Additional Rating?

T Bone

T Bone

Pre-takeoff checklist
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T Bone
While the ink is drying on my new "temporary" PP/ASEL, I got to thinking.... (uh oh....). Out there for a bit later (soon, but....) I want to get a tailwheel ewndorsement, a high performance endorsement, and at some point a complex endorsement. But those are all endorsements to an existing certificate. What about additional ratings? Instrument, sure, but.... ASES? How does the sea plane rating work? I've seen places advertise, you go there, stay a few days (I think) and purportedly come away with a sea plane rating.

This is an additional rating, not just an endorsement, right? Obviously, you can't go just anywhere and rent a flying boat or float plane, but these places provide the planes and training. Is there a checkride with a Designated Examiner? If they simply sign you off, that would seem to be more of an endorsement, as opposed to a seperate class. This isn't something I'll be doing right away, but I'm curious. And it seems the folks here are really well versed on all aspects of flight training I've seen discussed, so.... hit me with it! Thanks :cool:
 
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yes ases is a rating,hence a "checkride" is necessary. These places that advertise usually 2-3 days with an examiner on site. Good luck.... I have heard from all that have the rating the training is a blast!
 
T Bone-

Congrats on your new certificate!!! :cheerio:

I'd really like to get an SES rating... does sound like a ton of fun. I think in order to make things easier, you need to do some ground studying before showing up for those "quickie" SES ratings.

Another "relatively painless" rating after ASEL is the glider rating. I'm sure it is more demanding and requires more time and work to get than the SES, but would probably be quite rewarding to earn. You'd become master of the dead-stick landing!

Jeff
 
They do one in Traverse City or Cadillac for like $600 bucks. One day deal, 6 hours of instruction. Includes the check ride too I think.
 
Thanks guys. Yeah, thought about the glider rating too... that'll probably have to wait a season or so though. I plan to do instrument, I figure a bit over a year after I start. And like I did for the Private (and will for the sea plane), I'll do alot of the legwork/bookwork before I get going (took the Private Written before I started flight training for example). I'm thinking shorter, distraction type "diversions", such as tailwheel and sea plane, while I work my way up to more advanced aircraft. Lots of fun to be had this year!
 
My AME told me a baloon add on to the PP/ASEL is only 10 hours + a check ride, but I don't know the specifics other than what he said.
 
T Bone,

If you have unlimited budget I'd say go for all the endorsements and such...if you have a limited budget I would say work on building time requirements for instrument rating. The instrument rating will make you feel more comfortable in the system. It will also allow you to get more utility out of an aircraft as you'll be able to confidently fly when the weather gets marginal or worse.

After the instrument rating lots of people go to work on the comercial rating. Getting the training for the instrument rating will go hand in hand with getting the high performance and complex endorsements you mentioned. Once you get SEL commercial you can go after the SES commercial rating as the test at the commercial level is only a little harder than the practical test for the private level.

Len
 
If you want to make a real adventure out of it and have some vacation saved up check this out: http://www.alaskafloats.com/ Someday I'd like to go here to add a ASES to my card....its a pipe dream....
 
Keep in mind that the addition of another CLASS rating like SES or MEL to an existing category rating like Airplane has no minimum hours and no knowledge test -- just whatever it takes to convince an instructor to sign you off for the practical test, and then doing that successfully. Adding another CATEGORY rating like Rotorcraft or Lighter-Than-Air also requires that you meet the aeronautical experience requirements for the original issue of that certificate, and in some cases (e.g., Glider to Airplane) also taking the knowledge test. This can mean 30 or so hours of training and solo flying or more depending on what you have and what you want. See 61.63 and the appropriate aero experience sections of Pvt, Comm, and ATP for the details.
 
Eric Davis said:
If you want to make a real adventure out of it and have some vacation saved up check this out: http://www.alaskafloats.com/ Someday I'd like to go here to add a ASES to my card....its a pipe dream....
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Ooo.... that does look like a fun place to get an SES! :cool: I've been talking to my wife about a trip to Alaska... yeah, probably a pipe dream for me too.

Jeff
 
Ron Levy said:
This can mean 30 or so hours of training and solo flying or more depending on what you have and what you want. See 61.63 and the appropriate aero experience sections of Pvt, Comm, and ATP for the details.
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While contemplating the times required to add another category/class to an existing certificate please be aware that this is yet another example in which John Lynch and the Part 61 FAQ file are absolutely wrong. Per regional counsel letter, coordinated with Flight Standards Division, the minimum flight time (dual & solo) to add HEL to ASEL at the private level is 19 hours. The minimum flight time to add ASEL to HEL at the private level is 22 hours. John Lynch believes and has published in a referenced appendum to the FAQ file that both numbers are 30 hours. This might explain why many CFIs, flight schools, and several FSDOs are equally misinformed. The difference in interpretation revolves around knowing the difference between "aircraft" and any category/class specific aeronautical experience requirement with Part 61.
 
T-Bone, I constantly wrestle with this myself. Up until now my rule of thumb has been to think about whether I would actually use the rating enough to stay proficient, otherwise it is just an ego thing. Hence I'm not pursuing either the multi nor the sea plane (although I really would like the sea plane!). It's the same reason I've decided not to pursue the CFI at the moment. My job is one where my wife see's little of me during the week and she would not be appreciative if I commited to teaching students on weekends. If I still have my medical I hope to pursue the CFI route when I retire (6 yrs and counting!).
 
Thanks for all the useful info guys! I'd be doing this mostly as a "fun" thing, and not something I'd really expect to use. It would be cool to have that ASES appended to my certificate too (that is, if it ever gets here.... about another month from what I see on the site).

Alaska is for now, a dream.... Florida is certainly doable, and then there's the fact that I live in Michigan, surrounded on 3 sides by the Great Lakes.... Probabably do it here, and probably either this Fall or Next Spring.... I'll be sure to take a camera, and post lot's of pics!
 
T Bone said:
Thanks for all the useful info guys! I'd be doing this mostly as a "fun" thing, and not something I'd really expect to use.
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Do not discount the value in taking checkrides. You may never use an ASES rating but the self-discipline instilled in training for the checkride requirements and tolerances will sharpen your ASEL flying, and the effect will linger long after the checkride.
 
T Bone said:
Thanks guys. Yeah, thought about the glider rating too... that'll probably have to wait a season or so though. I plan to do instrument, I figure a bit over a year after I start. And like I did for the Private (and will for the sea plane), I'll do alot of the legwork/bookwork before I get going (took the Private Written before I started flight training for example). I'm thinking shorter, distraction type "diversions", such as tailwheel and sea plane, while I work my way up to more advanced aircraft. Lots of fun to be had this year!
Click to expand...

The glider rating will do more for your flying ability than most other add ons or ratings except maybe the instrument rating.

If you are the kind of pilot that has trouble "feeling" the aircraft it will help tremendously. Engine outs won't be as disconcerting since now you are just flying a really bad glider.

The one thing you will wish for when you get back into a power plane is spoliers and dive brakes. Makes landing sooooo easy.
 
I've been thinking of getting myself one of those SES. There is a place in the Sierra foothills a couple of hours from here. Buddy of mine went there and he says it's a blast. I mean, for three days he just wouldn't shut up about it.

Tell you what, anyone here interested in getting the SES let me know. Maybe we can get a group deal. At least, it would be fun to rate each other's landings. With the SES on your card y'all can move on to other pipe dreams.
 
Ed Guthrie said:
Do not discount the value in taking checkrides. You may never use an ASES rating but the self-discipline instilled in training for the checkride requirements and tolerances will sharpen your ASEL flying, and the effect will linger long after the checkride.
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I agree. I would add that there are some skills I learned (relearned?) getting the ASES such as greater awareness of the outside landscape with regards to the landing surface, a skill necessary in glassy-water landing. I also learned that I could put a regular plane down on water safely if I ever had to.

Getting the ASES was one of the most fun flying weekends I have ever had.

I've done some glider flying although I have not finished that rating. It definitely hones your flying skills.
 
Carol said:
I also learned that I could put a regular plane down on water safely if I ever had to.
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Did you have to demonstrate that on the checkride?:D

Getting the ASES was one of the most fun flying weekends I have ever had.[/qoute]

I definitely want to do this, just for the sheer fun of it. Given that I've been around boats longer than I've been flying (my first actual flying experience was flying in a kite towed behind a boat), I don't know why I haven't done this already. This summer for sure!

[qoute] I've done some glider flying although I have not finished that rating. It definitely hones your flying skills.
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There've been many times that I've been able to put my glider skills (what's left of them) to use while flying powered airplanes. Things like eeking the last bit of climb out of an underpowered plane by catching lift, increasing my groundspeed in the mountains by riding the ridge lift and avoiding the worst of the thermal induced turbulence, etc. The glider rating is a good educational experience for any pilot.
 
Flyboy said:
The one thing you will wish for when you get back into a power plane is spoliers and dive brakes. Makes landing sooooo easy.
Click to expand...

I sure agree with that. It would be hard to imagine overshooting or otherwise messing up a landing if you had sailplane like spoilers in any airplane. With them in a Mooney 201, I'd bet you could come in at Vs * 2.0 and touch down within a few hundred feet without any ballooning or nosewheel trauma.
 
T Bone said:
While the ink is drying on my new "temporary" PP/ASEL, I got to thinking.... (uh oh....). Out there for a bit later (soon, but....) I want to get a tailwheel ewndorsement, a high performance endorsement, and at some point a complex endorsement. But those are all endorsements to an existing certificate. What about additional ratings? Instrument, sure, but.... ASES? How does the sea plane rating work? I've seen places advertise, you go there, stay a few days (I think) and purportedly come away with a sea plane rating.

This is an additional rating, not just an endorsement, right? Obviously, you can't go just anywhere and rent a flying boat or float plane, but these places provide the planes and training. Is there a checkride with a Designated Examiner? If they simply sign you off, that would seem to be more of an endorsement, as opposed to a seperate class. This isn't something I'll be doing right away, but I'm curious. And it seems the folks here are really well versed on all aspects of flight training I've seen discussed, so.... hit me with it! Thanks :cool:
Click to expand...

Yep, there is a checkride. It's a fun rating, rarely will you climb over 500' the whole time. You get to do splash-n-gos and pretty girls lift their tops to lure you over for a ride. Most places have a DE (or 2) on staff. I did my SES with Sheblys' in Bullhead city and he also combined my SEL COM ride (Lake Bucaneer) for the same price. We also split some training in the Cub on floats as well. Nice guys, good operation IMO.
 
THIS SUMMER I'M GOING FOR IT! ASES Whoooo-hooo!
*drool*

--Kath
 
I've heard good things about this place in Canada: http://www.oceanair.ca/

Proficiency, as has already been mentioned, is the problem I see with this. There seem to be few places to rent a floatplane, but they do exist. Twitchell's requires 10 hours dual floatplane.
 
Are there problems for US pilots with endorsements, ratings, etc, regarding governing authorities with getting this training in Canada? How does that work?
 
Getting the float plane rating would be fun, for sure, and one day I will get around to it, but:

As a practical matter, the chances of you ever being able to rent a floatplane on this continent and fly it without an instructor on board are pretty close to zero.

So, get your ASES rating for fun, to have it on your license, whatever - go for it! :rollercoaster:

Just don't think that you will be able to rent a plane later. It will always be dual unless you buy your own. And you can do dual without the rating, no?

Now that I've said that some wiseacre will find an Internet link to float plane rentals :rolleyes: :D
 
alaskaflyer said:
Getting the float plane rating would be fun, for sure, and one day I will get around to it, but:

As a practical matter, the chances of you ever being able to rent a floatplane on this continent and fly it without an instructor on board are pretty close to zero.

So, get your ASES rating for fun, to have it on your license, whatever - go for it! :rollercoaster:

Just don't think that you will be able to rent a plane later. It will always be dual unless you buy your own. And you can do dual without the rating, no?

Now that I've said that some wiseacre will find an Internet link to float plane rentals :rolleyes: :D
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There's a couple places in Seattle that have been renting seaplanes to PPLs.
 
If you get it in Canada in an N-reg plane with an FAA-licensed CFI and take the test with an FAA-designated pilot examiner in Canada (yes, you can do that outside the US), it goes on your US certificate. Otherwise, you'd have to get a Canadian certificate, have the SES added to your FAA ticket at the Private level only, and that would be contingent you you keeping the Canadian certificate.
 
Wow! Seems like some of the insurance issues have been resolved since I looked into the ASES a while ago - then I couldn't find anyplace to rent solo (though I didn't look at Seattle ;) )

Heck, now I'll have to get mine!
 
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alaskaflyer said:
Wow! Seems like some of the insurance issues have been resolved since I looked into the ASES a while ago - then I couldn't find anyplace to rent solo (though I didn't look at Seattle ;) )

Heck, now I'll have to get mine!
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The Seattle solo rental places have been here for many years.
I don't think insurance has changed much in the seaplane category.
It can run about 2X or even more than that of comparable land planes.
 
I want to collect ratings too. Just find it hard to drag myself away from my own plane to do it.

What I really want to do is get a tailwheel endorsement. I was flying this weekend in an Archer and at one point it occurred to me that I hadn't really done anything with my feet in a long time. I'd like to get some experience in airplanes that actually require coordination for coordinated flight. There's a place nearby (Van Sant) that is tailwheel heaven. I believe they'll even do checkouts on a Stearman. Very cool.

Good luck.
 
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