Ab Initio in a trike with no right side brakes

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docmirror

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Have a friend who wants to get their ticket. Zero logable time in any plane. Has flown with me more than 20 hours, but never any ground handling.

They've found a 'perfect' plane at a reasonable price and are itching to buy it, but the plane has no right side brakes. Left side has standard toe brakes, and standard rudders on both sides, but just lacking brakes on right.

First - can it be done legally?

Second - if so, any specific steps to add for training from the start?

Brakes cannot be added without massive expense, making the deal no longer palatable. Which - I surmise is why the plane is for sale at a decent price.
 
hm....most cherokees don't have brakes on the right side and it's often used as a trainer. but they do have a hand brake in the middle.
 
you can do it in a bonanza with no brakes and no wheel on the right side if you want.
 
JHW said:
you can do it in a bonanza with no brakes and no wheel on the right side if you want.
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Brakes are not part of dual controls as far as the FAA is concerned. The yoke is. You can not do primary training with only a throw-over yoke (though you can temporarily fit a dual yoke in the Bonanzas equipped that way). Only instrument training qualifies for the exemption to dual controls in 91.109.
 
docmirror said:
First - can it be done legally?
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Yes. The FAA Chief Counsel is on record in a 2000 legal interpretation saying brakes aren't part of the regulatorily required dual controls, so it would be legal. That said, as a matter of personal choice, I would not do this without at least a central handbrake like the one on many Pipers.
 
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JHW said:
you can do it in a bonanza with no brakes and no wheel on the right side if you want.
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Not legally for ab initio training.
(a) No person may operate a civil aircraft (except a manned free balloon) that is being used for flight instruction unless that aircraft has fully functioning dual controls. However, instrument flight instruction may be given in an airplane that is equipped with a single, functioning throwover control wheel that controls the elevator and ailerons, in place of fixed, dual controls, when--
(1) The instructor has determined that the flight can be conducted safely; and
(2) The person manipulating the controls has at least a private pilot certificate with appropriate category and class ratings.
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Giving training with a throwover yoke is legal only for instrument training, flight reviews, obtaining recency experience, and preparation for an IPC and the trainee must at least be rated and in some cases fully PIC-qualified.
 
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This is what I thought. I'm thinking that if the CFI wants to demo the proper use of the brakes, they may start out with CFI left seat, and student right seat for a bit, then get the feel for ground handling and braking and then switch over. they might have to switch once or twice for short/soft field demo, but overall the training can be done with no right side brakes.

May have a new pilot start next month.
 
docmirror said:
This is what I thought. I'm thinking that if the CFI wants to demo the proper use of the brakes, they may start out with CFI left seat, and student right seat for a bit, then get the feel for ground handling and braking and then switch over. they might have to switch once or twice for short/soft field demo, but overall the training can be done with no right side brakes.

May have a new pilot start next month.
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My cherokee didn't have brakes on either side, only a hand break. if it's an Bo, it should have a parking brake in the right side of the panel. We both know how well that works though.

What type of plane is it? Cherokee? no problem. Bonanza? Make sure you got a looooong runway.
 
bartmc said:
My cherokee didn't have brakes on either side, only a hand break. if it's an Bo, it should have a parking brake in the right side of the panel. We both know how well that works though.

What type of plane is it? Cherokee? no problem. Bonanza? Make sure you got a looooong runway.
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The parking brake is only activated when the pedals are pushed. Mine actually works quite well, but I hesitate to use it for fear of it locking permanently.

Bonanza, she'll be starting on a 7000' x 100' concrete lightly grooved with an overrun at each end of ~ 150'. She weighs 110# and CFI goes about 160. They might need ballast in the baggage bay.
 
I did some of my primary training in a Cherokee 140 with pedal brakes on the left only. Most of that instruction was on >3000ft runways and I dont think the instructor ever had a reason to use the hand brake.
 
Stock Navions only have a hand brake and I've never really had any trouble taxiing those, but mine has left side toe brakes only. I actually had it on line as a rental, but we figured left brakes wouldn't be an issue since it would only rent to those who had their certificate. Well we were wrong. The instructor as giving a checkout and the student seemed to have problems justing the wing span of the Navion and decided that rather than getting near the Lear that was on the left side he should hit the Comanche on the right. I'm sure Buzz was stomping on the nonexistent brakes on his side trying to prevent the impact.

Didn't hurt the Navion much. If the prop on the Comanche had been horizontal, it wouldn't have been a problem but it was vertical and I got a single prop gash about a foot inside the tip tank. The commanche in addition to the prop damage got a nice tip tank shaped grove in the top cowling.
 
docmirror said:
This is what I thought. I'm thinking that if the CFI wants to demo the proper use of the brakes, they may start out with CFI left seat, and student right seat for a bit, then get the feel for ground handling and braking and then switch over. they might have to switch once or twice for short/soft field demo, but overall the training can be done with no right side brakes.

May have a new pilot start next month.
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I start out tailwheel students on the side without brakes if the aircraft is so equipped - did that with a Cessna 120 last week.
 
Wouldn't bother me. I would be bothered if it were a tailwheel but otherwise no problem.
 
The Twin Commanche I am training in only has left side brakes. I still occasionally forget that aspect when the MEI is taxiing. :lol:
 
With the size of runways these days at most training fields brakes are hardly needed. If it was a very short strip I would be more concerned.

I do tailwheel training in airplanes with no brakes on right side as well. Depending on the person it could mean a couple hours in the right seat until I am comfortable with them in control of the brakes.

Shouldn't be a problem.
 
I've got over 200 hours dual given to primary students in PA28s with no right brakes. With the center brake lever it has never been an issues throwing the student in the left side and going... they pick it up pretty quick with only minimal discussion and I have a way to stop the plane if I need to. If I did not have the center brake, I'd certainly consider putting the student on the right side for a while--or finding another airplane.
 
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