be a waste. Panel size is very constrained, and I do not have a yoke, so looking at the 660. Screen is tiny and low res, so I would carry my tablet and phone for a better look at charts.
But looking at annual database update subscription prices gives me pause. $150 for the Aera, plus $110 for Pilot or similar?
Am I missing any tricks to save bucks?
Yeah I'm being cheap, but I hate Garmin's determination to extract ongoing revenue streams from every device they sell. Feels like I am double paying for the same data.
Are there any current alternatives to the Aera for GPS Nav with NMEA output?
 
iFly just announced they're no longer selling their 740b, but I think it's better than the Aera and the subscription is (IIRC) about $75/year for both the 740b plus one other device (iPad or Android). It has NMEA output. iFly will continue to support the 740b, so if you can find one in somebody's inventory it might be a decent alternative for you.

Looks like Badland Aircraft has some availability:
https://www.badlandaircraft.com/product/adventure-pilot-ifly-gps/
 
FltPlanGo for the iPad is free and has the chart updates for free as well (for now). I use the map mode on my Aera 660 so don't bother upgrading it as I use the iPad for traffic. The gps output from the Aera doesn't depend on current charts so the other units that use its gps data (AV3-30, EDM 830) don't care (the GTR 225 might though if a radio frequency should be changed over time). For VFR flight you would have the current sectional on the iPad.
 
Ed Haywood said:
But looking at annual database update subscription prices gives me pause. $150 for the Aera, plus $110 for Pilot or similar?
Am I missing any tricks to save bucks?
Click to expand...
You're correct as far as I know. I usually do the $150 USA DB bundle update on my 660 right before Oshkosh.
In the past I have purchased/used database update certificates on eBay with success. Example: Garmin Aviation GPS ALL Databases Update Certificate G1000 G500 750 GTN GNS Aera | eBay.
I have purchased from this vendor in the past successfully though looking at last year's purchases/updates for some reason I did the eBay certificate and still had to buy the IFR/VFR charts database from Garmin afterwards so perhaps the cert from eBay didn't include everything it said it did...so there was no savings vs. just purchasing the US Bundle from Garmin.
I'll have to pay more attention this year.
 
Ed Haywood said:
Am I missing any tricks to save bucks?
Click to expand...
Have you considered not updating it? I use mine for VFR SA on XCs and as a backup to ForeFlight.
aera660.jpg
 
The Aera 660 screen size is more than adequate, especially in a confined cabin space. I update mine occasionally, but I have never had a subscription for it or any of my hand held GPS units and I haven't found any compelling reason to obsess over keeping them current for the VFR flying I do with them.

Another option would be to partner up with someone that has a G1000 data subscription. You get a "free" annual subscription for a Garmin hand held unit with it.
 
Ed Haywood said:
Seems like a market opportunity for a gizmo to output NMEA from tablet apps. Stratux Next Gen?
Click to expand...

I've been searching for such an app that would output NEMA from the iFly app on an iPad ...
 
I have my Aera 660 mounted on the yoke. The visibility in sunlight of the Aera 660 is fantastic. It has great definition. You will not be sorry. You could go with single updates every few years, and then go with FltPlan go, on IPad for free current charts. You can flight plan using FltPlan.go and using connects Bluetooth transfer the flight plan over to the 660 or vise versa. The 660 if connected to your gtr225 will tune your standby freq with a tap on the screen of the 660. I often pull up airport info on the 660 and push the frequencies over to the GTR225. I only use the iPad for planning and the 660 for flying. The IPad has over heated once too often.
 

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mondtster said:
The Aera 660 screen size is more than adequate, especially in a confined cabin space. I update mine occasionally, but I have never had a subscription for it or any of my hand held GPS units and I haven't found any compelling reason to obsess over keeping them current for the VFR flying I do with them.

Another option would be to partner up with someone that has a G1000 data subscription. You get a "free" annual subscription for a Garmin hand held unit with it.
Click to expand...

Is that only for the G1000 or would that work with a G650 as well?
 
mandm said:
Is that only for the G1000 or would that work with a G650 as well?
Click to expand...

I have no idea. We’re into the G1000s deep enough that I don’t expect to be buying a subscription for a GTN anytime soon.
 
Half Fast said:
Have you suggested it to iFly?
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I believe it's been asked for. I recall reading that Apple will not allow any app to send NMEA data from an iPad. Considering that the most common reason for wanting that would be to drive an autopilot, I can kind of understand their reluctance.

You can get NMEA output from iFly on an Android tablet. Just not an iThingie of any flavor.
 
DaleB said:
You can get NMEA output from iFly on an Android tablet. Just not an iThingie of any flavor.
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Er, I'd say, "It's technically possible to get NMEA output from an Android tablet." iFly does not currently support that, and although there is a strong clamoring from the vocal minority of users who want this feature, Adventure Pilot has not committed to supporting that capability.

Their concern is that they are a small company with limited support resources. They have offered 3rd-party products in the past that turned out to be support nightmares, consuming their resources far beyond the business benefit from selling the product. They are concerned that offering some sort of cable output from an Android device could end them up in a similar situation--too many different types of Android devices, different versions of Android, the USB-C connection used by most modern Android tablets is not super-robust and might wear out over time and cause flakiness that's hard to diagnose, etc., etc.

As others have mentioned, Apple locks down the output capability from their current port so that it's a non-starter for this application. Not sure if that might open up after they're forced to start shipping products with USB-C ports.
 
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Jim_R said:
Er, I'd say, "It's technically possible to get NMEA output from an Android tablet." iFly does not currently support that, and although there is a strong clamoring from the vocal minority of users who want this feature, Adventure Pilot has not committed to supporting that capability.
Click to expand...
Ah. I know I'd done it with Avare, I've never run iFly on Android. Now that you mention it, I do remember reading that iFly didn't support it. If they're no longer selling their own hardware, maybe they'll change that. They probably weren't doing it so they didn't impact sales of their own product. Just a guess. Our 740B is fine. I tried Avare on an Android tablet for a while and while Avare was OK, getting serial NMEA output stuffed into the devices that needed it was simply not worth the hassle and it really wasn't that reliable anyway. The hardware simply wasn't built to be mounted in a paint shaker, and the panel wasn't big enough to permanently mount it.
 
Jim_R said:
Apple locks down the output capability from their current port so that it's a non-starter for this application.
Click to expand...
I was thinking of some kind of WiFi or BT adapter. Receive GPS data via wireless, and convert to serial NMEA output. Ought to be doable with a Raspberry Pi, maybe even as a fork to the Stratux code base.
 
c177tx said:
I have my Aera 660 mounted on the yoke. The visibility in sunlight of the Aera 660 is fantastic. It has great definition. You will not be sorry. You could go with single updates every few years, and then go with FltPlan go, on IPad for free current charts. You can flight plan using FltPlan.go and using connects Bluetooth transfer the flight plan over to the 660 or vise versa. The 660 if connected to your gtr225 will tune your standby freq with a tap on the screen of the 660. I often pull up airport info on the 660 and push the frequencies over to the GTR225. I only use the iPad for planning and the 660 for flying. The IPad has over heated once too often.
Click to expand...
Thanks, good overview, that is an appealing approach. Except for the yoke mount, of course, since I have a stick.
For context, here is my current panel. Obviously space is a constraint. I somewhat foolishly missed the chance to create space for a panel mounted Aera when I installed a JPI 830 instead of a 900 or a CGR 30. But the size of the Aera is appealing. Finding space for a tablet, even a mini, has been tricky. TBH sometimes I just prop my phone on the bottom lip and fly on it.

PXL_20230419_000921584.jpg
 
Ed Haywood said:
Which is pretty much the use case for the Aera.
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Which I'd have happily bought if only it supported ANY sort of non-Garmin ADS-B solution. I've always thought it's a pretty nice GPS. Last I checked, it was all-Garmin or nothing.
 
Ed Haywood said:
I was thinking of some kind of WiFi or BT adapter. Receive GPS data via wireless, and convert to serial NMEA output. Ought to be doable with a Raspberry Pi, maybe even as a fork to the Stratux code base.
Click to expand...
Which is exactly the kind of Rube Goldberg, 1000-ways-it-can-break solution that Adventure Pilot is trying to avoid having to provide support for.
 
Daleandee said:
No I haven't but I'd think they would figure that one out for themselves ... :D
Click to expand...
Adventure Pilot is really rather responsive to their user base. The solution to this feature request is not trivial, and so far AP has been reluctant to charge that hill in favor of working on more tractable issues, but if you're serious about wanting this feature you should pop over to the forums and cast your vote for it.
https://adventurepilot.community.forum/threads/nmea-output.58/

If a whole bunch of folks tell AP they want this feature, that's not a guarantee that AP will implement it. But if not many folks say they want it, that IS a guarantee that AP's going to ignore it.
 
Jim_R said:
Which is exactly the kind of Rube Goldberg, 1000-ways-it-can-break solution that Adventure Pilot is trying to avoid having to provide support for.
Click to expand...
And yet numerous ADS-B portable devices use that solution for traffic and weather without burning airplanes falling from the sky en masse.
 
Jim_R said:
Adventure Pilot is really rather responsive to their user base. The solution to this feature request is not trivial, and so far AP has been reluctant to charge that hill in favor of working on more tractable issues, but if you're serious about wanting this feature you should pop over to the forums and cast your vote for it.
https://adventurepilot.community.forum/threads/nmea-output.58/

If a whole bunch of folks tell AP they want this feature, that's not a guarantee that AP will implement it. But if not many folks say they want it, that IS a guarantee that AP's going to ignore it.
Click to expand...

You are correct in that those that want it should ask for it but the hindrance (at least for us iPad/iPhone users) is that Apple will not allow their products to transmit the needed NEMA information as you mentioned yourself (post # 18) above.

From some reading it appears that if I buy a TRIPLTEK tablet that it has the needed serial port and running Avare (or even iFly) will do what I need to do. I had another thread where I asked about the iFly not driving my EZ A/P as mine doesn't. Adventure Pilot was quite responsive but I never got a fix that worked.

https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/com...z-auto-pilot-ifly-740b-at-loggerheads.135509/

So I'm currently driving my A/P with an older Garmin unit (that I just sent in to get updated). I really like Adventure Pilot and their iFly unit but I'm seriously looking at other options these days. The problem with Garmin is that their units won't read my ADSB data. So I'm gonna have to use a tablet of some kind and if I can get traffic and weather along with driving the A/P from a single tablet, it appears that that option is already available for us experimental guys.
 
Ed Haywood said:
Thanks, good overview, that is an appealing approach. Except for the yoke mount, of course, since I have a stick.
For context, here is my current panel. Obviously space is a constraint. I somewhat foolishly missed the chance to create space for a panel mounted Aera when I installed a JPI 830 instead of a 900 or a CGR 30. But the size of the Aera is appealing. Finding space for a tablet, even a mini, has been tricky. TBH sometimes I just prop my phone on the bottom lip and fly on it.

View attachment 117074
Click to expand...
Looking at your pix, is there a practical way to mount a 660 off the bottom edge of the panel, say, on the right? Could be some RAM-X thingy and/or maybe the mount that comes with the 660. Search “Aera 660 mount” on Spruce and some options come up.

As for the 660, I like my two a lot (one in plane, one in gyro). It’s actually my only “MFD” in the gyro. The one issue I’ve had, just in the gyro, is at night it’s harder for me to read not because it’s not bright enough but because of the vibration plus my older eyes. Daytime is fine.

I update the Nav and Obstacles once a year in both. I typically get the helicopter version for obstacles, especially for the gyro, which is the same price but includes more wires.
 
Ed Haywood said:
And yet numerous ADS-B portable devices use that solution for traffic and weather without burning airplanes falling from the sky en masse.
Click to expand...
That's fine.

It's an Adventure Pilot business decision that they are unwilling to spend the resources to support a solution that a very small fraction of their user base uses, but will likely generate lots of support requests. They've been bitten by providing support for solutions that were more trouble than they were worth before, and they don't want to be in that situation again.
 
Daleandee said:
You are correct in that those that want it should ask for it but the hindrance (at least for us iPad/iPhone users) is that Apple will not allow their products to transmit the needed NEMA information as you mentioned yourself (post # 18) above.

From some reading it appears that if I buy a TRIPLTEK tablet that it has the needed serial port and running Avare (or even iFly) will do what I need to do. I had another thread where I asked about the iFly not driving my EZ A/P as mine doesn't. Adventure Pilot was quite responsive but I never got a fix that worked.
Click to expand...
???

You state that it's not worth asking iFly to implement a solution that won't work on an Apple product, then in the next sentence say you're willing to buy a non-Apple product to solve your problem?

Um, okay....
 
Jim_R said:
That's fine.

It's an Adventure Pilot business decision that they are unwilling to spend the resources to support a solution that a very small fraction of their user base uses, but will likely generate lots of support requests. They've been bitten by providing support for solutions that were more trouble than they were worth before, and they don't want to be in that situation again.
Click to expand...
I never said anything about Adventure Pilot.
 
Jim_R said:
???

You state that it's not worth asking iFly to implement a solution that won't work on an Apple product, then in the next sentence say you're willing to buy a non-Apple product to solve your problem?

Um, okay....
Click to expand...

I'm saying that iFly can't fix the problem on an Apple product (because Apple is the barrier not Adventure Pilot) and that it is reportedly already available on non-Apple equipment.

Okay?
 
Llewtrah381 said:
Looking at your pix, is there a practical way to mount a 660 off the bottom edge of the panel, say, on the right? .
Click to expand...
Yes, there are numerous steel tubes there to clamp to. Just gotta play with the geometry a bit. Gotta be careful not to block stick travel.

But I really missed a trick by not spending an extra $1500 for a primary monitor. Then I could have discarded the four 2 1/4 gauges to the left of the six pack and had room for an air gizmo 660 mount.
 
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Daleandee said:
I'm saying that iFly can't fix the problem on an Apple product (because Apple is the barrier not Adventure Pilot) and that it is reportedly already available on non-Apple equipment.

Okay?
Click to expand...
Okay.
 
Jim_R said:
OK, but you were replying to my post that *was* about AP, thus my confusion.
Click to expand...

Fair enough. I was specifically addressing Apple locking down their ports, hence my suggestion for a wireless solution. I agree, wired is better, but Apple is Apple.

Which reminds me again why I don't like Garmin, and shouldn't be fantasizing about an Aera.
 
I'm doing my annual pre-Oshkosh db update for my Aera660 and thought I'd update this thread.
I again bought the $102.02 redeemable coupon code from eBay I mentioned above and was able to redeem it w/ flyGarmin online & update ALL the databases (Airport Directory/FliteCharts/IFR/VFR Charts/Navigation Data/Obstacles/SafeTaxi/Terrain) on my 660 this year. I didn't have the issue I had last year where for some reason the coupon code didn't include the IFR/VFR charts (or I screwed it up somehow).
The same package (US Database Bundle) bought from flyGarmin online would have cost $159.32 after taxes. YMMV.

I'm tempted to get in line at the Garmin booth at Oshkosh this year and see if I can buy the same bundle from them and if possible, wait and update to the most recent cycle/db versions next July.
It's gonna have to beat the eBay coupon code price though!
 
I’ve said for years that I’ll never buy another Garmin GPS. My iPad or iPhone Max with GP are better and updates to charts and obstacles load automatically. I use a Mini 6 in the Cessna velcroed right over my old Aera and my iPhone right above the G3X in the Cub. I speak Garmin so GP is my fav flying app. I do have GDLs in both planes for ADHRS functions in GP. Awesome technology and it keeps getting better.
 
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