ADHD Disqualifying

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Tex_Mike

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Tex_MIKE
I was reading another thread where it was mentioned that certain medical conditions would cause one to fail a 3rd class medical. ADHD was mentioned. Is this really a disqualifying medical condition?

No issues here but man, every other kid these days is taking medication for ADHD. The professional pilot shortage is only going to get worse!!!
 
Kids that get doped up may not have ADD but...once they take the meds they later have to prove to FAA they never had ADD. And that costs $$$, but can be done.
 
The short answer is that a past diagnosis of ADHD is disqualifying, but can be waived after an evaluation by a neuropsychologist determines you still meet FAA standards -- a very expensive process not covered by insurance. For details, contact Bruce Chien either over on the AOPA Forums or via his own web site.
 
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Matthew said:
Kids that get doped up may not have ADD but...once they take the meds they later have to prove to FAA they never had ADD. And that costs $$$, but can be done.
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Yeah, I've had this come up with kids. The first time it came up I had an amazing student. Started flying with her at the age of 15. You showed her something once, she got it. Since we had time before we could legally solo her and she finished her solo requirements we did other things. Aerobatics- same thing. Show her a loop and she did a loop. Show her a hammer head, she did a hammer head. Amazing. Took her up in a 310- same thing. Showed her something once and she got it.
Time to solo gets close and I send her off to get a medical. She comes back with her parents devastated. Several years prior she had been diagnosed with ADD and was prescribed ritalin. She stopped taking it before we started flying, but it did not matter.
She eventually was able to get a medical and finish her training (she is now a CFI), but it was a long, expensive process. Personally I think the ADD thing was BS in her case.
 
Tex_Mike said:
I was reading another thread where it was mentioned that certain medical conditions would cause one to fail a 3rd class medical. ADHD was mentioned. Is this really a disqualifying medical condition?

No issues here but man, every other kid these days is taking medication for ADHD. The professional pilot shortage is only going to get worse!!!
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None of the previous posts have specifically stated it, but ADD and other such issues seems to be WAY over diagnosed in the last couple of decades. And with the diagnosis, comes the drugs that parents seem to think do wonders for their kids.

Really, whatever did we do with misbehaving kids before all these disqualifying wonder drugs came out?
 
there never has been and never will be a pilot shortage (with the possible exception of the luftwaffe in the latter days of nazi germany)
 
JHW said:
there never has been and never will be a pilot shortage (with the possible exception of the luftwaffe in the latter days of nazi germany)
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???? And this has... what to do with ADD??
Even that statement is stupid. We had a pilot shortage in the Army. Flying 90+ hours/month of combat, 14 days in a row without a break in 120+ degree heat, no A/C wearing chicken plate sucks.
 
Anymouse said:
Really, whatever did we do with misbehaving kids before all these disqualifying wonder drugs came out?
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They (we) actually had recess time and PE at school everyday, and did free play after school instead of being shuttled around to a half dozen parent-scheduled activities.
 
From what I understand a diagnosis is one thing...taking the meds is another. I'm positive given today's 'standard' of ADHD, I had it as a kid...but never was diagnosed or took anything so it was a non-issue for me. One of my son's was diagnosed with it (they probably all 'have it') but we're not medicating him.
 
I'm a teacher and work with kids with ADD each and every day. This infuriates me that ADD is considered a DQ by the FAA. It is absolutely not something that should prevent anyone from doing anything they want to. Given how over used the label is and how often it is thrown around it is compeltley not an issue to most if not all kids once they learn to manage their issue.

Honestly the whole medical process the FAA uses is borderline abusive and certainly seems to infringe on the rights of pilots and citizens alike. I would gladly fly with anyone who has ADD and would have not even a second thought if the Captain of my commercial flight came on and said, " this is your Captain Speeking. I have ADD and wanted you to know that we are about to begin our push back from the gate."

It's just absurd.
 
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JHW said:
there never has been and never will be a pilot shortage (with the possible exception of the luftwaffe in the latter days of nazi germany)
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Blackhawk said:
???? And this has... what to do with ADD??
Even that statement is stupid. We had a pilot shortage in the Army. Flying 90+ hours/month of combat, 14 days in a row without a break in 120+ degree heat, no A/C wearing chicken plate sucks.
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I suspect that he may have ADD himself. :rolleyes2:
 
Raise your hand here if you have or probably would have been diagnosed with ADHD as a kid?:yes:

I would have and or would currently if I went to the right doctor and advocated for a change.

This it especially aggeravating for me since I have a kid with the same symptoms as I struggled with in my childhood, but he was diagnosed and was prescribed medication for it, and now he is in college, off the medication and would like to get his PPL. I did not even think about this being an issue.:confused:
 
The best pilots are a ways down the ADD scale. OCD pilots just think they are safe(everyone else is scared of them or for them.)
 
Anymouse said:
None of the previous posts have specifically stated it, but ADD and other such issues seems to be WAY over diagnosed in the last couple of decades. And with the diagnosis, comes the drugs that parents seem to think do wonders for their kids.
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I think it's more of a horse/cart thing. Parent, or schools, see a kid they think would be calmed down with Ritalin or whatever. The only way to get that prescribed is with an ADD diagnosis. So the pressure is on to get the diagnosis for the purpose of getting the meds instead of finding out what the problem really is. Maybe it really is ADD, but there's a good chance it isn't.

Since it's considered a lifetime diagnosis once you have it you always have it, meds or not. That's why it's so expensive to fix for FAA - you have to prove the original diagnosis was wrong.
 
Anymouse said:
Really, whatever did we do with misbehaving kids before all these disqualifying wonder drugs came out?
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The parents got a note or a phone call from the school. When the kid got home, they then got their ass beat for misbehaving. Problem solved.
 
kenjr said:
From what I understand a diagnosis is one thing...taking the meds is another. I'm positive given today's 'standard' of ADHD, I had it as a kid...but never was diagnosed or took anything so it was a non-issue for me. One of my son's was diagnosed with it (they probably all 'have it') but we're not medicating him.
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Don't send him off to get a medical. Medication or not.
 
jspilot said:
I'm a teacher and work with kids with ADD each and every day. This infuriates me that ADD is considered a DQ by the FAA. It is absolutely not something that should prevent anyone from doing anything they want to. Given how over used the label is and how often it is thrown around it is compeltley not an issue to most if not all kids once they learn to manage their issue.

Honestly the whole medical process the FAA uses is borderline abusive and certainly seems to infringe on the rights of pilots and citizens alike. I would gladly fly with anyone who has ADD and would have not even a second thought if the Captain of my commercial flight came on and said, " this is your Captain Speeking. I have ADD and wanted you to know that we are about to begin our push back from the gate."

It's just absurd.
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As a teacher you must realize the HUGE financial windfall the district gets for all the kids diagnosed with ADHD.... Big Pharma laughs all the way to the bank too....

Biggest scam before Obamacare..:mad2::mad2::mad2::redface:
 
jspilot said:
I'm a teacher and work with kids with ADD each and every day. This infuriates me that ADD is considered a DQ by the FAA. It is absolutely not something that should prevent anyone from doing anything they want to. Given how over used the label is and how often it is thrown around it is compeltley not an issue to most if not all kids once they learn to manage their issue.

Honestly the whole medical process the FAA uses is borderline abusive and certainly seems to infringe on the rights of pilots and citizens alike. I would gladly fly with anyone who has ADD and would have not even a second thought if the Captain of my commercial flight came on and said, " this is your Captain Speeking. I have ADD and wanted you to know that we are about to begin our push back from the gate."

It's just absurd.
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The system the schools use of bullying parents into drug seeking for their children is the abuse here. There's extra money to be found with a medicated head count.
 
A couple of posters on this thread mentioned that schools get additional funding for gets with ADHD. Not that I d didn't believe you but I had to look it up for myself.
You guys are right. I found an article from 2 years ago that referenced a school in California who gets $1000 per child with ADHD. I also found something else interesting. To get the money the child has to be two grades behind other kids their same age.
So here is the kicker. If a non ADHD student fails a grade then their portion of school funding is cut. It's meant to be an incentive to educate the kids to a level that they will pass. Well if the failing kids get an ADHD diagnosis then not only does the school keep the current level of funding for that child, they also get an additional thousand bucks.

So in theory a school can do a crappy job of educating kids, turn around and have them diagnosed with ADHD, and ultimately get more funding that high performing schools. Only in modern day America can something like this happen.
 
Docmirror needs to repost his story about his reaction when his daughter's school tried to tag her with ADHD
 
kenjr said:
From what I understand a diagnosis is one thing...taking the meds is another. I'm positive given today's 'standard' of ADHD, I had it as a kid...but never was diagnosed or took anything so it was a non-issue for me. One of my son's was diagnosed with it (they probably all 'have it') but we're not medicating him.
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From the FAA's perspective, a history including either diagnosis of ADHD or prescription of ADHD meds is sufficient to trigger denial and the need for that very expensive neuropsych eval even if there is no explicit ADHD diagnosis. Their assumption is that if you are or were taking meds used to treat a disqualifying condition, you must have that disqualifying condition even if that condition isn't explicitly diagnosed. That puts the monkey on your back to prove you don't have that condition (and this applies to virtually all disqualifying conditions, not just ADHD).
 
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Tex_Mike said:
A couple of posters on this thread mentioned that schools get additional funding for gets with ADHD. Not that I d didn't believe you but I had to look it up for myself.
You guys are right. I found an article from 2 years ago that referenced a school in California who gets $1000 per child with ADHD. I also found something else interesting. To get the money the child has to be two grades behind other kids their same age.
So here is the kicker. If a non ADHD student fails a grade then their portion of school funding is cut. It's meant to be an incentive to educate the kids to a level that they will pass. Well if the failing kids get an ADHD diagnosis then not only does the school keep the current level of funding for that child, they also get an additional thousand bucks.

So in theory a school can do a crappy job of educating kids, turn around and have them diagnosed with ADHD, and ultimately get more funding that high performing schools. Only in modern day America can something like this happen.
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Also worth adding that the public schools are required to provide Special Education programs among other things specifically for ADHD and those programs have an added cost that would not otherwise be covered. So while I am sure that some try to game the system, it isn't like they are rolling in the dough because they are getting subsidized.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Don't send him off to get a medical. Medication or not.
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He's 6 years old. By the time he wants to fly - if he even ever wants to do that - this shouldn't be an issue for him since he won't have to fess up to taking any meds and the truth is, he's just a normal kid. He has another condition (bone condition) and they ran a battery of tests and that was one of them. I take it with a grain of salt...he's a pretty calm, collected kid and if he has it then every 6 year old I've ever met has it.
 
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kenjr said:
He's 6 years old. By the time he wants to fly - if he even ever wants to do that - this shouldn't be an issue for him since he won't have to fess up to taking any meds and the truth is, he's just a normal kid. He has another condition (bone condition) and they ran a battery of tests and that was one of them. I take it with a grain of salt...he's a pretty calm, collected kid and if he has it then every 6 year old I've ever met has it.
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As I said above, any diagnosis of ADHD ever will have to be reported as a "yes" for question 18m on the FAA Form 8500-8 and explained, which will result in the ADHD protocol being required even if he never took any ADHD meds. See http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...ces/aam/ame/guide/dec_cons/disease_prot/adhd/ for what that entails.

The alternative is for you to get the doctor who made that diagnosis to withdraw it in writing in his record and state for the record that he does not have ADHD and never did. Otherwise, as far as the FAA is concerned, he's stuck with that tag for life.
 
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kenjr said:
From what I understand a diagnosis is one thing...taking the meds is another. I'm positive given today's 'standard' of ADHD, I had it as a kid...but never was diagnosed or took anything so it was a non-issue for me. One of my son's was diagnosed with it (they probably all 'have it') but we're not medicating him.
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Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Don't send him off to get a medical. Medication or not.
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kenjr said:
He's 6 years old. By the time he wants to fly - if he even ever wants to do that - this shouldn't be an issue for him since he won't have to fess up to taking any meds and the truth is, he's just a normal kid. He has another condition (bone condition) and they ran a battery of tests and that was one of them. I take it with a grain of salt...he's a pretty calm, collected kid and if he has it then every 6 year old I've ever met has it.
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In your earlier post you mentioned the diagnosis of ADD.

The next suggestion was NOT to seek a medical.

Your last post says he won't have to fess up to the meds, and that's true. But he still has the diagnosis he'll have to report on his medical, and THAT'S the problem.

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...m/ame/guide/app_process/app_history/item18/m/

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...ces/aam/ame/guide/dec_cons/disease_prot/adhd/

My understanding: The trouble with a med prescription is that it implies a diagnosis of ADD, and that's why it's a problem. But a diagnosis of ADD without meds is still ADD.

And no, I am NOT an AME. Please check with Dr Chein on this, he's helped a lot of people through the system.


Edit: I see Ron types faster than I do.
 
Just thinking about this,
If the 3rd class medical exemption gets approved (one of these days, right?) then I guess the discussion of ADHD would be a moot point for those looking for PPL/ VFR/ <180hp flying.
 
MyassisDragon said:
Just thinking about this,
If the 3rd class medical exemption gets approved (one of these days, right?) then I guess the discussion of ADHD would be a moot point for those looking for PPL/ VFR/ <180hp flying.
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Pretty much (if you don't mind the limitations). You still have to be safe, but...
 
MyassisDragon said:
Just thinking about this,
If the 3rd class medical exemption gets approved (one of these days, right?) then I guess the discussion of ADHD would be a moot point for those looking for PPL/ VFR/ <180hp flying.
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Maybe not. There's nothing in the proposed legislation preventing the FAA from requiring consultation with a physician as part of your self-certification process under the future version of 61.23 written to comply with that law (if passed as written). All the law prohibits is requiring "medical certification or proof of health requirement", i.e., a signed piece of paper, and I can definitely see the FAA writing some sort of consultation requirement into the regulations written to comply with that proposed law, or at least making it a de facto requirement by interpretation or case law. And I think for liability reasons, physicians may be leery of saying it's OK to fly with something the FAA says it's not.
 
AggieMike88 said:
Docmirror needs to repost his story about his reaction when his daughter's school tried to tag her with ADHD
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They can search for it.

OBTW, She's graduating with degrees in ChemEng, minor in physics, and marketing at 21. Has a job offer with a major chem company for big bucks, and is getting her pilot's license this summer.

On another note, I miss Dr Bruce. If you are reading any of this, please consider coming back for the betterment of the POA and airmen in general.
 
docmirror said:
On another note, I miss Dr Bruce. If you are reading any of this, please consider coming back for the betterment of the POA and airmen in general.
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You need to be addressing your request to the PoA MC regarding those who annoyed him with their pestering, quibbling, and argumentative posts to the point he decided not to put up with it any more and left again. The refusal of PoA's Management to control that sort of behavior is why he left the first time, and then again this time. Absent a fundamental change in how PoA MC moderates this site, he's not coming back.
 
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Ron Levy said:
You need to be addressing your request to the PoA MC
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No - I don't. I'm asking Bruce directly. I can't go over to the red board, cause I'm not a member. I don't care who else is involved, or how it happens. It's all sausage making and no one wants to see that.

Just get it done. POA is less, and airmen are not being served by his absence. He's helped me, and many others, and this is a good meeting spot for the kind of solutions he has.
 
docmirror said:
No - I don't. I'm asking Bruce directly.
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If you want to ask him directly, feel free, but posting here won't accomplish that goal.

I can't go over to the red board, cause I'm not a member. I don't care who else is involved, or how it happens. It's all sausage making and no one wants to see that.

Just get it done. POA is less, and airmen are not being served by his absence. He's helped me, and many others, and this is a good meeting spot for the kind of solutions he has.
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I've communicated with Bruce about this, and from what he's told me, he isn't returning here without PoA's MC changing its philosophy. So, if you want this to happen, you need to be telling them, not Bruce, although that may be accomplished by posting here.

Or not. We'll see if they do anything.
 
Blackhawk said:
???? And this has... what to do with ADD??
Even that statement is stupid. We had a pilot shortage in the Army. Flying 90+ hours/month of combat, 14 days in a row without a break in 120+ degree heat, no A/C wearing chicken plate sucks.
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The OP's contention was that ADD being disqualifying will contribute to an alleged "pilot shortage". Try to keep up. Perhaps you were off your meds when writing that, if so I apologize.
 
JB1842 said:
The parents got a note or a phone call from the school. When the kid got home, they then got their ass beat for misbehaving. Problem solved.
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Exactly!

Back then, teacher's weren't afraid to paddle you, rap you on the knuckles with a ruler, or send you to the principal's office for misbehaving, or not paying attention in class.

And that didn't result in a trip to a doctor or being drugged up with ritalin, it resulted in a swat on the behind from both parents, and maybe being grounded for a week.

I don't have kids, so cannot speak firsthand to having any, but in talks with people I know, plus reading things like this, it sure seems like there's a drug for everything nowadays. Kid's depressed...pop a pill. Kid can't focus...pop a pill. Kid acts up...pop a pill.

Doesn't seem like a solution to me.
 
LoneAspen said:
Exactly!

Back then, teacher's weren't afraid to paddle you, rap you on the knuckles with a ruler, or send you to the principal's office for misbehaving, or not paying attention in class.

And that didn't result in a trip to a doctor or being drugged up with ritalin, it resulted in a swat on the behind from both parents, and maybe being grounded for a week.

I don't have kids, so cannot speak firsthand to having any, but in talks with people I know, plus reading things like this, it sure seems like there's a drug for everything nowadays. Kid's depressed...pop a pill. Kid can't focus...pop a pill. Kid acts up...pop a pill.

Doesn't seem like a solution to me.
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I do have kids, and I have sat on the school board and witnessed many of these debates, and I would say you are spot on.
 
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