Advice on getting started

kontiki

kontiki

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Kontiki
On most weekends, the only reason I can come up with to fly is to practice flying skills. And when I went up with one of the local aerobatic guys in his Decathlon to get experience with spins it was great.

And even though I just got my IFR, I don't really travel. I really can't see buying and maintaining a lot of fuel gulping airplane.

So, I decided that a 7ECA Citabria was within my budget as a good first airplane. The plan, learn some aerobatics and go fly my Citabria on nice days.

Any body see anything I'm missing in my reasoning?
 
Sounds like damn good reasoning to me. I think folks who have no illusions that flying HAS to have some practical element to it get the most out of it. The 7ECA is a classic taildragger, but don't expect its aerobatic performance to blow you away. It will do lethargic loops, rolls, and spins, but I'd imagine you'll mostly enjoy it because it's just a fun little airplane to begin with. As you know, "Citabria" is "Airbatic" backwards...and so it goes as an aerobatic airplane - almost, but not quite. :) That's a joke - don't let me discourage you. The Citabria will stress good rudder skills and put you in a good position to transition to a more purpose-built acro plane should you want at some point later. The Citabria will have more adverse yaw, slower roll rate, and heavier ailerons than the Decathlon. You'll just need to dive a bit for airspeed, and with the O-235 engine you'll spend a little more time climbing back to altitude during a practice session. If you're happy just doing the occasional loop, barrel roll, or spin, then it might be the perfect airplane for you.
 
BT:

Sounds like a great plan to me. I have my IR also, but don't really have a lot of business travel demand so most of my flying is personal/recreation. It is very difficult, if you don't do a lot of IMC flying, to stay on top of your game. I bought a C-172 IFR platform first, then sold that after a few years and bought a C-150. I like the side by side seating of the Cessna, plus I keep it tied down outside and did not want a fabric airplane because of that. Probably 80% of my flying is out doing stalls, chandelles, lazy eights, wing overs, etc. just for fun. If I had the money, I would own a Super Decathlon. I have a few hours in one and I really like them. I would say go for the Citabria, although others on this board will probably tell you to buy a Bonanza.
 
The citabria sounds like a great way to start and be able to enjoy easy going acro. Diana flies a citabria maybe she will chime in shortly...
Remember too that with that fixed propeller you will have to be more thoughtful about power management than in the decathlon but it's no big deal.
What altitude is your home field? An O-235 doesn't have much power for high DA maneurvering.
So, have you picked one out yet?
 
That's why most folks buy Citabrias in the first place.
 
kontiki said:
On most weekends, the only reason I can come up with to fly is to practice flying skills. And when I went up with one of the local aerobatic guys in his Decathlon to get experience with spins it was great.

And even though I just got my IFR, I don't really travel. I really can't see buying and maintaining a lot of fuel gulping airplane.

So, I decided that a 7ECA Citabria was within my budget as a good first airplane. The plan, learn some aerobatics and go fly my Citabria on nice days.

Any body see anything I'm missing in my reasoning?
Click to expand...

Nope!
BUT! If you can swing it I would go for a 150HP (o-320) Citabria instead of the O-235 model. For a number of reasons the extra 35 HP is desirable. Resale is better too.

JMPO

Chris
 
I remember when Diana and I were talking about competition and I said that I really don't want to compete she told me about the saying: Loops and Rolls on Sunday Afternoon - where if you take the first letter of each word it spells - LaRosa... So, my decathlon goes by the name Rosy, short for La Rosa :)
Which sounds like just what BT is wanting to go do
 
All,

Thanks for the feedback. Home field is actually M01, Dewitt Spain, field elevation 225. It is literally 5 minutes away from my apartment.

Hopefully it re-opens soon (within a week, maybe, they keep promising!). It flooded a couple months ago when the river was high and a levy gave away.

Sidebar -> I really miss the sound of the CAF birds flying over the apartment on weekend mornings. The Army Corps of Engineers gave everyone weeks of warning, so I expect most folks didn't loose too much. I understand the water was around 6 ft. deep in the buildings at it's worst.

Flying out of KOLV (where where the FBO temporarily moved), isn't too difficult, but it adds a 2 hour round trip commute for every flight.

I really just got off the fence over what to buy this week. I can probably swing a 150 HP version.

I plan to keep it for a while. It would even probably be sufficent for most any cross country I would realistically fly and the ability to carry one other pilot (usually) will probably cover any passenger needs.

I figure, if I need to carry people or really get somewhere a little faster with a group, I'll just rent a 182 and split the costs.

I'm looking at the ads now. I feel like I should wrap up my tail wheel endorsement before I contact anyone about about a purchase.

It would make sense to start on some aerobatics instruction soon too. I really can get started on the purchase project now. I do want to model the costs and do a bit more research before I get started. I posted my aircraft purchasing notes in another thread (I don't have the link right now).

I always knew I'd buy something.

I am also hoping folks that I talk to will recommend a local gem that's for sale nearby. No luck yet on that.

Can someone tell me about the difference in insurance rates between a 172 and a Citabria?

Thanks again,
 
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Hey BT. I am in Memphis also. I have flown several times with the Chief Flight Instructor at Downtown Aviation. A great guys and great teacher. Last time I flew with him in the Super D he said all I needed to complete my tailwheel endorsement was do to the wheel landings. I plan to get with him when they get moved back downtown. I will keep my eye out for a Citabria around here.
 
kontiki said:
Can someone tell me about the difference in insurance rates between a 172 and a Citabria?
Click to expand...

Too many variables between you and which insurance company is used to say. You can easily get quotes over the phone from most companies.
 
somorris,

I agree, Chief Flight Instructor at Downtown Aviation is a great guy and sharp as a tack.

Honestly, I've really picked up good stuff from most everyone I've worked with down there.
 
I bought a 1968 7ECA as my first airplane about 8 years ago. Like you, I wanted to do aerobatices. It turned out to be an excellent choice. They're great planes. I'll list some of things I found as a buyer, owner and seller of a citabria.

The only draw back of the ECA over the 150HP models is climb rate. Cruise speed doesn't change too much. I figured on 100MPH at 6GPH. Fuel tanks - I think the maximum is 18 gallons per side. Mine had 12 or 13 gallons per side which, at 6GPH, is plenty of fuel. If you get one with the bigger motor, you'll want the bigger tanks. If you get an ECA, either size tank is fine. Some of the older ones like mine had a tall instrument panel but most have the lower panel. It doesn't make much difference but given a choice, I'd get the lower panel. Seats - make sure you get an adjustable front seat. It really makes a difference. Don't worry about getting a wide rear seat or narrow rear seat. I never understood the rational for having an extra wide rear seat. Some have them some don't - either is fine. Heater - if you live where it gets cold try to find one with rear seat heat. It's not great but it's better than nothing. Brakes, depending on the age, you may get heal or toe brakes. Don't worry about it. Heal brakes are easy to get used to. Cowling - the older ones like mine have a hinged cowling which I prefer. The newer ones have a one piece cowling. Now the big one - wings.

If I were shopping now, I would try very hard to get a plane with factory metal wings. Mine had the wood spars and I never had a problem but .... Everyone that called when I was selling it asked first about the wings. As time goes by, the number of citabrias and decathlons in the fleet with metal wings goes up. Eventually, as a seller, you'll have a hard time selling one with wood wings. I think the wood wing AD is a bunch of nonsense but it's here to stay. Of course, if you buy a wood winged bird cheap enough it might be worth it. If however a cracked spar is discovered, it's serious money for a fix. You can replace the cracked spar with another wooden spar or go with metal wings. Neither is cheap. I think the metal wings are now in the $25k range - anybody have pricing on them? There are many older planes with that have been changed over to metal wings. All the planes made since around 1993 have the metal wings. The factory metal wings also get a 100lb gross weight increase. That doesn't mean too much with an ECA but it's a big plus on a GCBC or GCAA. There's a third option. A company called millman offered metal spars that can be used with the older wings in place of the wood spars. They don't offer the gross weight increase.

Sorry for being long winded.
 
Jeanie said:
The citabria sounds like a great way to start and be able to enjoy easy going acro. Diana flies a citabria maybe she will chime in shortly...
Click to expand...
Sorry, I was at Oshkosh when this thread was going on and I missed it. That's what happens when you try to go for two weeks without a computer. :D

Hiperbiper said:
If you can swing it I would go for a 150HP (o-320) Citabria instead of the O-235 model. For a number of reasons the extra 35 HP is desirable. Resale is better too.
Click to expand...
Yes, I would definitely recommend one of the 150 HP versions. I really like having that extra power for various reasons.

kontiki said:
I plan to keep it for a while. It would even probably be sufficent for most any cross country I would realistically fly and the ability to carry one other pilot (usually) will probably cover any passenger needs.
Click to expand...
I've done a lot of cross country flying in my Citabria and it suits my needs quite well. :)

kontiki said:
Can someone tell me about the difference in insurance rates between a 172 and a Citabria?
Click to expand...
Well, it's going to be more for a Citabria, mainly because it's a taildragger. And, it depends on how much hull you want to carry and how much time you have, including tailwheel time.

BTW, in regard to your other thread about aerobatic books, I have most of the basic aerobatic books and plan to sell them, so let me know if you're interested. :)
 
kontiki said:
I really miss the sound of the CAF birds flying over the apartment on weekend mornings. ,
Click to expand...

The Fury is a beast, isn't it? We were out a few months ago getting it lubed up after some work it had done. Lots of good guys in that hangar.

kontiki said:
Can someone tell me about the difference in insurance rates between a 172 and a Citabria?
Click to expand...

I don't remember what we paid when we had our 172 as we had more than 1 airplane on the policy, but I wouldn't think a 172 and a Citab would be too much different, the Citab will be a little more though, due to the tail draggin' nature of the thing. :)
 
I like the idea. I would still like to get a little aerobatic thing to go out and have fun with. I'd do it on days like today.

Although since I'm a twin guy, maybe I should go buy a Shrike and learn the Bob Hoover routine. ;)
 
Ted DuPuis said:
I like the idea. I would still like to get a little aerobatic thing to go out and have fun with. I'd do it on days like today.

Although since I'm a twin guy, maybe I should go buy a Shrike and learn the Bob Hoover routine. ;)
Click to expand...

Good idea. Somehow, I think I'd spill my coffee in a Pitts or an Extra.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
I

Although since I'm a twin guy, maybe I should go buy a Shrike and learn the Bob Hoover routine. ;)
Click to expand...

Could be argued you need more than just a Shrike to do the Hoover routine. That guys forgotten more about aviation than most of us will ever know.
 
I took some aerobatics lessons a few years ago. I started in a Super Decathlon and sometimes alternated with a Pitts. Of course the Super D was less expensive per hour but when you counted the time it took to climb back to altitude, the number of maneuvers you could practice for the same amount of money was a wash. This was in the Denver area in the summer, though. A Citabria would have been way underpowered for here, I think.

If I were you I would try a few different kinds of airplanes before buying. I found that the Pitts was much easier to fly aerobatics in as it hid my errors in technique. However, it would not be as good as the Super D as an all-around airplane to travel in too if that's what you are thinking about.
 
The OP is in/near Memphis, Tn. 600ish' elevation. A Citab does fine in this area of the country. However, I'd go with a Decathlon and find a way to pay the extra $$ for the CS prop and larger engine.
 
kontiki said:
On most weekends, the only reason I can come up with to fly is to practice flying skills.
Click to expand...

A few things you could do:

1. Work on a new rating (always a good reason to flying on the weekends)
2. Learn formation flying
3. Join Go Fly America (http://www.operationfly.com) and go claim some airports
4. Young Eagles, or something similar
5. ARF (http://www.animalrescueflights.org/)
6. Angel Flight (http://www.angelflight.com/)

Lots of reasons to get out and go fly, and lots of fun to be had when you run out of ideas!
 
Sac Arrow said:
Good idea. Somehow, I think I'd spill my coffee in a Pitts or an Extra.
Click to expand...

And it would be less impressive to do single-engine aerobatics with a Pitts/Extra.
 
Sorry I missed this thread earlier, but I wanted to make a comment about the high DA comments. I flew my Citabria out to Ogden Utah (from mid TN) several years ago. A T/O from Rock Springs WY mid-afternoon with temp in the mid 80s at gross weight was a non-event. On the way back I took a cell phone shot of the panel I was so impressed: 13.5, 2500 RPM 120 mph indicated.

It is the 160HP 7GCBC (flaps). The Explorer has a higher GW, but the flaps make a big difference for T/O. The only other family member I have flown was the 150HP Decathalon, and that is a dog comparatively.

Ernie
 
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