Actual Short Field w/ Obstacles Practice

WakeNCAgent

WakeNCAgent

Pre-takeoff checklist
Joined
Dec 13, 2012
Messages
133
Location
Raleigh, NC
Display Name
Display name:
Louis
I'm not a thousand hour pilot, and likely never will be. But I'm continuing to develop my skills after a 20 year hiatus from aviation. Last week I decided to finally try an actual short field landing with the proverbial 50' obstacle. I earned my license years ago in South Florida, where the land is flat, the weather predictable and the trees not that prevalent around airports. I now live in North Carolina, and I tell you there's no shortage of challenging stuff here for pilots. We left Raleigh Executive Jetport (KTTA) and headed for Twin Lakes Airport (8A7), which is located approx 69nm to the Northwest, in one of our club's Cessna 172S Skyhawk SP's.

Winds were terrible. I wouldn't have flown if not with an instructor, and this was one of the best in the area. Surface winds ranged from 10 knots steady to 17 knot gusts and winds at 4500 were screaming at 43 knots! I edited the 2+ hour flight to just 20 minutes. It was an amazing experience - both exhilarating and terrifying.

The arrival at Twin Lakes begins at minute 2:31 in the video.

 
Good for you! With practice comes familiarity.

My "home" strip. 1000' x 15' of gravel in a cut in the trees. The prevailing wind is a left quartering wind over the near-100' trees. I rarely use more than half of the surface. Mechanical turbulence is what'll get your attention.

Here's a lazy sunny day landing to opposite direction of the still photo. My parking spot is 600' from the approach threshold going this direction.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=em-upload_owner&v=QlfuPVDE7CY&app=desktop
 

Attachments

  • DSCN1672.jpeg
    DSCN1672.jpeg
    93.7 KB · Views: 49
Last edited:
Nice video,always good to get in soe short field practice,just in case.
 
Nicely done! I liked the crosswind adjustments in particular.

Funny how one's feelings about an airport or an approach is driven by what you are used to. Coming from FL, Lee Co (or whatever it's called these days) would seem comfortable. In fact it is typical of NC - a new strip, cut out of the pine trees with a width, smooth, long runway. The old Lee Co was abandoned not long ago but it would pass for a perfectly good airport in many places around the country. We have a lot of really nice and updated airports throughout the state.

We used to have a flight school operating our of Lake Ridge (8NC8). You ought to come over and shoot a landing or two with your CFI for some soft field/obstruction work.
Landing at Lake Ridge
It's all what you are used to.

BTW, I've never been into Twin Lakes but noted that you were landing downhill. You should try it uphill just to compare. Everything becomes much less critical landing uphill. My landing at Lake Ridge was downhill has well - but we land uphill even with a tailwind component of 5-8 knots. If the slope is steep enough, it trumps the wind direction.

Keep at it!
 
It is always about familiarity. If you trained out of a shorter strip, you would have a totally different feeling; however, it is true that you always have to be on your game and not sloppy when you are at the edge of your envelope.

Here's a fun question to ask yourself - what would you have done had you discovered on final that you didn't have flaps? I recommend that you always check that your flaps did what you asked them to and that you go out and practice some no-flap landings and decision making skills (no flaps, go around, land somewhere else).

I found myself highly dependent on flaps for shorter fields early on in the 172 and it bit me later, especially considering it CAN land without flaps...

Thanks for posting the video!
 
Stewartb said:
Good for you! With practice comes familiarity.

My "home" strip. 1000' x 15' of gravel in a cut in the trees. The prevailing wind is a left quartering wind over the near-100' trees. I rarely use more than half of the surface. Mechanical turbulence is what'll get your attention.
Click to expand...

Wow! Now that is definitely one that I would have to pass under my wing, at least for the foreseeable future. Great video!
 
Stay with your training and get a few hundred hours in type. You'll get comfortable with short fields and wind, and the combination of the two. If you don't fly short strips regularly, buy an instructor hour or two every now and again and polish your skills. The same goes for other maneuvers that you don't exercise regularly on your own.
 
Bill Watson said:
We used to have a flight school operating our of Lake Ridge (8NC8). You ought to come over and shoot a landing or two with your CFI for some soft field/obstruction work.
Landing at Lake Ridge
It's all what you are used to.
Click to expand...

I try and fly somewhere every month. Last month I flew to Rockingham (KRCZ) and did my first soft field landings. It was awesome! Having practiced soft and short field maneuvers on a long asphalt strip is no substitution for the real thing. The short field, in particular, raised the pucker factor by an order of magnitude greater than I expected.
 
MAKG1 said:
Short field? That's 3000 feet. It's a little narrow.
Click to expand...
That was pretty much my thought when it was first suggested, but once I actually saw it from the air with the trees so close to the runway my opinion quickly changed. For someone who has only 185 hrs and is accustomed to landing on a wide open 6500' runway that is 100' wide, this was definitely a short field. I guess it is all a matter of one's perception.
 
Crawl before you walk, walk before you run. There's no shame in being new to it.

Happy Thanksgiving.
 
Sounds like you were flying with Ronney. It's good to get away from TTA and experience some different types of airports.
 
An obvious goal would be 5NC3 with the fine NC barbecue. Only 2500 but nice level surface. It has tree but they don't as much obstruct as they do frame.

Have you been in there yet? It's about 'equivalent' to landing downhill at Twin Lakes and you rewarded with BBQ and a good airshow on warm Saturdays.
 
WakeNCAgent said:
................. Having practiced soft and short field maneuvers on a long asphalt strip is no substitution for the real thing. The short field, in particular, raised the pucker factor by an order of magnitude greater than I expected.
Click to expand...
Yeah, one can practice short field on a long asphalt runway (minus the pucker factor) but there's really no way to realistically simulate a soft field.
 
Its funny how where you fly colors what you perceive as short/long. I'm used to 2800 ft so when I xc somewhere with 3500 or 5k foot runway it throws me off cause you don't have to be precise at all. Narrow is what I don't like, I don't worry about distance since the cessnas I fly will all stop in the first 3rd of pretty much any runway, and you can just dump flaps and slip it if your high..
 
WakeNCAgent said:
That was pretty much my thought when it was first suggested, but once I actually saw it from the air with the trees so close to the runway my opinion quickly changed. For someone who has only 185 hrs and is accustomed to landing on a wide open 6500' runway that is 100' wide, this was definitely a short field. I guess it is all a matter of one's perception.
Click to expand...

I would suggest you take a look at the performance data for the aircraft your are flying and see what it is capable of... 3000 feet isn't close to pushing the limit. Obviously given your experiences it is short, but I'd strongly recommend becoming proficient at landing the aircraft on a runway that size. It dramatically increases your options for destinations as well as giving you more options in an emergency. If during your training you never went into an airport that size or smaller I feel like your initial CFI did you a serious disservice.

Not trying to be an agitator, I'm sure based on your expeirnce this is a short field with high obstacles, but for many, if not most, 172 pilots its pretty typical of everyday operations. Keep working until it feels comfortable and then start looking at some true short fields. You'll be a better and more confident pilot for it.
 
2500x45 is the smallest runway for me. With 3000 being the normal length.
 
Practice makes perfect......

Try to hit a given spot on any runway....:yes:..

I missed my touchdown point by a few inches..... :mad2::mad2:..

Fast forward to the last few seconds of the video...

https://vimeo.com/99409296
 
Bill Watson said:
An obvious goal would be 5NC3 with the fine NC barbecue. Only 2500 but nice level surface. It has tree but they don't as much obstruct as they do frame.
Click to expand...

That was our first choice, but the winds just wouldn't have allowed it, at least not within my personal minimums. We scoured the area for an equivalent strip and Twin Lakes was the best we could find. And, yes, Ronney was with me (thank goodness!).
 
When I was a newly minted PP, my CFI suggested I should take a trip up to Cedar Key (KCDK) ....the 2000' runway with water at both ends sure got my attention for what was my first "real" short field landing !





I have to admit I had to abort the first attempt and go around to compose myself better before having the confidence to touch down... :redface:
 
Shortest I managed last year was 1800' in my instructor's 8E. A single 50' tree off the departure end required some maneuvering to clear. Pucker factor was high. Will try to get some video next time.
 
Bill Watson said:
An obvious goal would be 5NC3 with the fine NC barbecue. Only 2500 but nice level surface. It has tree but they don't as much obstruct as they do frame.

Have you been in there yet? It's about 'equivalent' to landing downhill at Twin Lakes and you rewarded with BBQ and a good airshow on warm Saturdays.
Click to expand...

I have been wanting to go there. But it always seems to be too hot or too cold or the day the BBQ place is closed. I'm certain that it has nothing to do with the short, narrow runway. :wink2:
 
Last edited:
Xscaliber said:
When I was a newly minted PP, my CFI suggested I should take a trip up to Cedar Key (KCDK) ....the 2000' runway with water at both ends sure got my attention for what was my first "real" short field landing !
Click to expand...
Nice shot of Cedar Key! A bit dated though - I think all the homes and the taxi way to the right are outside the fence now. The taxiway is now just a street. There are a bunch of hangar homes in the lower RH corner that are outside of the fence and no longer have access.

We went in there just a few weeks ago. It was clearly short but upon inspection, completely free of obstructions meaning I could drag it in however I want. I chose to land downwind on 5 because the low approach I planned would be over the water rather than low over those homes.

I slightly screwed up the approach and it turned into a normal approach rather than a 'drag it in and kill it approach'. But here's where the glider experience kicked in - I am strongly inclined to make the landing work rather than go around - go around's are failures in my warped mind. That's WRONG THINKING!

No problem however. With the speed right we just landed; 2,000 feet is plenty.

I later watched several planes land and of course they all dragged it in low over the homes, but there was still a lot of heavy braking because some didn't nail the speed and floated 1/3 way down anyway.

BTW, nice rental homes around the runway that are walking distance and only require a bike or cart to get around.

Watch out for jumping mullet!
 
Bill Watson said:
Nice shot of Cedar Key! A bit dated though - I think all the homes and the taxi way to the right are outside the fence now. The taxiway is now just a street. There are a bunch of hangar homes in the lower RH corner that are outside of the fence and no longer have access.

We went in there just a few weeks ago. It was clearly short but upon inspection, completely free of obstructions meaning I could drag it in however I want. I chose to land downwind on 5 because the low approach I planned would be over the water rather than low over those homes.

I slightly screwed up the approach and it turned into a normal approach rather than a 'drag it in and kill it approach'. But here's where the glider experience kicked in - I am strongly inclined to make the landing work rather than go around - go around's are failures in my warped mind. That's WRONG THINKING!

No problem however. With the speed right we just landed; 2,000 feet is plenty.

I later watched several planes land and of course they all dragged it in low over the homes, but there was still a lot of heavy braking because some didn't nail the speed and floated 1/3 way down anyway.

BTW, nice rental homes around the runway that are walking distance and only require a bike or cart to get around.

Watch out for jumping mullet!
Click to expand...

I know that this might be a dumb question, but why the fence? A hanger home with no runway access doesn' t make sense to me.
 
Here's a view of a recent stop at a 1650' turf in south central Ohio. On the approach end is about a 5-10' drop off so you cannot land short. You can see a 152 at the far end. I was stopped well short of him in my O300 equipped '66 172.

And how it looked on the ground. http://youtu.be/Jd3BlLeELz0 .

My wife doesn't fly with me much so maybe it's a good thing. She didn't know whether this was short or long. :rolleyes2:
 

Attachments

  • Landing.Shaws.JPG
    Landing.Shaws.JPG
    1.5 MB · Views: 35
Morgan3820 said:
I have been wanting to go there. But it always seems to be too hot or too cold or the day the BBQ place is closed. I'm certain that it has nothing to do with the short, narrow runway. :wink2:
Click to expand...
Ha! Sometimes all you need a mission (BBQ) and commitment (a passenger or CFI).

It's open 6 days a week and closed Mondays ;)

They do ribs as well as classic NC style pork ;);)

On nice Saturdays, it is not only open, but you have a bunch of landing judges keep a sly eye on each landing in between bites of meat (see commitment). ;););)

Actually it's a great landing practice destination. It's long enough and wide enough for practically any SEL plane but the sight picture is challenging for those use to big and wide airports. The whole airport is level but seems to be on the side of hill. There are trees on both ends that don't really obstruct but it looks like they do. It's a wingspan and a half wide but that's narrow down here in the land of big assed county airports.

We'll see you there in the spring!
 
iflyvfr said:
Here's a view of a recent stop at a 1650' turf in south central Ohio. On the approach end is about a 5-10' drop off so you cannot land short. You can see a 152 at the far end. I was stopped well short of him in my O300 equipped '66 172.

And how it looked on the ground. http://youtu.be/Jd3BlLeELz0 .

My wife doesn't fly with me much so maybe it's a good thing. She didn't know whether this was short or long. :rolleyes2:
Click to expand...
That's a SWEET airport!! Makes me want to get a taildragger again just because....

The still pic seems to be of an uphill approach, the vid of a down hill. Piece-of-cake and gotta-hit-the-numbers respectively.
 
"It feels like we're in Russia" hahaha YES! I know what u mean!

It sounds like there may be enough interest in a southeast GtG/flyin to the pik n pig. Should we start organizing? If be happy to help get it going, maybe start with a thread in the 'cool places to fly' section. Anyways, I'm IN!
 
Bill Watson said:
Ha! Sometimes all you need a mission (BBQ) and commitment (a passenger or CFI).

It's open 6 days a week and closed Mondays ;)

They do ribs as well as classic NC style pork ;);)

On nice Saturdays, it is not only open, but you have a bunch of landing judges keep a sly eye on each landing in between bites of meat (see commitment). ;););)

Actually it's a great landing practice destination. It's long enough and wide enough for practically any SEL plane but the sight picture is challenging for those use to big and wide airports. The whole airport is level but seems to be on the side of hill. There are trees on both ends that don't really obstruct but it looks like they do. It's a wingspan and a half wide but that's narrow down here in the land of big assed county airports.

We'll see you there in the spring!
Click to expand...

Pick a Saturday and i will meet you there.
 
Cool video. Airport reminds me of Raleigh East.

I'd be up for a pik-n-pig meet and greet.
 
Bill Watson said:
Nice shot of Cedar Key! A bit dated though - I think all the homes and the taxi way to the right are outside the fence now. The taxiway is now just a street. There are a bunch of hangar homes in the lower RH corner that are outside of the fence and no longer have access.

We went in there just a few weeks ago. It was clearly short but upon inspection, completely free of obstructions meaning I could drag it in however I want. I chose to land downwind on 5 because the low approach I planned would be over the water rather than low over those homes.

I slightly screwed up the approach and it turned into a normal approach rather than a 'drag it in and kill it approach'. But here's where the glider experience kicked in - I am strongly inclined to make the landing work rather than go around - go around's are failures in my warped mind. That's WRONG THINKING!

No problem however. With the speed right we just landed; 2,000 feet is plenty.

I later watched several planes land and of course they all dragged it in low over the homes, but there was still a lot of heavy braking because some didn't nail the speed and floated 1/3 way down anyway.

BTW, nice rental homes around the runway that are walking distance and only require a bike or cart to get around.

Watch out for jumping mullet!
Click to expand...

Yes it was a while back when we took the shot coming in at Cedar Key, fall 2012, I believe the fence went up during 2013, Was making a return trip there last month but around 10 mile out my seat back support mechanism collapsed ! So we diverted to Ocala made our landing with my wife holding my flight bag jammed behind it to keep it upright, couldn't fix it so flew back home from the right seat and my wife sat in the back.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top