Advice For Any Newly Cert'd Private Pilot

kimberlyanne546

kimberlyanne546

Final Approach
Joined
Jun 9, 2011
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Display name:
Kimberly
I need to write up my checkride story.

However, I want to share something with other pilots - something from my CFI which was sent to me via email.

You see, I emailed my CFI to ask what the DPE said about my checkride during the debrief they had. I was expecting constructive criticism, feedback, what to work on, etc.

Instead, I got this wonderful email which I think pretty much sums up the opinions of a lot of people here on POA (so nothing new but worth repeating regardless):

"Kimberly,

There is really nothing you need to "work on" because of the way your flight test went. What you need to work on is gaining experience in a safe manner. Going places, talking to ATC, filing flight plans, landing at other airports, continuing to conduct short and soft field takeoffs and landings, keeping up with weather briefs, continuing to maintain your knowledge level at your current level--at a minimum-, and oh yes, you are allowed to have a little fun too.

Be smart, and figure your performance, and follow the rules. There will be enough temptation to do otherwise. (that's another conversation).

As you have probably figured out most accidents are pilot error. That's actually great news for pilots who follow the rules, because they are far less likely to have an accident.

As for your scared and flaky passengers--it's not surprising given what most of the non-flying public knows about how many general aviation accidents there are. Just in the last month or so, the Mooney in Watsonville--killing all his family, and this last week a couple of Bonanzas went down for some reason. Perhaps the DPE told you that his brother was killed in an airplane accident?

Everybody knows someone who was killed in a small plane. Don't take it personally that people hesitate to fly with you. I was 18 when I got my Private, and thought that friends and family would be beating down my door to fly with me. After a while, I just stopped asking, and let it come up in conversation, and let others ask me to take them flying. In the mean time, just enjoy flying on your own, and gain more experience.

I did talk to the DPE about you, and he said you did a good job. But then we knew that would be the case otherwise I would not have signed you off for your flight test!!"



---------

See? Even my CFI gives great advice.
 
Kim, That email says good things about you but I must say it speaks volumes about your CFI. What a fantastic response! Here is some advice I have for you. Stick with this guy! use him for your BFRs your IR if you decide to get it and I even recommend flying with him everyonce and a while just to get some pointers. I am very impressed by his advice and attitude.

If you stick around POA long enough or research some of the older threads you will hear horror stories about what some folks are going through with their CFI's. Consider yourself very fortunate and follow the advice he gave you. Go have some fun and remember they call a PPcert a license to learn!
 
If you always remember that you don't know what you don't know, and always ask yourself "what will I do if this doesn't work as planned" and have a backup plan (or two or three) ready, you'll do fine.

I don't know how much time your CFI spent with you on risk management and aeronautical decision making, but I've got a powerpoint presentation I use for the topic and would be happy to pass it along.
 
AdamZ said:
Kim, That email says good things about you but I must say it speaks volumes about your CFI. What a fantastic response! Here is some advice I have for you. Stick with this guy! use him for your BFRs your IR if you decide to get it and I even recommend flying with him everyonce and a while just to get some pointers. I am very impressed by his advice and attitude.

If you stick around POA long enough or research some of the older threads you will hear horror stories about what some folks are going through with their CFI's. Consider yourself very fortunate and follow the advice he gave you. Go have some fun and remember they call a PPcert a license to learn!
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:yeahthat: I don't know your CFI but he's a hero of mine. Anyone who puts that sort of effort into his relationship with his student is someone I want to emulate.
 
I agree with Adam... it sounds like this guy really has a great sense of committment of excellence for his students.

The main thing to do is to keep flying. Continue to practice the things you learned. Start exploring and visiting other airports (improves your skill for navigation, communication, and safe integration into the pattern and landing at an unfamiliar location). Plan an execute some XC's that take you 1.5 to 2 hours one way.

Leading up to your eventual instrument rating, begin (or continue) refining the skills of holding a heading, holding an altitude for a long period, holding altitude during level turns (no climbing or descending), tracking radials and other skills that make you a more precise and confident pilot.

But mostly.... go out and have fun. You've worked hard for your license and now go enjoy it. Start going on fun outings, burger and pancake flights and more. Take cool pictures of what you see, both in flight and at the location you're visiting. Eventually when your friends start seeing that you're having more fun than they are, they will ask to take part and see just what you're making such a fuss over.
 
Adam,

Thank you for your thoughtful response. Remember, I was told all along to fire my CFI and this was for MANY reasons . . . but I knew he was a "good" CFI the entire time, just not the right one for me.

I may very well use him for a BFR, and to get a "check out" in the 172, but in terms of "regular" contact I have located a CFI who lives in the same town as myself and is not nearly as busy / hard to schedule time with. We are meeting this Saturday for one hour "ground" at a local coffee shop to review my TAC and flight plan for my first ever pax flight over / around the Golden Gate Bridge. It makes sense, to me, to reach out to new CFI's for when I have questions. I realize I could go to my old CFI and probably even get those questions answered for free, but there were things said / done that I don't agree with during my training so I need to move on.

It is sort of tough to explain. Funny how he can be good in some ways and bad in others. Deep down a lot of CFI's on here and on SP agree with him in the fundamentals, and all of us are sure I did get great training in some ways - the ways that will be important later on.

One example: on our last flight together before the checkride, he wanted me to change the way I do run ups. I said "why". He said "you're going to be a pilot now. You need to think about where the airplane will go if the brakes fail. Pointing the nose not EXACTLY into the wind and yet a few degrees off, towards the taxiway back to the parking area, is a MUCH better plan in case things go wrong."

He makes me THINK about EVERYTHING. A great teacher.
 
TMetzinger said:
If you always remember that you don't know what you don't know, and always ask yourself "what will I do if this doesn't work as planned" and have a backup plan (or two or three) ready, you'll do fine.

I don't know how much time your CFI spent with you on risk management and aeronautical decision making, but I've got a powerpoint presentation I use for the topic and would be happy to pass it along.
Click to expand...

Sure. I'll PM you.
 
Now, go fly -- especially new places farther from home and, if you expect to pursue your IR, using ATC services ("flight following").
 
One idea to support your instructor, find out about how he conducts and prices discovery flights. And if he is willing to provide you a discount on them. This would allow you to purchase an affordable flying gift for someone.

Tell them it's to play on their sense of adventure and that they can be one of the few who say they were a pilot, even for 45 minutes.

This idea would serve both to support your instructor with more flying business, and perhaps convince your friends it is a safe, fun, and useful activity they can share with you.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
There is really nothing you need to "work on" because of the way your flight test went. What you need to work on is gaining experience in a safe manner.
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Can't say I'm surprised at any of the CFI's comments. Seemed as though you were well on your way, knew the basics and were able to safely fly the airplane.

Congrats!! :cheerswine:

Realize you had some "issues" with the CFI, but from reading this, I'd have to agree with the others that he did a good job of prepping you for the flight.

Gary
 
AggieMike88 said:
One idea to support your instructor, find out about how he conducts and prices discovery flights. And if he is willing to provide you a discount on them. This would allow you to purchase an affordable flying gift for someone.

Tell them it's to play on their sense of adventure and that they can be one of the few who say they were a pilot, even for 45 minutes.

This idea would serve both to support your instructor with more flying business, and perhaps convince your friends it is a safe, fun, and useful activity they can share with you.
Click to expand...

He HATES discovery flights and in fact I don't think he does them. People often wander in to the flight school after watching airplanes all day. They want to fly. He scares them all off, most never to return, by telling them about the 800 question (study questions) private pilot knowledge test. He tells them to come back and see him when they have passed the written test, which costs about $150 - $200. Basically, a lot of people “think” they want to fly but aren’t committed. He is so busy with about 5 – 15 full time students that I guess he doesn’t want to waste time with one time flyers. Sorry, another reason I want to move on – though I had a good instructor he just wasn’t that “enthusiastic”.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
He HATES discovery flights and in fact I don't think he does them. People often wander in to the flight school after watching airplanes all day. They want to fly. He scares them all off, most never to return, by telling them about the 800 question (study questions) private pilot knowledge test. He tells them to come back and see him when they have passed the written test, which costs about $150 - $200. Basically, a lot of people “think” they want to fly but aren’t committed. He is so busy with about 5 – 15 full time students that I guess he doesn’t want to waste time with one time flyers. Sorry, another reason I want to move on – though I had a good instructor he just wasn’t that “enthusiastic”.
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Yeah, I agree, I think discovery flights are a marketing tool, at least the few schools I know about would be lucky to break even on them, sending folks for a half hour joy ride who have no intention of following through with flight training is probably doing your flight school a disservice.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
though I had a good instructor he just wasn’t that “enthusiastic”.
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Ahhh... I didn't read all of your past contributions that provided clues like this.

Still keep the idea in your pocket for when you do find a good, available, and passionate about aviation and new students CFI.
 
I think the "i wont train you until you pass the written" attitude is ... Poor. Once you start flying and can apply what you are studying to what you're actually doing, it becomes much easier.

Also you can't become hooked on flying by not flying. Once you become really excited about flying, its much easier to immerse yourself in study materials and focus on passing the written.


P.S congrats again on getting your ticket.
 
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AggieMike88 said:
Envy.... Serious envy

Most of what I get to look at are pasture, cows, and housing developments.
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We have cows, sheep, and pasture . . . at takeoff. My airport is in the countryside. Cool how SF is less than an hour away! Best of both worlds, I guess.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
He HATES discovery flights and in fact I don't think he does them. People often wander in to the flight school after watching airplanes all day. They want to fly. He scares them all off, most never to return, by telling them about the 800 question (study questions) private pilot knowledge test. He tells them to come back and see him when they have passed the written test, which costs about $150 - $200. Basically, a lot of people “think” they want to fly but aren’t committed. He is so busy with about 5 – 15 full time students that I guess he doesn’t want to waste time with one time flyers. Sorry, another reason I want to move on – though I had a good instructor he just wasn’t that “enthusiastic”.
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Too bad he feels that way. It's attitudes like that which not only discourage potential students and future pilots but also create negative attitudes towards GA among the general public. Even if they never fly again, that one flight may turn folks into good airport neighbors and allies against DHS rather than enemies bent on grounding "those elitist snobs in their little airplanes."
 
AggieMike88 said:
Ahhh... I didn't read all of your past contributions that provided clues like this.

Still keep the idea in your pocket for when you do find a good, available, and passionate about aviation and new students CFI.
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Right, what I have been trying to say (all along) is that he is a good instructor, but his ATTITUDE is not my favorite. He would almost NEVER praise me . . . he said it was wasted and ignored if overused. Caused me a lot of personal hell (crying, frustration, wanting to quit). I now know not only was I doing "just fine" but in some cases I was doing well - ! Hindsight is 20/20 I guess.
 
Ron Levy said:
Too bad he feels that way. It's attitudes like that which not only discourage potential students and future pilots but also create negative attitudes towards GA among the general public. Even if they never fly again, that one flight may turn folks into good airport neighbors and allies against DHS rather than enemies bent on grounding "those elitist snobs in their little airplanes."
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Agreed. But in terms of "business" he is doing just fine, and doesn't work for the flight school (works for himself), so these one timers don't really benefit him in the long run. Students like me, however, who will be back for BFR's, further training, etc . . . are his bread and butter.
 
bartmc said:
Yeah, I agree, I think discovery flights are a marketing tool, at least the few schools I know about would be lucky to break even on them, sending folks for a half hour joy ride who have no intention of following through with flight training is probably doing your flight school a disservice.
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This is EXACTLY how he feels. I remember my first discovery flight (at another school) was either $49 or $99 and they had a great website. They are now out of business.
 
Congratulations on passing your checkride.

I think it's a good idea to check other CFIs. You never know, you may like someone else better. I liked my PP CFI okay, but towards the end I thought he wasn't so great and left me feeling unprepared. So then I scouted out other CFIs for my IR, and I think the guy I found is so much better, so much better at teaching and explaining and pointing out what I'm not doing right. He's a furloughed airline pilot, and I hope for my benefit (not his I'm sure) that he doesn't get recalled before I pass my IR. Anyway, after I started with him, I was peeved at myself for wasting so much money on the other not-so-great CFI. I wish I left that guy much, much earlier. So check them all out! Some truly are better than others.

Where I fly isn't so exciting, but I've flown to First Flight a few times, and that's fun.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Agreed. But in terms of "business" he is doing just fine, and doesn't work for the flight school (works for himself), so these one timers don't really benefit him in the long run. Students like me, however, who will be back for BFR's, further training, etc . . . are his bread and butter.
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That's shortsighted and selfish. If everyone had that attitude, there would be no students like you to service, and no airports at which to service them.
 
Ron Levy said:
That's shortsighted and selfish. If everyone had that attitude, there would be no students like you to service, and no airports at which to service them.
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I know. I tried several times to contact my discovery flight instructor, who had been welcoming and even thrilled about flight and aviation and adventure. None of us (even the others who know him) have been able to reach him which is a shame. I had the best time with him and I know FOR CERTAIN that flight is why I started my lessons and ultimately got my certificate. This is why I'm "shopping" now for a fun, new CFI.... someone to keep me flying and keep me safe, while still having a good time.
 
bluee said:
Congratulations on passing your checkride.

I think it's a good idea to check other CFIs. You never know, you may like someone else better. I liked my PP CFI okay, but towards the end I thought he wasn't so great and left me feeling unprepared. So then I scouted out other CFIs for my IR, and I think the guy I found is so much better, so much better at teaching and explaining and pointing out what I'm not doing right. He's a furloughed airline pilot, and I hope for my benefit (not his I'm sure) that he doesn't get recalled before I pass my IR. Anyway, after I started with him, I was peeved at myself for wasting so much money on the other not-so-great CFI. I wish I left that guy much, much earlier. So check them all out! Some truly are better than others.

Where I fly isn't so exciting, but I've flown to First Flight a few times, and that's fun.
Click to expand...

Great advice, thanks. I "have time" now to shop and research. We'll see how Saturday goes with this new CFI as a ground instructor. He flies out of an airport down south with much more expensive planes like Cirrus, not sure if I could afford to fly with him. I know him through a few places (WINGS, 99s, others).... and he came highly recommended.
 
Every flight should be somewhere and something new. I've described my giant sectional outside my office before, where I get a new pin every time I land somewhere new. New conditions (turf, dirt, occluded etc...), new experiences.

I second the work with another CFI. New people bring in new knowledge and new viewpoints. But I'll echo what I said to my pal the other day, if all you learn is what the CFI taught you, you'll never be a better pilot.
 
Congrats Kimberly on getting your PPL, I know you worked very hard for it. The next thing you should do is a good basic aerobatic/tailwheel course. It is the one thing that will make you a much better pilot and is a great confidence builder. It is also FUN!! Don
 
Kim,

As you were in the early to mid portion of your training while openly and honestly sharing your feelings and frustrations in detail, I was thinking that your instructor was either milking you or he was a really thorough instructor. I even wrote that within some of your threads. I am really pleased that he turned out to be the latter as opposed to the former.

Have a great day,
Doc
 
AggieMike88 said:
But mostly.... go out and have fun. You've worked hard for your license and now go enjoy it. Start going on fun outings, burger and pancake flights and more. Take cool pictures of what you see, both in flight and at the location you're visiting. Eventually when your friends start seeing that you're having more fun than they are, they will ask to take part and see just what you're making such a fuss over.
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Most of my friends are adamant about not flying in little airplanes. Fine. So I don't bring it up. But once in a while...they'll call and want to plan something for the weekend. I'm usually not available because I've already got a trip planned. Taos or Santa Fe - in time for lunch, wander a few galleries and home in time for dinner (WX permitting, of course). ABQ for the balloon festival (overnight trip, of course) is another favorite.
 
yakdriver said:
Congrats Kimberly on getting your PPL, I know you worked very hard for it. The next thing you should do is a good basic aerobatic/tailwheel course. It is the one thing that will make you a much better pilot and is a great confidence builder. It is also FUN!! Don
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Well, it is one thing, not the one thing. :) An IR will also make her a better pilot, albeit without quite as much fun, though more utility. Either way, the key is to keep flying and keep learning!
 
murphey said:
Most of my friends are adamant about not flying in little airplanes. Fine. So I don't bring it up. But once in a while...they'll call and want to plan something for the weekend. I'm usually not available because I've already got a trip planned. Taos or Santa Fe - in time for lunch, wander a few galleries and home in time for dinner (WX permitting, of course). ABQ for the balloon festival (overnight trip, of course) is another favorite.
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Santa Fe is on my list of places for a 3-day weekend trip. Very inconvenient to get there via SWA and then drive. But a simple hop in a piston single.

So is going to visit Jay's place

So is going to Frederiksburg and the Hangar Hotel
 
AggieMike88 said:
Santa Fe is on my list of places for a 3-day weekend trip. Very inconvenient to get there via SWA and then drive. But a simple hop in a piston single.

So is going to visit Jay's place

So is going to Frederiksburg and the Hangar Hotel
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~~~~~~~~~~ or coming out West.:yesnod:
 
TMetzinger said:
:yeahthat: I don't know your CFI but he's a hero of mine. Anyone who puts that sort of effort into his relationship with his student is someone I want to emulate.
Click to expand...

Yep. I agree. That's the mark of an instructor I'd like. The CFII I use out of HEF is that way. And it's the same kind of attitude/relationship that I found with the DPE Charlie McDougal.

AggieMike88 said:
Santa Fe is on my list of places for a 3-day weekend trip. Very inconvenient to get there via SWA and then drive. But a simple hop in a piston single.

So is going to visit Jay's place

So is going to Frederiksburg and the Hangar Hotel
Click to expand...

Santa Fe - worth the trip.
Fredericksburg/Hangar Hotel - worth the trip. Heck, if I didn't want to fly, I'd drive from San Antonio.

Jeanie said:
~~~~~~~~~~ or coming out West.:yesnod:
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I don't know you, Jeanie, but I've met Dr. Dave and some other folks in Alpine. I didn't get to Terlingua as I had an uncomfortable passenger on a turbulent day, but Big Bend area is worth the visit.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
He HATES discovery flights and in fact I don't think he does them. People often wander in to the flight school after watching airplanes all day. They want to fly. He scares them all off, most never to return, by telling them about the 800 question (study questions) private pilot knowledge test. He tells them to come back and see him when they have passed the written test, which costs about $150 - $200. Basically, a lot of people “think” they want to fly but aren’t committed. He is so busy with about 5 – 15 full time students that I guess he doesn’t want to waste time with one time flyers. Sorry, another reason I want to move on – though I had a good instructor he just wasn’t that “enthusiastic”.
Click to expand...

That is such a shame. General Aviation is on the endangered species list these days and I would think anyone relying on it for their livelihood would be doing everything possible to promote it. He's ultimately shooting himself in the foot.

Back to your original question (and excellent advice from your CFI), I would add the following: Read everything you can on aviation. Join AOPA and read their magazine cover to cover. Same for Flying magazine. Even when you can't fly reading about it will keep your head in the game.

Ultimately, pursue advanced ratings. Never stop learning. You'll be challenging yourself and will be a safer pilot as a result.

Congrats on you checkride!
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Adam,

Thank you for your thoughtful response. Remember, I was told all along to fire my CFI and this was for MANY reasons . . . but I knew he was a "good" CFI the entire time, just not the right one for me.

I may very well use him for a BFR, and to get a "check out" in the 172, but in terms of "regular" contact I have located a CFI who lives in the same town as myself and is not nearly as busy / hard to schedule time with. We are meeting this Saturday for one hour "ground" at a local coffee shop to review my TAC and flight plan for my first ever pax flight over / around the Golden Gate Bridge. It makes sense, to me, to reach out to new CFI's for when I have questions. I realize I could go to my old CFI and probably even get those questions answered for free, but there were things said / done that I don't agree with during my training so I need to move on.

It is sort of tough to explain. Funny how he can be good in some ways and bad in others. Deep down a lot of CFI's on here and on SP agree with him in the fundamentals, and all of us are sure I did get great training in some ways - the ways that will be important later on.

One example: on our last flight together before the checkride, he wanted me to change the way I do run ups. I said "why". He said "you're going to be a pilot now. You need to think about where the airplane will go if the brakes fail. Pointing the nose not EXACTLY into the wind and yet a few degrees off, towards the taxiway back to the parking area, is a MUCH better plan in case things go wrong."

He makes me THINK about EVERYTHING. A great teacher.
Click to expand...
FWIW, testing by the folks at GAMI have shown that at least in some airplanes (i.e. the ones they tested which were probably Bonanzas) pointing the nose into the wind for runnup actually makes the engine cooling worse than pointing it away from the wind. I can say that since I stopped worrying about the wind and paying more attention to where my prop blast is going and what's in front of me that I might slide into or suck into the prop I've never had any issues with engines getting too hot during a runnup. Of course I've also learned how to do a runnup without working the engine for several minutes at high power. YRMV.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Wow, lots of SF area pilots and planes! Thank you - !
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The first three weeks of the semester, I don't get around a lot. I missed the great day. CONGRATS.

I can't find the documentary you said you were going to do on your checkride. Did I just miss it or is it posted somewhere else?

Thanks,

Jim
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
He HATES discovery flights and in fact I don't think he does them. People often wander in to the flight school after watching airplanes all day. They want to fly. He scares them all off, most never to return, by telling them about the 800 question (study questions) private pilot knowledge test. He tells them to come back and see him when they have passed the written test, which costs about $150 - $200. Basically, a lot of people “think” they want to fly but aren’t committed. He is so busy with about 5 – 15 full time students that I guess he doesn’t want to waste time with one time flyers. Sorry, another reason I want to move on – though I had a good instructor he just wasn’t that “enthusiastic”.
Click to expand...

Ha. I was told the same by one flight school instructor. I didn't want the Discovery Flight, I wanted to start training right away. He told me to get the written exam passed first them go talk to him. I didn't. I went and found a great instructor at a flight club and had my cert within 12 months.
 
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