Adderall

Discussion in 'Medical Topics' started by dell30rb, Jan 13, 2013.

  1. dell30rb

    dell30rb Final Approach

    Joined:
    May 18, 2011
    Messages:
    6,367
    Location:
    Raleigh NC

    Display name:
    Ren
    Got a friend who wants to get his PPL. He has a prescription for Adderall for the last few years.


    Found this info online. What are his chances of getting approved to fly with the prescription (he is an adult)? If that is not an option, would it be difficult for him to get a medical if he dropped the prescription.

    Thanks
     
  2. GMascelli

    GMascelli Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2005
    Messages:
    2,317
    Location:
    Ocean City, MD

    Display name:
    GaryM
  3. mrdavedpg

    mrdavedpg Pre-Flight

    Joined:
    May 5, 2010
    Messages:
    58

    Display name:
    Dave
    ADD is disqualifying. Your buddy should look into Sport Pilot unless he's already been denied for a medical.
     
  4. Henning

    Henning Ejection Handle Pulled

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2005
    Messages:
    39,482
    Location:
    Ft Lauderdale FL

    Display name:
    iHenning
    Bruce may have better info, but my guess is zero chance of getting a medical, both the med and the underlying condition are disqualifying. Could go SP, but there is a question as to whether they'll be safe.
     
  5. mrdavedpg

    mrdavedpg Pre-Flight

    Joined:
    May 5, 2010
    Messages:
    58

    Display name:
    Dave
    I believe the only way to get a medical, is to have the original diagnosis reversed which is expensive and could leave the OP's buddy $5k or more lighter in his wallet and still not able to get his medical.

    Dr. Bruce can clarify.
     
  6. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2007
    Messages:
    10,773

    Display name:
    FlyingRon
    I don't think this one is going to be quick. Talked to Bruce about this for a neighbor kid with similar situation. It's going to take not just a doc saying "Oh, I guess the kid doesn't have ADHD" but an extended time OFF the drugs with a demonstration of unimpaired functioning.
     
  7. Matthew

    Matthew Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2005
    Messages:
    10,978
    Location:
    kojc, kixd, k34

    Display name:
    Matthew
    Yeah - I was involved with helping a kid beat this (with Doc Bruce's help). My understsnding : Adderol is for ADD, and ADD is a lifetime illness. The only way around it is to prove you didn't have it in the first place, and that means $ for a full-blown psych eval to overturn the original diagnosis. Of course, some people really DO have ADD...
     
  8. dell30rb

    dell30rb Final Approach

    Joined:
    May 18, 2011
    Messages:
    6,367
    Location:
    Raleigh NC

    Display name:
    Ren
    Thanks for all the replies.

    Basically he has the classic scenario of being diagnosed as a teenager with ADD. A few years later he seems to have outgrown it.

    From what I have been able to research, it looks like a minimum of 90 days with no prescription and then a psych eval costing $750-$2500. I'm glad I was able to bring this up with him before getting denied a medical as SP might be a good option.
     
  9. Matthew

    Matthew Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2005
    Messages:
    10,978
    Location:
    kojc, kixd, k34

    Display name:
    Matthew
    That's the deal - if it really is ADD I don't think you outgrow it. Maybe you can learn to cope, but it might be that he didn't have it to begin with. The good Dr is best for this.
     
  10. dell30rb

    dell30rb Final Approach

    Joined:
    May 18, 2011
    Messages:
    6,367
    Location:
    Raleigh NC

    Display name:
    Ren
    Hard to say if he was mis-diagnosed or what.

    I told him from what I was seeing he would need to be off the prescription for a minimum of 90 days and then take a comprehensive evaluation to remove the diagnosis.

    Currently talking up the sport-pilot option. There is a pretty decent LSA flight school on our field that rents allegros for $80/hr.

    If he decides he wants to go for the private instead, i'll put him in touch with Doc Bruce.
     
  11. ClimbnSink

    ClimbnSink Ejection Handle Pulled

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2007
    Messages:
    6,997

    Display name:
    Greg
    All histories great pilots are non diagnosed ADD cases.:lol:
     
  12. Art VanDelay

    Art VanDelay Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,580
    Location:
    Del Boca Vista

    Display name:
    Art VanDelay
    Adderall ? Love the stuff ! It's great for when you need to get a bunch of stuff done.
     
  13. bbchien

    bbchien Final Approach

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2005
    Messages:
    9,653
    Location:
    Central Illinois

    Display name:
    Bruce C
    Got an email about this about a week back....was that you?

    I have no idea where this came from. From time to time in aviation you hear things that started with "It can't be so it cant be so it can't be so" which becomes "the exception must be so, the exception must be so the exception must be so".

    Adderal and all the stimulants are grounding. They have such a profound effect on cognitive performance and the FAA can't control whether you are on it or off it, for a part-time Rx....as in the moment yo have the accident.

    I would be very surpised if there is any truth to this. I can't think of a single condition where part-time use would be appropriate. I can see how a PMS or VFS interested company might want to troll for business.....and I've been to many FAA psychiatry meetings....
     
  14. Henning

    Henning Ejection Handle Pulled

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2005
    Messages:
    39,482
    Location:
    Ft Lauderdale FL

    Display name:
    iHenning
    No, there's a difference between ADD/ADHD and just plain nuts....:rofl::D;)
     
  15. CaptLabrador

    CaptLabrador Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2012
    Messages:
    291
    Location:
    San Francisco

    Display name:
    Adam
    The way I see it, all the multitasking going on in the cockpit is great for ADD. Free the beast!
     
  16. Fearless Tower

    Fearless Tower Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2010
    Messages:
    11,507
    Location:
    Norfolk, VA

    Display name:
    Fearless Tower
    Except in all that multi tasking they miss and forget a lot of things jumping around from task to task.
     
  17. weilke

    weilke Final Approach

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    8,838

    Display name:
    weilke
    Full blown ADHDers suck at multitasking. They also suck at single-tasking.
     
  18. dell30rb

    dell30rb Final Approach

    Joined:
    May 18, 2011
    Messages:
    6,367
    Location:
    Raleigh NC

    Display name:
    Ren
    Negative on the e-mail.

    Truth to what? An approval for part-time use?

    Thanks for the response. With the exception of that quote in my original post (found it in multiple places with a google search) nothing I found on the internet suggested Adderall would be approved under any circumstances.

    I did learn that Adderall is 75% dextroamphetamine which is the 'go pill' drug given to military pilots for long missions.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2013
  19. bbchien

    bbchien Final Approach

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2005
    Messages:
    9,653
    Location:
    Central Illinois

    Display name:
    Bruce C
    Renjamin, there are a lot of things the mil can do with a Flight Surgeon on the ramp, and sometimes on board. I did 36 hour patrols.

    I can find NOTHING suggeting that Adderall would be approved under any circumstances, and the agency confirmed that verbally today.

    "I wish it true I wish it true I wish it true" is how many of these things get started.
     
  20. dell30rb

    dell30rb Final Approach

    Joined:
    May 18, 2011
    Messages:
    6,367
    Location:
    Raleigh NC

    Display name:
    Ren
    I've already told my pal he has zero chance of getting certified w a prescription and that the only path I could find for getting a medical is to get off of the drug for a period of time and then take a psych eval.

    Just to clarify.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2013
  21. Darsh

    Darsh Pre-Flight

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2011
    Messages:
    58
    Location:
    Palatine, IL

    Display name:
    Darsh
    I was prescribed Adderall all throughout middle school and up until Sophmore year of high school when I stopped taking it. In order to get my medical when I was a Freshman in college, I had to do 17 psychological tests with a board approved psychiatrist and I had to bear the cost. It sucks, but it's worth it.
     
  22. dell30rb

    dell30rb Final Approach

    Joined:
    May 18, 2011
    Messages:
    6,367
    Location:
    Raleigh NC

    Display name:
    Ren
    Thanks! Just curious, how bad did that hurt your wallet. And were the tests to reverse the diagnosis of ADD?
     
  23. bbchien

    bbchien Final Approach

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2005
    Messages:
    9,653
    Location:
    Central Illinois

    Display name:
    Bruce C
    That's usually about $2,000. I have a guy who got certified by selling his car to pay the neuro-psychologist.
     
  24. Henning

    Henning Ejection Handle Pulled

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2005
    Messages:
    39,482
    Location:
    Ft Lauderdale FL

    Display name:
    iHenning
    There is another potential avenue if one has a diagnosis, and that is a state shrink, they are free if you can get to one without being a full blown schizophrenic anymore.

    I guess I lucked out that my dad was the state's head shrink and decided to just let me roll. It was funny when the school counselor suggested that I be medicated and he counter suggested hiring teachers that could answer a question with something beyond that which was listed in the teachers edition of the textbooks that were inaccurate to begin with and perhaps that could develop curriculums that weren't totally boring.:rofl: I think the counselor figured out where I got my attitude from at that point and gave up:dunno::lol:
     
  25. Jeff Oslick

    Jeff Oslick En-Route

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2005
    Messages:
    3,368
    Location:
    Fullerton, CA

    Display name:
    Jeff Oslick
    Another way to pay for it is:
    1) pass the psych evals
    2) sue the incompetents who did an improper diagnosis in the first place

    Not a big fan of lawsuits, but this over-drugging of our kids has got to stop, and the legal system is probably the only way it will stop.
     
  26. bbchien

    bbchien Final Approach

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2005
    Messages:
    9,653
    Location:
    Central Illinois

    Display name:
    Bruce C
    No it won't.

    I just deposed for 90 minutes with two of the most average members of the legal community I have ever encountered. As in, "educate me at the other guy's expense, I don't do any research before I get here". They might be good attornies, but getting knowledgeable it would seem, should get on the list.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2013
  27. woodstock

    woodstock Final Approach

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    9,353
    Location:
    Out of a suitcase

    Display name:
    iTravel
    While we are on this topic - my brother's kids were prescribed Metadate and have both been on it for a while, although he may have taken his son off it as he thinks it was making him depressed.

    I disagree heartily with drugging kids, but I don't know all the details and I'm not an expert so I can't butt in to my brother business.

    His daughter especially is a handful and a half. No idea if she truly has ADD, but oh boy, one of the most spastic energetic kids I've ever met. Constant interrupter, has to have the spotlight 100% of the time, overshadows her older brother, etc. I know, sounds like a normal kid, right?

    Is this a drug that will bar either of them from flying one day?
     
  28. weilke

    weilke Final Approach

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    8,838

    Display name:
    weilke
    I think it's called being a princess.
     
  29. woodstock

    woodstock Final Approach

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    9,353
    Location:
    Out of a suitcase

    Display name:
    iTravel
    Well, no argument there. LOL
     
  30. Sac Arrow

    Sac Arrow Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    May 11, 2010
    Messages:
    11,642
    Location:
    Oakland, CA

    Display name:
    Mo' mail than the rest of the pushers
    I'm going to hazard a guess that the diagnosis may be more important than the drug itself.
     
  31. bbchien

    bbchien Final Approach

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2005
    Messages:
    9,653
    Location:
    Central Illinois

    Display name:
    Bruce C
    What will bar them is your Brother's posssibly inadequate workup of what the kids actually have. If he is educated and of any means at all he should have had a clinical psychologist see them and do the workup. Maybe he has.

    But if the opinion was had, is qualified (Ph.D. psych with neuro fellowship) and is affirms ADD/ADHD, those kids do not belong on a flight deck.
     
  32. Henning

    Henning Ejection Handle Pulled

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2005
    Messages:
    39,482
    Location:
    Ft Lauderdale FL

    Display name:
    iHenning
    Spanking your kid became illegal because there's no profit to be made. Just fine to dope them to the gills though, plenty of money there.
     
  33. Unregistered

    Unregistered Guest

    I'm curious how this all works. I'm going for my medical soon. I don't even have a primary care doc. Are they going to want old medical recs? Do they drug test at the medical? Or is this all the honor system?
     
  34. Henning

    Henning Ejection Handle Pulled

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2005
    Messages:
    39,482
    Location:
    Ft Lauderdale FL

    Display name:
    iHenning
    Honor system, however if you aren't honest and get into an accident or somehow otherwise draw attention to yourself, they scrutinize all your records and then you're ****ed.
     
  35. poadeleted20

    poadeleted20 Deleted

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2005
    Messages:
    31,266
    And the only thing they test for chemically when you go in for the FAA medical exam is sugar in your urine. But you really don't want to lie to the FAA -- eventually, they do seem to find out, and then they administer the aviation equivalent of capital punishment.
     
  36. Skip Miller

    Skip Miller En-Route

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2005
    Messages:
    3,941
    Location:
    New York City

    Display name:
    Skip Miller
    Henning! With a sentence like this maybe the counselor was right!!! :rofl:

    To be clear, this is said in jest....

    -Skip
     
  37. Unregistered

    Unregistered Guest

    I'm a doctor still in residency training. The bulk of kids we see are Medicaid patients with low socioeconomic class parents. We see tons of kids in our clinic that get diagnosed with ADHD and placed on some form of stimulant/non-stimulant for treatment. Most of us are well aware that the kids probably don't have ADHD, but instead have terrible/worthless/clueless parents. As much as we would love to counsel the parent on behavior and study skills and everything else, 99% of the time it doesn't help. A lot of us feel that placing the kids on these medications give them *some* hope of at least not getting kicked out of school or making all C's instead of D's. Never realized could be potentially making it difficult for them to be a pilot in the future, though!
     
  38. poadeleted20

    poadeleted20 Deleted

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2005
    Messages:
    31,266
    Will that change how you handle this in the future? Will you tell your colleagues about this?

    "...you’re either part of the solution or you’re part of the problem." - Eldridge Cleaver, 1968
     
  39. JeffDG

    JeffDG Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2009
    Messages:
    17,510
    Location:
    Oak Ridge, TN

    Display name:
    JeffDG
    I've been getting that saying wrong...
    [​IMG]
     
  40. Unregistered

    Unregistered Guest

    I am 25 and just recently had to do this. I was diagnosed with ADHD when I was 16 and was prescribed adderall. It took me nearly 2 full years of ridiculous testing and interviews to get my diagnosis reversed. Some of the most expensive and worthless examinations I could of ever imagined.