Advice for picking a flight school/CFI?

WBBulldogs

WBBulldogs

Filing Flight Plan
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Oct 1, 2011
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Colorado Springs
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First of all I want to introduce myself. My name is Brandon. I'm currently stationed in Guam but forward deployed to Iraq. My plans are to return to Colorado in about a year to finish my degree and start flight school with a bit of money I have saved up. Some people say I'm thinking too far ahead since I am still a year from being able to do anything.

So here's my question: I've been looking at some flight schools in Colorado Springs and though I can't really decide by looking at the websites I have noticed something right off the bat. One school is almost all (relatively) young instructors while the other one has a lot of (I'll be nice) "wiser" instructors haha. I've always felt that the more experienced crowd is usually that way for a reason maybe because they have good communication skills. Is this necessarily true in aviation? I heard to stay away from "hour builders" as they may or may not be very good instructors. Any inputs on this?

Also if you guys have any inputs for the schools/clubs or free lance instructors in the Colorado Springs area that would be very helpful too. Thanks.
 
WBBulldogs said:
First of all I want to introduce myself. My name is Brandon. I'm currently stationed in Guam but forward deployed to Iraq. My plans are to return to Colorado in about a year to finish my degree and start flight school with a bit of money I have saved up. Some people say I'm thinking too far ahead since I am still a year from being able to do anything.

So here's my question: I've been looking at some flight schools in Colorado Springs and though I can't really decide by looking at the websites I have noticed something right off the bat. One school is almost all (relatively) young instructors while the other one has a lot of (I'll be nice) "wiser" instructors haha. I've always felt that the more experienced crowd is usually that way for a reason maybe because they have good communication skills. Is this necessarily true in aviation? I heard to stay away from "hour builders" as they may or may not be very good instructors. Any inputs on this?

Also if you guys have any inputs for the schools/clubs or free lance instructors in the Colorado Springs area that would be very helpful too. Thanks.
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Someof the best things about an older instructor is that they are:

1) Likely to be instructing because they like to. Some but not all younger CFIs are more interested in building time to qualify for a better job and some of those might not be all that motivated about teaching.

2) Less likely to quit teaching on a moment's notice when a better job comes along leaving their students to scramble for a new instructor. More than one student has been dumped to another CFI multiple times during their PPL training and this can be very disruptive.

3) More likely to have significant "real world" flying experience. There are plenty of CFIs who've never taken a real cross country trip of any sort beyond what's required in the training environment.

That's not to say that a young CFI can't be as good as a more "seasoned" one but the odds favor the ones over 30.
 
You may be right, but the only way you'll know for certain is to visit the schools and interview the instructors. The rapport you have with your CFI is very important, so it may take a few test flights to find the right one for you
 
Consult DPE,s

When I was looking for a CFI I had no information regarding local instructors. I got a list of local Designated Pilot Examiners from the FSDO. I called each of the Examiners and asked for their recommendation. I figured that they saw the results of the instruction. I explained that I was looking for the instructors that sent students that the DPE would assume to pass because of prior students preparation. Of the three DPE,s I contacted all three recommended one instructor. I only got one other recommendation. This approach should get you a qualified instructor. Worked for me.
 
WBBulldogs said:
First of all I want to introduce myself. My name is Brandon. I'm currently stationed in Guam but forward deployed to Iraq. My plans are to return to Colorado in about a year to finish my degree and start flight school with a bit of money I have saved up. Some people say I'm thinking too far ahead since I am still a year from being able to do anything.

So here's my question: I've been looking at some flight schools in Colorado Springs and though I can't really decide by looking at the websites I have noticed something right off the bat. One school is almost all (relatively) young instructors while the other one has a lot of (I'll be nice) "wiser" instructors haha. I've always felt that the more experienced crowd is usually that way for a reason maybe because they have good communication skills. Is this necessarily true in aviation? I heard to stay away from "hour builders" as they may or may not be very good instructors. Any inputs on this?

Also if you guys have any inputs for the schools/clubs or free lance instructors in the Colorado Springs area that would be very helpful too. Thanks.
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I'm a fairly young instructor (24) and have been flying since I was a few months old. I really don't care how many hours are in my logbook and instruct because it completes a part of me.

I'm not a "hour builder" but I'm not about to say instructors that are building hours are bad instructors. Some of them might be, but I've came across many that are not.

Just because someone is "older" does not mean they are more experienced or a better teacher. Interview the instructors and go from there. I wouldn't make a five to ten thousand dollar decision based on stereotypes.
 
I know a new CFI in the Colorado Springs area who is "older".

I also suspect from the level of success he's had in his former profession (engineer) and knowing him personally for years and his patient and knowledgeable demeanor, that he's going to be an excellent instructor in his "retirement" years.

If you'd like a reference, PM me. I'm sure he'd talk to you and do an interview.
 
As others have suggested, talk with lots of folks and interview the potential instructors. Asking up front if the CFI is a "time builder with minimal teaching experience" or a "because I love flying and teaching" type is a key point.

Some items to ask about and listen for (others are invited to add to this list)
  • Cost: Is the instructor's per hour rate in line with others in the area
  • Ground Instruction:
    • When? You want to hear an instructor say he's willing to provide about 0.5hr to quickly review the prior lessons, then brief you on what this flight is going to cover. Then post flight provide 0.15-0.25hr to review the flight and assign homework for next flight.
      • An instructor I used for a short time wouldn't do any ground and would wait until we're in the aircraft with the motor running to provide a 10 minute brief on what we're going to do. Not only was this not as productive due to the additional distractions of the airplane and ramp environment, but I figured out it was an angle to increase his paycheck because I was also paying for 0.2-0.25hr of airplane rental (it was his airplane).
    • Cost: Should be about the same as the flying rate. But I've enountered some who had a different rate.
  • Use of a written syllabus: Lots of information exists to support that using a written syllabus improves the student's experience, improves the quality of the CFI's instruction, and helps to reduce the hours needed to gain the skills/knowledge to be ready for the DPE. The syllabus, as it's being checked off and notated, is a positive reinforcement tool for the student, allowing them to see how well they are progressing. Discovering an instructor who doesn't use one should be something of a red flag.
    • My instructors (I encountered 3 in a Part 61 environment) didn't use a written syllabus. And because of this, I estimate that we "wasted" about 5-8hrs cumulative since we weren't accurately tracking what was done, what was next, or following a proven progression of skills. I'm satisfied with the quality of the result, but it would've been nice to have saved the 1 AMU and put that toward post-PPL flying activities.
  • Exam preparation: You'd like to hear that assistance on preparing for the written an oral exams are part of the program. While lots of material exists for written exam self-study, it is helpful if the instructor would provide some review. Additionally, you want to hear the instructor is in favor and provides mock exams for the oral exam and checkrides. These can be of tremendous help to identify areas that need polish and to help eliminate exam jitters.
    • I didn't do a mock oral exam and really wish I did. While we did have some review sessions, we never did the "put Mike in the spotlight and see if he can perform". Come exam time, I was weak in a few key areas that we got through, but the DPE prefered that I knew those areas cold. Our time went much longer than we both desired.
  • References: Always ask for names and contact info about past students. Then go ask them what they thought about the instructor and information about how he or she conducts a lesson.
    • While I had done that for the instructor I mentioned above, I just asked, "Is he a good/safe instructor?" and the answer was always yes. But I didn't ask the probing questions of syllabus use, ground instruction, or personality. Unfortunately these three items stacked up to create a conflict with my way lof learning and eventually we parted ways.
This should provide you with something to start with. And as mentioned, others are welcome to add/comment.
 
I heard to stay away from "hour builders" as they may or may not be very good instructors.
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I wouldn't say it quite that way. Young, inexperienced CFIs can be excellent instructors. But what they don't have, by definition, is a lot of real-world experience. Basically they are a few pages in the book ahead of you.

Experience is what is important, not age. "Dual given" experience is one thing and is important in itself. But IIRC Part 61 it is theoretically possible for a CFII with 1000 hours dual given to have never filed IFR on his own, to have landed at only three airports, and to have never flown in a cloud.

I think one could argue that real world experience is more important for the instrument rating than for the Private, but IMHO it is important for both. There is an old quotation to the effect that you'd better learn from the mistakes of others, because you won't live long enough to make them all yourself.

My instrument instructor, whom I still fly with once in a while, is in the system multiple times per week in everything from light singles to a Navajo Chieftain, flying for several businesses. He's also typed in some flavor of Citation. I get the benefit of all that plus the benefit if what he's taught in his recurrent sim training at Flight Safety International. IMHO, the closer you can get to finding a guy like that (who can also teach), the better off you'll be.

Turn it on it's head: What if someone told you to seek out inexperienced instructors? You'd recognize that as crazy because you know, already, that experience counts.

I would spin AggieMike's excellent list slightly differently, putting real-world experience first and being less concerned about cost and about whether there is a written syllabus or not. The cost of the CFI is not a big fraction of your cost to train. An additional ten bucks an hour to get the best is well worth it. You'll get far more and, possibly, even pay less in total cost by getting your rating faster.

Re a syllabus, IMHO that is kind of a personal thing. If you are self-motivated, you will have been all over the 'net, ASA, Sporty's and King Schools, long before you walk through the door and be well-equipped to work with your instructor on each lesson. If you are more of a passive personality, a written program like the elaborate Jepp package might suit you better.

I got shot up after making similar comments in a thread a couple of months ago, but c'est la vie. I have learned something from every single instructor I've flown with, but I still seek out the experienced ones when I need some dual.
 
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airdale said:
I would spin AggieMike's excellent list slightly differently, putting real-world experience first and being less concerned about cost
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I guess I should qualify that cost wasn't at the top of the list because of importance. More it was the first thing I thought of. And the main point was to ensure that the rate quoted is in line with the region. Way higher needs to be justified in some way (quality? Recognized by many pilots as the best in the area?) and way lower also needs to be checked out to ensure it doesn't become a "you got what you paid for" mistake.

I still support the idea of a syllabus. I've spoken to a few pilots whose CFI used one and they all say it made a big difference. I think it's a key reason why other programs, such as PIC (www.iflyifr.com) and other immersive instrument courses are successful and highy recommended.
 
I still support the idea of a syllabus. I've spoken to a few pilots whose CFI used one and they all say it made a big difference. I think it's a key reason why other programs, such as PIC (www.iflyifr.com) and other immersive instrument courses are successful and highy recommended.
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I'm didn't mean to imply that the OP shouldn't consider your recommendation. But I think the syllabus' importance varies with the student. For my ratings, (PP, IA, Commercial) I have never had a syllabus and have not felt that it was an issue. For my wife's PP training she was given the Jeppeson tome and it worked well for her.
 
WBBulldogs said:
First of all I want to introduce myself. My name is Brandon. I'm currently stationed in Guam but forward deployed to Iraq. My plans are to return to Colorado in about a year to finish my degree and start flight school with a bit of money I have saved up. Some people say I'm thinking too far ahead since I am still a year from being able to do anything.

So here's my question: I've been looking at some flight schools in Colorado Springs and though I can't really decide by looking at the websites I have noticed something right off the bat. One school is almost all (relatively) young instructors while the other one has a lot of (I'll be nice) "wiser" instructors haha. I've always felt that the more experienced crowd is usually that way for a reason maybe because they have good communication skills. Is this necessarily true in aviation? I heard to stay away from "hour builders" as they may or may not be very good instructors. Any inputs on this?

Also if you guys have any inputs for the schools/clubs or free lance instructors in the Colorado Springs area that would be very helpful too. Thanks.
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Welcome to POA!
 
I would just add to the previous recommendations that you find a CFI that is available to fly when you are!

That was a big problem for me when looking for a CFI in Alaska. The one I really wanted to use was LITERALLY never available when I was. Our schedules were just too different. I finally found a guy that was pretty much willing to fly anytime (after flying commercial all week) and it worked out. He is a great teacher, great pilot, and our personalities were compatible.

Welcome to POA and good luck on your path to flying!
 
Definately fly with 2-3 different guys and pick one you have a rapport with. You will be spending a LOT of time with this person.
In my experience age is a poor predictor of quality instruction. Good instructors come in all age groups. The Young tend to know the regs, the old guys know whats really important. You need a little of both.
 
Much good advice on this thread, but i'll add that the instructor you should seek is a person with whom you have a rapore, and who you feel you can really trust. Your instructor will see you at your worst, and should be a person who you sense will help you, every step of the way. In a sense, the time you spend with your instructor is an information exchange: He or she will teach you how to fly, and you will teach him or her how to teach you. Seek loyalty. CFI experience varies wildly, so set some criteria, for instance: Hours dual given. I may catch some flak for my opinion, but some say it takes 1000hrs to get good at anything - including flight instruction. Ask how many hrs dual given. Ask how many students have taken succesful checkrides. How many have failed - and by the way an instructor who has never had a student fail hasn't been around long. Ask if the instructor has a specialty. Why? And an old trick, try to get a look at the instructor schedule. If one instructor is flying a lot more than anyone else, there may be a reason. And good luck!
 
You say you are returning for school. Will you still be in Active Reserves? Air Force Academy has a flight school open to active duty, active reserves, and retired. Cost of lesson is not listed online but 172 is $90 wet. I'm on Naval Air Station and club is more expensive. AF bases seem to be cheaper in general, probably more use to keep costs down.

Bet you can get started at Guam if you are going back there for any length of time.
 
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