ADS-B fly in pancake breakfast in central AR

[Unit74]

Anyone else going to be there? Be nice to put a face with the handle.




FAA Safety Team | Safer Skies Through Education
You have asked us to notify you when a seminar is scheduled that meets your criteria. The following seminar may be of interest to you:

"ADS-B Fly-in and EAA Breakfast"
Topic: ADS-B and there will be Reps from Garmin, Aspen and FreeFlight
On Saturday, July 19, 2014 at 8:00 AM
Location:
Grider FIeld Pine BLuff, AR
709 Hangar Road

Pine Bluff, AR 71603
Select Number:
SW1156476

Description:

This event is being sponsored by Tomlinson Avionics, EAA chapter 1388 and the FAA. There is no cost for the seminar that starts at 10:00 am, but the EAA Chapter will have Breakfast at their hanger at 08:00 for $7.00 and after the seminars at about 12:00 Tomlinson ‘s will be cooking hot dogs chips and drinks at their hangar. Door prizes will be awarded throughout the day and Full service fuel will be discounted .25/gallon. Come out and join us and get the answers you need about ADS-B.

To view further details and registration information for this seminar, click here.

The sponsor for this seminar is: FAASTeam

The FAA Safety Team (FAASTeam) is committed to providing equal access to this meeting/event for all participants. If you need alternative formats or services because of a disability, please communicate your request as soon as possible with the person in the 'Contact Information' area of the meeting/event notice. Note that two weeks is usually required to arrange services.

The following credit(s) are available for the WINGS/AMT Programs:

Basic Knowledge 3 - 1 Credit
AMT: 1.00

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[denverpilot]

Uhh. An avionics sales pitch with pancakes?

I can think if a whole lot more fun stuff to do than that.

Plus at their prices they should be buying steak.

 

[Unit74]

Not sure what planet you reside on, but it's an FAA event, gives Wings credit and $7 for breakfast you can't even do at that McDonalds these days. Who cares if a vendor is going to be there..... Maybe you should not go to AirVenture as well. Nothing but a bunch of timeshare salesmen there anyway. Plus the hot dogs are over priced.

I for one am very interested in this whole ADSB situation since it is going to happen in short time.

 

[denverpilot]

Not sure what planet you reside on, but it's an FAA event, gives Wings credit and $7 for breakfast you can't even do at that McDonalds these days. Who cares if a vendor is going to be there..... Maybe you should not go to AirVenture as well. Nothing but a bunch of timeshare salesmen there anyway. Plus the hot dogs are over priced.



I for one am very interested in this whole ADSB situation since it is going to happen in short time.

Hmm. Let's see.

- Earth. Is there another?

- Wings credit. Be still my beating heart.

- An EggMuffin and coffee is still below $7 here. Sausage even, if you're feeling up to heartburn.

- I definitely don't go to AirVenture to buy stuff. My two interactions with vendors were to tell the Lightspeed guy who approached me first that my Sierra was plastic junk and falling apart, and to ask the Honeywell/BK folks when they expected their GPS to actually hit the market since Garmin has a lock on it. They stared blankly so I played with the mock-up and promptly found two bugs in it. They acted like they knew it was just a mock up and went back to handing out BK t-shirts.

(I'd say other than a handful, most vendors at OSH aren't prepared at all for someone willing to write a check for $10K. You'd have to hunt pretty hard at the major manufacturer's booths to find an actual businessperson who had authority to deal. They'd hand you a card and tell you to call them after the show.)

- Hot dog? Heck you can get whatever you like up the road at the Country Buffet. Or buy stuff to grill yourself. I hear Friar Tucks is good. Never been. Sounds crowded. Ice cream carts are worth every overpriced penny, though.


- The vendor isn't just "going to be there" by that description. The vendors are giving the presentation. Maybe I read it wrong. It still ranks right up there with attending a timeshare pitch though, you got that part right! Heh.

ADS-B is even more expensive, on borrowed money, than a timeshare, and offers even less than the average timeshare in usefulness.

All you really need to know about ADS-B in a light aircraft is that it'll cost you about $10 large. And you'll get AOL dial-up speed modem-style weather graphics for that.

 

[Unit74]

Wow..... Just wow.

Your post reminds me of the guy who burns around the pattern, no comms, goes the wrong way of all the rest of the bugs mashers, slides in on people on final and on the ground tell them they are the ones who are wrong.

Your whole post is full of anti this and anti that. I honestly don't think anyone cares what you think on the matter. I didn't ASK for an opinion on the event. I ASKED if anyone else was going. Your failure to read the post has clearly sent you sideways to spew your hate of vendors, FAA, hot dogs or anything else you can latch on to.

Please don't trash my thread anymore than you already have. I wanted to meet up with down to earth pilots from the board, not pessimists who hate all things not aligned with their beliefs on what ADSB is and pancake haters. I want ADSB and I like pancakes.

 

[ARFlyer]

Anyone else going to be there? Be nice to put a face with the handle.

I'll be there. I'll most likely be in one of our schools Maules. I might end up taking one that needs an IFR cert anyway.

 

[madtrader]

I might be there. I've got a rental scheduled for that morning, but we'll see what weather and life do.

 

[denverpilot]

Wow..... Just wow.



Your post reminds me of the guy who burns around the pattern, no comms, goes the wrong way of all the rest of the bugs mashers, slides in on people on final and on the ground tell them they are the ones who are wrong.



Your whole post is full of anti this and anti that. I honestly don't think anyone cares what you think on the matter. I didn't ASK for an opinion on the event. I ASKED if anyone else was going. Your failure to read the post has clearly sent you sideways to spew your hate of vendors, FAA, hot dogs or anything else you can latch on to.



Please don't trash my thread anymore than you already have. I wanted to meet up with down to earth pilots from the board, not pessimists who hate all things not aligned with their beliefs on what ADSB is and pancake haters. I want ADSB and I like pancakes.

Awww. Trash the thread is a bit much. Pretty thin skin there.

You'd be wrong on all counts on the BS guesses about me, by the way. But thanks for the personal insults against forum rules.

I'd go if I was anywhere close, to see ARFlyer and catch up. Haven't seen him since Gaston's a few years ago. Might even make it to Gaston's again this fall if the stars align.

If you want to make it fun, ask pointed questions about what you'll specifically get for billions in borrowed tax dollars to build the infrastructure and $10K or more in the panel.

I can answer the questions and spare ya the hour of sales pitches if you like...

The average GA pilot will get one thing. Weather graphics on board that are seriously delayed and blocky to the point of only being useful for general weather avoidance.

Take notes. See if I'm wrong. Seriously.

You'll hear lots of stuff about better separation from other traffic. At airports you don't fly to.

And if pressed, they'll agree they still need all the radars that do that job today.

ADS-B won't be primary for traffic separation for light aircraft, ever. It isn't engineered to be that. And can't be reengineered to do it.

(There is a technology that is. Wide Area Multilateralization. Look it up. It's primary in places radars can't reach. Today. All that's required on board is the same transponder you have already. It's insanely cheap to deploy too.)

I'm not against technology. I'm against billion dollar technology deployments with outdated engineering for virtually no gain in anything.

Civilian GPS? That was a game-changer. Well worth the money.

ADS-B? Nope. Not a snowballs chance in Hades of it ever being more than a low speed data link with virtually no purpose. That's all it is.

Been engineering tech stuff my whole adult life. I know a boondoggle when I see one. It ain't personal. It's fact.

Seriously. Take notes. Report back. It's no skin off my nose. If you're bored ask the Garmin guy how much to put it in your airplane today. If you're really bold, ask him what his commission is.

Take the list of stuff you'll get from the presentation and assign a dollar amount you find it to be worth to each item. Now make the total of all two or three things you'll gain, add up equal to his number.

Pancakes are cool. Fly-ins are cool. Seeing your buddies at them is even cooler. Seeing airplanes is cool.

Sales guys on stage as a "safety" seminar with implied government support in the form of credit toward a flight review replacement program? Not really cool.

But an excellent opportunity to ask some hard questions!

"So you're saying that for the low price of $15K and billions with a B, on ground stations, I get 1990s quality blocky free radar images and METARs I could have read before departure -- unless the flight is two hours long? Okay what else do I get? Nothing. Seriously? Nothing? Wow. And this is going to be mandated by law? Impressive. Ok. Going to finish my pancakes now."

I do hope they bring this manufacturer sponsored dog and pony show somewhere closer. It'd be fun to ask -- unless y'all beat me to it.

The ADS-B emperor has no clothes. The sad part is, they're not embarrassed at all about how little it does for how massive a price tag.

Sorry if you took offense to me giving away the ending to the show. The info is readily available.

But you're right. It actually would be interesting to see if the manufacturers could keep a straight face when they tell ya how much it'll cost and how very little you'll be getting in return.

For a more Arkansas kind of flair, "so you're telling me that slapping lipstick and a turbo on this pig cost that much?"

LOL!

Pancakes are tasty. No doubt about it.

Have fun if you go. I'm certainly not stoping ya. Ask the questions. Report back. It'll be interesting.

 

[MarkZ]

ADSB is proposed to do more than WX updates.

Wish I could make the hike down there, sounds like it could be informative...with food too!

 

[Clark1961]

ADSB is proposed to do more than WX updates.

The traffic side is turning out to be useful. I can see situations developing and avoid any conflict with less effort. The best example so far might be one time when I was about 30 miles out from FTG and I could "see" another aircraft on a parallel course about 5 miles away. By slowing just a bit I dropped behind him and sequenced for arrival at FTG. I thought it was a slick way to work it out rather than have FTG tower sequence us in the last 10 miles.

The traffic isn't perfect but it is better than just eyeballs.

 

[timwinters]

For those of you going, take your piece if you have one. Pine Bluff Is the most dangerous mid-sized city in the nation.

 

[BillTIZ]

Hey, it sounds like a great deal to me!
Breakfast, a talk from a radio shop on ADSB and probably installation problems and time lines, plus some reps with new toys on display and ready to play 20 questions. The Wings credit. Then the radio shop is offering a lunch and the local fuel pumps are offering a 25 centavos per gallon discount. And prizes given out during the day.

Sounds like a great way to spend a morning with other like minded aviation individuals.

And yes, I am an FAASTeam Representative.

 

[ARFlyer]

For those of you going, take your piece if you have one. Pine Bluff Is the most dangerous mid-sized city in the nation.

Well, I won't be leaving the airport. I avoid that city like the plague. The only other place I avoid like that is SW Little Rock.

 

[ARFlyer]

Nate- My dad and his friend had a good laugh the other night when I explained NextGen and ADS-B. They are both in the telecom/radio industry.

My dad's friend said something along the lines of "Wow, brainwashing people to believe that an all digital GPS sat based ATC system is safer. I guess if you add the word digital it makes it all better."

 

[denverpilot]

Nate- My dad and his friend had a good laugh the other night when I explained NextGen and ADS-B. They are both in the telecom/radio industry.



My dad's friend said something along the lines of "Wow, brainwashing people to believe that an all digital GPS sat based ATC system is safer. I guess if you add the word digital it makes it all better."

LOL! That about sums it up.

--- an aside for the radio geeks ---

Kinda like stand-alone non-linked radio repeaters on digital formats in the Ham world, to take a side-trip into how well "It's Digital!l works on modern marketing targets.

Some folks built an almost Statewide DMR system here with IP linking. Now THAT is useful. But it's been done before on analog.

$30K is their running estimate on what it cost them.

---- aside end ----

Clark, I like your application of the tech, but you've described a "nice to have" and not something worthy of mandated use, wouldn't you agree?

I'm a techno geek. I'm cool with new toys in the cockpit. For all the money spent, this particular toy isn't worth it.

Maybe some future politician will find it so useful they turn it off, like LORAN-C.

 

[Unit74]

Pretty informative.... Made sense of the mess for me.

I could have done without the Avidyne guy selling his stuff and not even talking about ADSB, but the other two presenters did a decent job explaining it.

I know how I will have to configure my plane based on my equipment.

 

[ARFlyer]

Flying in was a kick. They had a holding pattern from 3000 to 8000 full of Cessnas and what have you. A 30 min flight took almost an hour with all the holding and heading changes.

It was nice to put a face to a username Unit!

 

[ssonixx]

I could have done without the Avidyne guy selling his stuff and not even talking about ADSB, but the other two presenters did a decent job explaining it.

They probably didn't talk about it because they don't have an ADS-B solution to talk about. Only XM and TCAS solutions.

 

[madtrader]

I wish I could have made it. We were IMC most of the day.

 

[Unit74]

I wish I could have made it. We were IMC most of the day.

Yea... I drove in. Although I could have scud run it, I just didn't think that was wise. I need to get my IPC done and have not flown IFR for over 13 years so lots of work ahead of me.

 

[Unit74]

They probably didn't talk about it because they don't have an ADS-B solution to talk about. Only XM and TCAS solutions.

Avidyne is working on an adsb/TCAS hybrid system, if it's not already out. It was the Aspen guy, not Avidyne I was thinking of. All he did was sell his gadgets. A few people got up and walked out on him. I was about to and then he shut it down.

But if you already have one of the Aspen mini glass displays, it was a great review on the features.
But I don't have $10k this decade for it so I was disinterested.

 

[madtrader]

Yea... I drove in. Although I could have scud run it, I just didn't think that was wise. I need to get my IPC done and have not flown IFR for over 13 years so lots of work ahead of me.

VFR only for me. And with 400 foot ceiling here it wasn't even close for my kind of scud running. That's also a bit out of my driving range for an 8am start.

 

[ssonixx]

Avidyne is working on an adsb/TCAS hybrid system, if it's not already out. It was the Aspen guy, not Avidyne I was thinking of. All he did was sell his gadgets. A few people got up and walked out on him. I was about to and then he shut it down.

But if you already have one of the Aspen mini glass displays, it was a great review on the features.
But I don't have $10k this decade for it so I was disinterested.

Combining both TCAS and ADSB traffic would be nice. I think the weather adaptations for ADSB will be a bit more challenging for them as they are plumbed for XM. And my guess is they will target their R9 systems first rather than worry about their EX5000 panels. I don't have $70k this century for an R9 panel.