Accelerated course vs months

RobertSubnet

RobertSubnet

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Robert
Hello all. I was reading about the "concentrated" PPL course that "comes with" the new Piper Archer LX.

Earning a PPL is something I definitely want to do. What I am wondering, is it better to take a concentrated "crash course" that lasts a couple of weeks or a program that takes a few months? I would imagine learning style and schedule have a lot to do with it as well.

Back in my undergrad days I took a few summer school courses. I really enjoyed the accelerated pace but one had to be absolutely committed to the schedule in order for it to work. I would assume a "concentrated" PPL course would be the same way...?

I would really enjoy reading your thoughts having gone through the process.

Thanks,
~Robert
 
I think accelerated flight training programs can be a great way to learn and get the license, if they are taught by very experienced instructors who know how to teach.

I also think that if you don't keep flying after you finish, you might lose the skill just as fast as you got it. That is, are you going to "barely afford" the accelerated program, and then be broke for the next year? Cost is a huge issue. Just make sure you can afford to keep flying after you get a license.

Personally, at least for private pilot, i preferred the "take a few months +" approach. It allowed me to get used to a more stable "flying budget" that permits me to continue flying after I got the license, and it let me experience more adverse type weather, with an instructor. If you do an accelerated training, you could possibly have perfect weather the entire time and you might not get to experience strong cross winds and stuff like that.

So, I would say, it depends on you.

Are you looking to fly for fun or professionally?
 
Ive seen arguments both ways. My finances dictated a "longer" training period of 10 months (which is quick for some). Since I flew late summer to early spring, I got to experience lots of weather / conditions. Learned how to prep the plane for winter flying, etc.

Besides not experiencing different weather, how many times will you check it...... pre-flight..... flight plan, etc. during a short course? Repetition builds memory. If you do something 15 times (3 week course), you might never become consistent. OR you might never hit the point in a pre-flight where you've become complacent and LEARN to slow down and do a proper check. (Wisconsin winters at 10F on the tarmac, you WANT to do a quick pre-flight, but can't.)

The other side is things get forgotten between lessons. A couple times I flew only once in two weeks. Forgot a few things, and spent some of the lesson $ relearning.

From my own experience, Id say 2 times a week is pretty good. And its an easier transition to the once per week or so, maintenance flying after your license.
 
Avoid the crash course - crashing comes naturally, so there is no need to learn how to do it!
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I was wondering if someone would pick-up on that:)

Andrew, the flying would be non-commercial. So there would not be the pressure to get my ticket and then get a job.
 
I have done accelerated courses for private, and instrument. More paced approach for my commercial.

Nothing wrong with an accelerated course so long as you get a good one. My instrument was a real monkey circus with round robin of instructors on different days and no clear syllabus and I didn't like it at all. OTOH I don't like that my commercial has taken so long and I wish I had just enrolled full time somewhere and knocked it out.
 
I was on such a tight budget, I completed it in about 50 hours, spread over about a 4 year period.
 
I got my PPL the normal part 61 route over the course of a couple of years, then had a bit of a hiatus in my flying, then moved to Japan. Since it always involved a bit of travel to the states, nearly all of my ratings since that time have been on accelerated courses.

I did the instrument course through the Morey West Coast Adventure. I couldn't recommend that or something like it more. That was a brilliant course.

The commercial ticket, I did on my own over the holidays in Albuquerque. Mostly I just needed the hours and someone to fly with me a bit and explain the maneuvers. So this wasn't really an accelerated course.

The Commercial Multiengine - I did that at Sheble. I came out of that two days later feeling like I had been beaten. The course was good, but this is one rating I would recommend taking one's time over. It worked for me at the time because I more wanted to see what Sheble's was like, and less about getting the MEI. This would come back to bite me later...

...when I did my CFI tickets at ATP. The class is geared towards people who are already quite comfortable in a Seminole. I wasn't, and struggled through the entire practical portion.

Looking back, I would say I have two conclusions - one, do your due diligence on the course and get something that works for you (the rotating roster of instructors mentioned in another post reminds me of this). I shopped quite a bit for all of these courses before pulling out my checkbook.

Two - I don't really think doing multiengine in an accelerated course works at all. Dragons live there, and there's no substitute for time and experience.


Brian
 
RobertSubnet said:
I would imagine learning style and schedule have a lot to do with it as well.
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Part of it depends on whether you have a journey or a destination personality. There's also money. You will probably get it done with less expense if you do it in an accelerated program. However, as someone mentioned, if you don't have the money to continue to fly after that at some reasonable pace you will forget a lot.
 
Jaybird180 said:
...and I thought I took a long time :stirpot:
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Well, that started when I was 14. I now have accumulated about 150 hours total over a 40 year period. Trust me, you don't want to be too slow...
 
Take the accelerated course, get the rating. If it comes with the plane, why not?

Remember that that rating is a license to learn. So when you get home, remember to keep on flying with instructors. Getting the rating is the beginning of your training.
 
handy said:
The Commercial Multiengine - I did that at Sheble. I came out of that two days later feeling like I had been beaten.

Looking back, I would say I have two conclusions - one, do your due diligence on the course and get something that works for you (the rotating roster of instructors mentioned in another post reminds me of this).
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:dunno: Huh. Wonder why. :rofl:
 
So, is there a PoA consensus on accelerated courses for:

IR
Comm
Multi
?
 
Jaybird180 said:
So, is there a PoA consensus on accelerated courses for:

IR
Comm
Multi
?
Click to expand...
I don't know about consensus, but for me, personally, I think that accelerated for private would have been crazy, for IR would have been iffy, but for comm and multi would have been perfectly fine.
-harry
 
Jaybird180 said:
So, is there a PoA consensus on accelerated courses for:

IR
Comm
Multi
?
Click to expand...

Is there a PoA consensus for anything? ;)

For private it's hard to do because of weather. IR has fewer weather restrictions, but they still exist. Comm and multi are easier to do, but the issue with multi is that you typically need fewer hours for your training than will be sufficient for insurance requirements to solo.

Depends mostly on the student and curriculum, I think.
 
mantakos said:
"A few months" sounds pretty accelerated to me.
-harry
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Agreed. I'm trying to fly 3 or more times a week, I started at the end of January, didn't solo until 39 or 40 hours and hoping to get my PPL by OCTOBER 2011 - weather and schedules and plane issues and what not stop me from flying 3 times per week like I want to and it often turns into one day per week....

So January through October -that is more than a few months I think!

I am learning to be patient with weather etc but it can be hard to do.

Kimberly
 
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kimberlyanne546 said:
Agreed. I'm trying to fly 3 or more times a week, I started at the end of January, didn't solo until 39 or 40 hours and hoping to get my PPL by OCTOBER 2011 - weather and schedules and plane issues and what not stop me from flying 3 times per week like I want to and it often turns into one day per week....

So January through October -that is more than a few months I think!

I am learning to be patient with weather etc but it can be hard to do.

Kimberly
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If you didn't solo until 39-40 hours, that's the bigger issue.

With good instructors and average students, expect completion in roughly 45 hours total time.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
If you didn't solo until 39-40 hours, that's the bigger issue.

With good instructors and average students, expect completion in roughly 45 hours total time.
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Well true... BUT, I didn't finish my last supervised solo until 30hrs. Weather was the primary factor. We'd get too windy, low vis, low cloud ceilings (damn winter). Finished all of my dual training, extra x-countries, and had nothing left but my Solo work.

60hrs. total, which includes a couple of unnecessary but fun cheeseburger runs.
 
TripleZ said:
60hrs. total, which includes a couple of unnecessary but fun cheeseburger runs.
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And I know some very good pilots who took 65 hours to complete it. Yes, lots of factors impact completion time (especially weather), but if your first solo is at 40 hours, it'll be hard for you to complete everything else by 45.
 
mantakos said:
"A few months" sounds pretty accelerated to me.
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To me, "accelerated" means devoting your full day to it, multiple days in a row with limited time off, just like work. I pulled up this FAQ from a school for example. I have no knowledge of the place. It's just the first listing on Google for "accelerated private pilot course".

http://www.sunstateaviation.com/faq.html

Q: What is "ACCELERATED FLIGHT TRAINING"?

A: Contrary to what some believe; accelerated flight training is not a watered-down, "drinking from the fire hose" kind of cram course. Rather, it is a highly organized, comprehensive flight training program where you, the Pilot-in-Training are taken out of your normal day to day environment and placed in an environment where you are totally immersed in the subject matter for the duration of your training so you can learn at your optimal pace. For most people, this interprets to about 2.5 hours of flight training and 3-4 hours of ground instruction per day (most of the ground instruction is a computer-based, self-study program - more on that in a moment). Any more than that is is typically counter-productive while any less is not fully engaging the pilot-in-training to the point where their leaning curve is maximized. The goal here is for you to become a safe, knowledgeable and proficient pilot in the most cost-and-time-efficient way possible without compromising safety or the quality of the training experience.

Q: How long will it take?

A: Our Accelerated Flight Training courses are designed to take a typical pilot-in-training from the very beginning to completion in the cost-and-time-efficient way possible. For example: The 21 day Private Pilot Course and the 14 day Instrument Rating Course. This means that the courses are paced to where the average person, starting from the beginning, can complete the entire syllabus in that many days - including the written exam and check-ride.
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I went through and maybe even still going through this thought process. After getting my plane I was having trouble finding an instructor who could/would fly more than an hour a week. I started looking into just getting someone to ferry my plane somewhere and camping out for a few weeks.

Many of the experienced instructors on this site and elsewhere said that accelerated training works well for advanced ratings, but not as well for the private.

I have found a wonderful instructor, but there are issues that are still keeping me out of the sky. I have not yet completely ruled out taking my plane somewhere for an accelerated school. There are risks in my case. I could only take two weeks in a row off from work, so what if I get weathered onto the ground during those two weeks?

If the course comes with a plane purchase, you should try to take advantage of it as much as possible. Even if you don't finish in the allotted time and come home to finish with a local instructor. If the course is available where you live then it would be even better.

My $0.02,
Doc
 
I found this website while looking for information on insurance for a new plane. This thread caught my attention having just completed accelerated flight training and passed my check ride two days ago.

I completed my training from start to finish in 4 weeks (28 days) with 53.5 total hours including 12.7 solo. The training could have been completed a week earlier if I didn't go home every 4 days or so, and have to wait five days at the end to get my check ride. We also had some weather issues that made finishing my night flights, and some of my final flights, difficult. To get my last night flight, I had to wake up at 0130.

My first solo was complete seven days after I started. My three cross countries were complete two and a half weeks in. The program required total dedication, 3 plus hours of flying per day (including weekends) and about eight hours a day studying.

Basically, my entire focus was flying. I saw my family for only a day here and there, went to work for a total of maybe 8 hours in the four weeks, and stayed in a cheap hotel that was five minutes from the airport. Cost for hotel, training, food etc. was about $13-14k.

The training was difficult and I spent a lot of time out of my comfort zone, but by the end, I was very comfortable in the plane, scored in the 90's on my written, and had no problem with my check ride or oral.

If you can make the sacrifices, I think it's the best way to go. I'm planning a trip in a rental plane this week, and have my high performance endorsement scheduled for next weekend (I'm interested in buying a C182). I've been thinking about flying for two years and knew this was the only way I would get it done.
 
Welcome to the board!

That regimen certainly re quoted dedication and sacrifice. I'm curious about what led you into aviation to begin with and gave you that kind of passion!

jkrace said:
I found this website while looking for information on insurance for a new plane. This thread caught my attention having just completed accelerated flight training and passed my check ride two days ago.

I completed my training from start to finish in 4 weeks (28 days) with 53.5 total hours including 12.7 solo. The training could have been completed a week earlier if I didn't go home every 4 days or so, and have to wait five days at the end to get my check ride. We also had some weather issues that made finishing my night flights, and some of my final flights, difficult. To get my last night flight, I had to wake up at 0130.

My first solo was complete seven days after I started. My three cross countries were complete two and a half weeks in. The program required total dedication, 3 plus hours of flying per day (including weekends) and about eight hours a day studying.

Basically, my entire focus was flying. I saw my family for only a day here and there, went to work for a total of maybe 8 hours in the four weeks, and stayed in a cheap hotel that was five minutes from the airport. Cost for hotel, training, food etc. was about $13-14k.

The training was difficult and I spent a lot of time out of my comfort zone, but by the end, I was very comfortable in the plane, scored in the 90's on my written, and had no problem with my check ride or oral.

If you can make the sacrifices, I think it's the best way to go. I'm planning a trip in a rental plane this week, and have my high performance endorsement scheduled for next weekend (I'm interested in buying a C182). I've been thinking about flying for two years and knew this was the only way I would get it done.
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Thanks for the welcome.

I had to think a minute about your question. While I'm excited about flying and continuing on to an instrument rating, traveling, etc., I'm not sure it was passion that got me through the course. I think it was just a better fit for the way I do things.

I guess my interest is due to a combination of things from my distaste for security lines and delays, to a need for mental stimulation. My father is a long time pilot with decades of experience with probably twenty thousand hours or more. I'm hoping to spend some time with him, as well as my family traveling, and ultimately teach my young daughter to be my co-pilot.
 
mantakos said:
"A few months" sounds pretty accelerated to me.
-harry
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Meh - I did my private start to finish in two days shy of three months (2-14 to 5-12) and 42.6 hours, and that was when I had a job that kept me away from home 11 out of every 14 days. I flew like mad on the days I was home, and got 'er done quickly. Studied ground material and forums when I was on the road.

mantakos said:
I don't know about consensus, but for me, personally, I think that accelerated for private would have been crazy, for IR would have been iffy, but for comm and multi would have been perfectly fine.
-harry
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Accelerated IR that doesn't go anywhere: Yes, iffy. Accelerated IR of the Morey adventure variety that gets you out of the nest and into some weather: Excellent. I wish I'd done it. My IR took freaking forever. ~Sep. 2003 through April 2006, with about 89 hours of simulated and actual instrument conditions and about 100 total flight hours (including the taxi time, etc) by the time I was done with it. Ugh. Of course, there was a big break in the middle of that due to financial reasons, and a switch in instructors when I returned too.

Commercial: I learned the maneuvers with a couple of flights at the home 'drome in the Arrow, but I did it mostly over a single weekend with Tony in the 182RG.

Comm Multi: Two days in Michigan in a 150hp Apache, of course with sufficient prep on the ground before I went there. Take off, steep turn(s), stall(s), fail, feather, unfeather, restart, shoot an approach or three, land, lather, rinse, repeat, checkride. While I'll want some further "graduate" instruction should I own a twin in the future, having the rating got me some jet time so I can't complain.

So... It depends on the rating, your experience, your learning style, availability of airplanes and instructors in your local area or lack thereof, etc. Neither is better for every person, rating, or situation. After getting my private quickly but in a non-accelerated manner, I had more experience when I got the others, especially the accelerated ones: 283.7 when I got my IR, 664.3 when I got the Commercial ASEL, 688.6 about six weeks later when I got the Commercial Multi. I'm not sure I'd have been able to do so well at the latter ones had I not had so much flight experience under my belt. YMMV.
 
Jaybird180 said:
So, is there a PoA consensus on accelerated courses for:

IR
Comm
Multi
?
Click to expand...

My only problem with an accelerated instrument rating course is that the opportunities to fly in actual weather might be limited. Ten days of good weather, flying under the hood, and then you get to take your family into the bad stuff? I really feel sorry for those folks who train for the rating in the desert southwest.

Bob Gardner
 
Weather. Weather is the common denominator in determining any course length.

An aspiring pilot must also learn to be a dang good weather forecaster.

Learning to do that takes actual practice at analyzing and predicting weather, and going out and seeing how it actually is, and having to make go/no-go decisions, and decisions to turn around or modify your flight plan.

If you could order-up the appropriate different types of weather days throughout a 2 week period, the aspiring initial pilot could conceivably learn the appropriate practical applications of weather flying and decision making.

By weather, I mean wind and bumpiness when it comes to initial pilot training.
Relatively smooth air and little or no x/winds are important weather conditions for initial learning of control inputs. Good clear horizons are important for good pitch/bank attitude control.

Relatively good all-around weather is necessary to do the initial x/c and night training.

A private pilot who gets certificated in 2 weeks had a good run of good weather, and is like getting a driver's license and never leaving the parking lot.

After the PP, for the IR and so on, the aspiring pilot should look for all the bad weather he or she can find.

So, take the time to learn wx in your PP, or get it quick but limit yourself to local flying until you have a better sense of changing wx conditions.
 
I think a big part of the answer to the OP comes from looking at what else is going on in your life.

If nothing else is loading you down and nothing else would be neglected, maybe it would be a good choice.

For example, my job involves multi-year technical projects chock full of technical details and deadlines. No way am I ever unemcumbered with project issues for very long.

No way do I study well at home after work, no way can I absorb and retain all new technical material rapidly. I'm bright enough, but do have finite intellectual capacity.

If I took a month off and just did an immersion thing, that would work.

Flying regularly pushes al the other junk off the radar for a while. Working out helps me burn off the stress. But, I also have finite energy. So I do whatever else, after the nap.

Good luck with whatever you choose.
 
I'd use the word "intensive" rather than "accelerated" -- you still only get one hour of training per hour.

Based on my experience teaching 10-day instrument courses, the three most critical questions are:
  • Can you can put everything else in your life (work, family, etc) to the side for 3 weeks or so while you do this?
  • Will you be able to make the time to practice what you've learned a couple of times a week for the next 6 weeks or so after completion?
  • Can you physically and mentally stand the pace of training eight hours a day (including flight and ground work), every day plus a couple of hours of study each night for that many days in a row?
If the answers to all three are "yes," then this is a great way to go. If not, take the more traditional route.
 
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