Advice requested

NickDBrennan said:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=63677&item=4542818251&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

I'm sober tonight...this looks good....am I missing anything here? I'm still new to the idea that I can actually afford to purchase an airplane.
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:no: I suspect that you would need to spend a lot of money to get this plane where you would like it. It looks like one of those airplanes that sits on the ramp for ages without being used with flat tires. The last overhaul was in 1982 -- believe it or not, that's 23 years ago:eek: Personally, I wouldn't fly it, even though it's only 1074 SMOH. The engine is more than "run-out" in 23 years. But that would just be the start of your heartaches. Just to give you an idea of the care over the years . . . the owner bragged about adding a master switch -- WOW, big spender. Why not find a plane in excellent condition and pay the piper up front? Ask yourself, "Would I buy a car in that condition?"
 
NickDBrennan said:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=63677&item=4542818251&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

I'm sober tonight...this looks good....am I missing anything here? I'm still new to the idea that I can actually afford to purchase an airplane.
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Ehhh... What do you want? You were looking at a 182, that's a usefull airplane. This is a 172, for me, they are very limited usefullness aircraft. It's too slow for a one or two person aircraft, and can't haul the loads I want. If it fits your profile, ok. I'm not sure about this one, looks like a ramp queen. Considering where it lives & how little it gets used, Its a real candidate for corrosion (Cessna Scrud), and a 23 year old engine at mid times??? You're probably looking to overhaul it soon. Panel is so so at best, and the price is already going a bit high.

Here's a useful plane for you:
http://www.airshow.net/html/adpage.cfm?ID=7471
Probably get a couple years out of that engine, and a couple cans of Marhyde will cure the interior.
 
NickDBrennan said:
Cool guys....here's my mission profile:

$30,000-$50,000, need to haul 2 people routinely, possibly 3 and a half from time to time. Longest haul I can imagine would be no more than 350 miles at this time. I think that low wings are sexier, but I don't believe they are necessarily better, so I'm open minded about that.

I suppose, I could go higher in price, but I would really rather stay in that range.

Any suggestions?
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Grumman Traveller or Cheetah. Fast for the power, sexy, and after having flown the Tiger I can say without reservation FAR more fun than the Cessnas or Pipers.

Very nice, no excuses Cherokee 140s can be found in your price range, and are good dependable planes.

Beech Musketeers are roomy, comfortable, and really good ones can be found in your price range.

Skyhawks can be had, but I'd stick with the older ones. The 70s models in your price range will have issues, I think.
 
Joe Williams said:
Grumman Traveller or Cheetah. Fast for the power, sexy, and after having flown the Tiger I can say without reservation FAR more fun than the Cessnas or Pipers.

Very nice, no excuses Cherokee 140s can be found in your price range, and are good dependable planes.

Beech Musketeers are roomy, comfortable, and really good ones can be found in your price range.

Skyhawks can be had, but I'd stick with the older ones. The 70s models in your price range will have issues, I think.
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Nick is in the mountains. High DAs = longer take off and landing rolls. I don't think that the takeoff and landing distances of the Grummans are as good as the Piper or Cessnas. Kinda like recommending a Mooney for a grass strip.
 
NickDBrennan said:
$30,000-$50,000, need to haul 2 people routinely, possibly 3 and a half from time to time. Longest haul I can imagine would be no more than 350 miles at this time.

---snip---

Any suggestions?
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Mooney M20C or possibly a Mooney M20E.

There are lots of M20C's to choose from in Trade a Plane in the $40K to $50K price range. They will be mid to late 60's vintage aircraft. No two will be alike based on mods.

In your price range you would be looking at a Traveler if you are looking at Grummans. I like the Grumman aircraft a lot but think they are over priced when compared to the early Mooney C and E models.

Len
 
I hate to say it, because I love my airplane, m20e, but dont even think about it unless you can buy a runout "c" model with nothing else wrong with it for 25k...not likely. Don't buy mid-time motors, they are a crap shoot at best. Mid-time's oh'd more than 12 years ago are runouts, and the lower the time, the more likely you are to have a corrosion issues. Mechanics and brokers and fbo owners will tell you that it's ok to buy midtime, dont listen to 'em. They're not the ones who get nickel and dimed to death every month to fix this little thing or that little thing. Before ya know it your coughin' up $300 month in maintenance and most of that is going to labor and not new parts and those guys will just tell ya it's part of airplane ownership.
Buy the plane that fits your mission without going overboard, find a well used runout at the right price and overhaul it up front. Its much easier to work the overhaul into your financing, maybe run ya another $150 a month, as opposed to coughing up the $300 a month you will be coughing up for all those 10-15 year old parts that need attention, and you'll be flying behind a new motor with all of the piece of mind that that entails. From your posts, it doesnt sound like your anywhere near ready to be pricing airplanes. You need to find the right type of airplane for you and then learn all you can about it, ad's sb's, read everything you can find on the model and then start looking. This way, you'll actually know what your looking for. Judging from the price range you listed it doesnt sound like you'd have much fincancial flexibility to handle the $15,000 to $20,000 mistake many owners find themselves with. The only way to avoid it is education. Pre-buy mechanics and brokers will not protect you and in some cases will out right lie to your face......so go get edumacated:)
Pete

Len Lanetti said:
Mooney M20C or possibly a Mooney M20E.

There are lots of M20C's to choose from in Trade a Plane in the $40K to $50K price range. They will be mid to late 60's vintage aircraft. No two will be alike based on mods.

In your price range you would be looking at a Traveler if you are looking at Grummans. I like the Grumman aircraft a lot but think they are over priced when compared to the early Mooney C and E models.

Len
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NickDBrennan said:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...ry=63677&item=4542818251&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

I'm sober tonight...this looks good....am I missing anything here? I'm still new to the idea that I can actually afford to purchase an airplane.
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Want Fun?

Wanta turn heads every where you go?

Want to have to tell folks to step back away from your aircraft when you want to fly?

MONOCOUPE 90 AWARD WINNER • $78,000 • FOR SALE • 1930 Monocoupe Model 90, STC'd 125 HP Warner. 2100 TTAF 250 SMOH Annual begins in April. During restoration: rebuilt wing and fuselage. New bungee gear, wheel bearings and brake shoes, empennage, doors, motor mount, seats w/ leather covers and temperfoam cushions, oil tank, plumbing/fittings, cables, pulleys, silver cad hardware, floors, stringers, formers, cowls, instrument panel, ELT. All metal powder coated, wood epoxy'd, then covered in Ceconite w/ Randolph dope, historic paint design. Period instruments o'hauled with period Pioneer dials redone. Engine built by the best in the country. During OH: Cyls. chromed to STD., all parts magnafluxed, new bearings, valve guides, stainless valves. New harness, new exhaust, mags and carb rebuilt. Falcon/Fahlin 90" Wood Prop. Extensive documentation and drawings. Interesting history, fun flying, museum quality details. Will deliver. Serious inquiries please email for more info. • Contact Bob Coolbaugh - located Culpeper, VA USA • Telephone: 540-829-9375 • Posted March 12, 2005 • Show all Ads posted by this Advertiser • Recommend This Ad to a Friend • Send a Message

see the pictures at
http://barnstormers.com/

Antique-Classic / Monocoupe
 
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I agree - I sold my Skyhawk with a mid-time engine. Good plane, but I was tired of mid-time engine issues. Bought a Tiger with 1900 hours on the engine. The only thing I regret is that I didn't get it halfway home before it swallowed a valve! I hope to have it home in a month or two... but it was still a good choice and I'll have a newly overhauled engine when I'm done, which is what I wanted.
 
NickDBrennan said:
Cool guys....here's my mission profile:

$30,000-$50,000, need to haul 2 people routinely, possibly 3 and a half from time to time. Longest haul I can imagine would be no more than 350 miles at this time. I think that low wings are sexier, but I don't believe they are necessarily better, so I'm open minded about that.

I suppose, I could go higher in price, but I would really rather stay in that range.

Any suggestions?
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Think outside the box, here's one, couple dollars more: http://tappix.com/675290
 
Ah yes, the baby Connie. I absolutely love Cruisemasters. Almost bought one after I sold my Cherokee. Well not really, I saw a really nice one that was for sale at the Bellanca guru located on my previous home field. Witmer's Air Service is THE east coast Bellanca shop. A customer had a nice Crusiemaster in for annual, then was selling it. Very tempting, but I already had my eyes on the Tiger and nothing was going to stop me short of a nightmare prebuy/annual. I think the guy wanted $40K, which was a steal if the Cruisemaster was in as good a shape as it looked, but that was 3 1/2 years ago. Still, this one is $55K.
 
N2212R said:
Kinda like recommending a Mooney for a grass strip.
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OK, wait a min here....Are you saying a mooney cant land on grass? Whats up with that? I have taken mine to dirt strips before and was hoping to take it into Gastons...what do you know that I dont?

Michael
 
1963 MOONEY MARK 21, 3400TT, 250 SMOH, IFR certified, 2-Navs, 2-Coms, ADF, DME, Loran, recent annual. P&I 9+, $49,500. AR/(479) 651-6310;

1968 MOONEY RANGER, 3500 TTAF, 400 SMOH, new $10,000 exterior paint less than one year old. June annual. Photos on request. $45,000. TN/(865) 458-8560.

Len
 
N2212R said:
Nick is in the mountains. High DAs = longer take off and landing rolls. I don't think that the takeoff and landing distances of the Grummans are as good as the Piper or Cessnas. Kinda like recommending a Mooney for a grass strip.
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I operate a Grumman Tiger out of a 5,500 ft elevation field (FTG) in Colorado and while its no turbo 182, its is fine for Mountain flying. Just keep it under gross, especially in the summer, pay attention to DA (like all planes) and you're fine. The strips out here in Colorado are all long to compensate for the longer take off runs. There are lots of Cheetahs, Tigers and even Yankees out here.
 
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Michael said:
OK, wait a min here....Are you saying a mooney cant land on grass? Whats up with that? I have taken mine to dirt strips before and was hoping to take it into Gastons...what do you know that I dont?
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It's not the grass, but the lack of a smooth surface that matters. Mooney's don't have a very compliant landing gear (there've been times when I could swear the only thing soft in the Mooney gear was the tires), and apparently the gear loads on rough surfaces can be enough to eventually cause fuel tank leaks if you don't have bladders. Also the prop clearance may be insufficient if you drop the nose gear into a chuckhole while taxiing.

IOW, a nice smooth grass runway should be fine, but if the surface is rough enough to spill coffee when driving down the strip in a jeep, you Mooney won't be happy landing there.
 
http://www.planesforsale.net/n6656u.htm

You'd want to check the fuel tanks, make sure the cabin isn't corroded, make sure the little ring the landing gear lever goes into isn't ovaled. A few other things Mooney owners can get you up to speed on, but this critter or one like it would meet your mission profile beautifully, for the price of a lot of fixed gear planes. It's speed and efficiency can't be matched by anything else on the price range.
 
Joe Williams said:
http://www.planesforsale.net/n6656u.htm

You'd want to check the fuel tanks, make sure the cabin isn't corroded, make sure the little ring the landing gear lever goes into isn't ovaled. A few other things Mooney owners can get you up to speed on, but this critter or one like it would meet your mission profile beautifully, for the price of a lot of fixed gear planes. It's speed and efficiency can't be matched by anything else on the price range.
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I agree!! sounds like a nice plane. would like to see pictures of it :)
 
I wasn't gonna way in here, but what the heck. Ok, 588 hours on a field overhaul? New limits o/h not specified..thats a problem. O/H'd when?..12 years is a runout regardless of hours. The panel's been completely modified, who did the work? It looks shoddy to me. Position of ignition, spray painted lower panel with sticky lables, spray painted chrome gear and flap handle...very amateur. Brokers get 7%, thats in the price of 52,900...too high for a c model. There are some very nice c models out there, they're not in trade a plane very long when they hit. If your serious about a mooney send me one of those private messages and I'll tell ya what to look for. Even modest repairs/upgrades can be very expensive.
Almost forgot...if your gonna be living in the same area for awhile your best option is a partnership. Two or three guys owning a mooney is very affordable. The airplane sits most of the time anyway, its actually better for the plane to be flown more often. If I didnt have to move every two or three years for work that'd be the way I'd go. Single pilot ownership for a guy on an average income is very difficult. My income is significantly above average and it's still a bit of a drain:) The downside is that if you move the partnership can take awhile to sell.
Pete

NickDBrennan said:
Nice...I like. I'll have to check that one out a bit more.
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