ADSB to GTN650

Discussion in 'Avionics and Upgrades' started by C_Parker, May 4, 2019.

  1. C_Parker

    C_Parker Pre-Flight

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    I had a new stratus transponder installed last fall and at the time I had convinced myself I didn't need the more expensive Garmin transponder... but now I'm on the fence about adding a GTN-650. I assume Appero and Garmin don't talk. Will I basically need to buy another component to feed ADSB in into the 650 if I get one?
     
  2. Jesse Saint

    Jesse Saint Pre-takeoff checklist

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    You will need some ADS-B receiver that will talk to the GTN650 if you want traffic & weather on the 650. It’s a small screen, but it does work well for the screen size.

    If you consider an Avidyne GPS, there are more options for receivers.
     
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  3. C_Parker

    C_Parker Pre-Flight

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    I'm wondering if it's even worth worrying about. I have an iPad on the yolk with a much larger display that is easier to see anyways? I just don't want to get a funky arrangement that will turn off a potential buyer down the road.
     
  4. Jesse Saint

    Jesse Saint Pre-takeoff checklist

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    It won’t be as valuable without In on the 650, but the difference in value will be less than the difference in cost. You’re right that the iPad is better than the 650 for viewing ADS-B data.
     
  5. MBDiagMan

    MBDiagMan En-Route

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    To answer the question will you fly IFR? You can’t legally shoot approaches with a pad.

    If you have good radios why not go with a 375? It would give you everything in one box and your Appareo has good value on the used market which would offset a good chunk of the 375 expense. The 375 gives the navigator and ADS-B transponder without a radio like the 650.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2019
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  6. Jesse Saint

    Jesse Saint Pre-takeoff checklist

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    The iPad wouldn’t be used as a navigator for flying approaches. The 650 would. The iPad is legal to be used for approach plates and ads-b weather and traffic viewing. Just saying.
     
  7. Flybuddy

    Flybuddy Pre-Flight

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    What are the options for receivers with the Avidyne?
     
  8. C_Parker

    C_Parker Pre-Flight

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    Looks like Appero doesn't talk to Avidyne either. As popular as they are, I have got to think compatibility will improve?
     
  9. MBDiagMan

    MBDiagMan En-Route

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    The Appareo provides pad IN via a Stratus. I wouldn’t look for it to ever connect to any of the IN to any of the Garmin offerings unless Garmin decides to receive IN via wireless or Bluetooth and I won’t hold my breath for that.

    The Appareo is a good OUT solution if you are happy with pad IN. I have one in my Cessna that was given to me really cheap by a friend who was putting in a 650 and had to replace it with a 345 to feed the Garmin. The Appareo has a Stratus mounted permanently to the back and has an AHRS sensor mounted that feeds my pad. Great setup for a VFR plane.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2019
  10. chemgeek

    chemgeek Line Up and Wait

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    To be honest, the weather and traffic displays are much better on your tablet EFB than on a GPS navigator. I prefer keeping the navigator page on my GNS-430 plain and simple clear nav/approach display. The weather and traffic goes to my Android tablet which is mounted to the yoke. Of course, I also have a secondary traffic and weather display on my Lynx NGT-9000 screen, which is a bonus.
     
  11. MBDiagMan

    MBDiagMan En-Route

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    When flying on instruments I prefer having traffic on bothe the 430 and Foreflight. While trying to keep the top side up on instrumentsseeing traffic on the 430 keeps me from having to interrupt my scan to look down. Additionally, I feel that the 430 has a much better chance of continuing to operate than the pad. Personal preference, that’s all. I am a belt and suspenders guy. Many years of developing automation systems made mea strong fan of redundancy.
     
  12. Jesse Saint

    Jesse Saint Pre-takeoff checklist

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    The Avidyne will take weather and traffics from a Freeflight, Lynx, Navworx, AFS, and I’m sure others. Those are the 4 I know of.
     
  13. NordicDave

    NordicDave Line Up and Wait

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    There are a lot of pilots in your situation, who swore they'd never upgrade to a new GPS and just installed the ESG with a Stratus. This can't connect to a certified device, since the ADS-B data is uncertified from the stratus. Only certified ADS-B IN equipment can send data to a certified display like the GTN-650. I've had 2 friends remove their ESG transponders after less then 1 1/2 and the other 2 years, just to replace them with GTX-345 units.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2019
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  14. NordicDave

    NordicDave Line Up and Wait

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    Our philosophies are very similar. I did the minimum to upgrade to a reliable panel powered system that works well with Foreflight on the iPad. My plane had an old KMA 24 audio panel with a 430 and king transponder. A new PSE 450A, Garmin 430 WAAS upgrade, GTX-345, ACK-406 ELT, and other small upgrades were less then $15K after all rebates and selling legacy gear.

    The fuller story is here, with pictures: http://welch.com/n46pg/category/avionics/
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2019
  15. SloRoam

    SloRoam Filing Flight Plan

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    On what basis? Where is this in the regulations?

    AC 20-172b covers ads-b in and states that it is advisory and doesn't relieve the pilot of responsibility. It also has requirements, and I could see a reading that a manufacturer must get a stc... But I'm not seeing stcs for "in"...

    Garmin's "certified" 345 has an stc that covers "out" but didn't mention in...STC SA01714WI

    TSO-C195b, Avionics Supporting Automatic Dependent Surveillance – Broadcast (ADS-B) Aircraft
    Surveillance Applications (ASA) has requirements so would somebody say that the Garmin meets this tso?

    For instance, what certification does ads-b receiver need, precisely? I was looking at a receiver which is certified for installation in certificated aircraft, and has gdl 90 output format, and serial output, so I could connect it to any number of navigators right?

    https://store.openflightsolutions.com/collections/flightbox-ads-b/products/flightbox-pro


    But what certification is required to connect it? Ads b is advisory right? It's not used for navigation and doesn't replace a required capability or supercede anything.

    Not trying to be combative, just seems silly not to add good information when that is clearly the intent of the faa per every tso I have read on ads b in...
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2019
  16. NordicDave

    NordicDave Line Up and Wait

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    It's a good question. I don't have the regs handy, but data from a Stratus or Stratux puck cannot be displayed on a certified device. Data can pass the certified/uncertified barrier when the PIC verifies a data set as legitimate and accurate. This works when passing a flight plan from ForeFlight/Garmin Pilot on the iPad to a certified GPS panel device, but not practical for the continuous data changes occurring with ADS-B traffic and weather. The FAA made an exception for static data like flight plans, but not dynamic data like FIS-B.

    This is the big Achilles heel of the Appreo ESG and Stratus combo. It's certified OUT and uncertified IN. The IN content can be displayed on an iPad for example, but on any certified panel display.

    The GTX-345 is certified ADS-B data both In and OUT.

    Hope that was helpful.

    -David
     
  17. SloRoam

    SloRoam Filing Flight Plan

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    NordicDave, appreciate the data, but while people keep saying xyz is certified in, I can not find anything in the Garmin docs to that effect.

    Could this all be an old wives tale about certified in?
     
  18. NordicDave

    NordicDave Line Up and Wait

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    If you're in doubt, just call Appareo and ask them if ADS-B IN data from their uncertified pucks can be displayed on certified panels for the ESG product. The answer is no. Also ask your local avionics shop, they will give the same answer regarding any uncertified ASD-B IN gear.

    Of course we're talking about Type certified aircraft, experimental's are a different story.

    -David
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2019