AA Passenger dies enroute after being refused oxygen

Glad you said "allegedly" - its family word vs. airline right now - need to interview the passengers who were sitting nearby to be sure.
 
TMetzinger said:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,332189,00.html

Allegedly the person in distress was refused O2 twice by flight attendants, then two O2 bottles were found to be empty. In spite of medical personnel being on board, the patient died enroute to an emergency landing in Miami.

Lawsuits seem justified to me.
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Allegedly is the key phrase here, along with a notation that this is as reported by a non-medical person to the press and thence to us. Let's wat to get a few more facts before calling for lawsuits! :yes:
 
The reports all came from the patient's companion. He also say the defibrillator didn't work.

I smell a "helper" who didn't work well under pressure.

But, hey, sue the airline for causing the heart failure or whatever.
 
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mikea said:
The reports all came from the patient's companion. He also say the defibrillator didn't' work.

I smell a "helper" who didn't work well under pressure.

But, hey, sue the airline for causing the heart failure or whatever.
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No, sue the TSA. Obviously the reason the defibrillator didn't work (I read that it couldn't detect enough of a heartbeat to determine whether to administer a shock) was that the 3 oz. of conductive gel were insufficient to give good contact!:fcross:
 
I have very strong doubt regarding the veracity of the cousin's accounts; while AA has been known to **** me off with their service and some less-than-friendly policies, their cabin staff are professional and well-trained.

I'll believe it when I have heard from someone who is neither the airline's spokesperson, nor the Plaintiff's mouthpiece.
 
SCCutler said:
I have very strong doubt regarding the veracity of the cousin's accounts; while AA has been known to **** me off with their service and some less-than-friendly policies, their cabin staff are professional and well-trained.
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I tend to agree. I have seen a couple medical emergencies on board aircraft all of which were AA. The last one was of a man collapsing in the aisle. A FA responded to him while the other got on the PA asking for help, help from anyone in the cabin. When no Drs stood up I got up, I have a little bit of first responder training and started to help. But about 5 minutes in a physician finally came forward and I handed of to her. The person was having a low blood sugar issue. The FAs all were ready to help and more than willing to do what ever they could.

Another one was a pax was really ill. We were on our way to Japan and had passed Anchorange an 1 hour ago. But it was serious enough that we turned around and went back to let him off. If we had not the next stop is Tokyo, about 6 more hours ahead.
 
I'm glad I used the word alleged as well, in light of the follow on.

I've got a fair amount of experience in dealing with sick people - I worked as a paramedic to support myself while going to college and then continued that work in the Coast Guard for a few years. In my experience the key factor in survival of a cardiac event is rapid availability of advanced life support in the field followed by swift transport to an appropriate care facility - the first part MAY be possible in an airliner, the second part generally isn't. The only time I ever got to see what an airliner carries was back in the early 1990's, and it was a far cry from what I was used to in an ambulance or a helicopter - either a very rudimentary defibrillator with no ability to visualize a lead, or no defibrillator at all, and a very limited set of drugs. We landed within 30 minutes of the incident I was involved in (severe chest pain) and the patient was alive, but died later in the hospital.

If in fact the oxygen wasn't available, that's bad news for the airline. But (as the follow-up reports are saying) it was available and was used relatively quickly, then I don't see what could have been done differently.
 
Yeah, everyone we're hearing from is speaking on their own agenda. I'll be interested to hear some other passenger accounts.

I didn't realize that AA still flew A300's...
 
And if it was a rapid onset of CHF then even oxygen and a AED would have been of limited utility, she needed medications which to my knowledge aren't carried in the drug packs of most airliners. A AED cannot cure all heart problems!

The information on the utility of the defibrillator in both articles (even the quote by the pediatrician which I find puzzling) is so distorted as to be completely erroneous :confused: An automatic external defibrillator designed for a layman (such as the ones on board airliners, in schools, businesses etc.) is only useful for two acute dysrhythmias out of several which can lead to one's death. If your heart is suffering from a different electrical rhythm that is killing you at that moment besides those two specific ones, then you are unfortunately only going to respond to advanced IV drug therapy (or not at all which is all too common even in an ER) and the AED is just going to lay there and "tell" your caregivers to continue CPR. To say that her heart impulses were too "weak" for the AED to respond is misleading.
 
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alaskaflyer said:
A AED cannot cure all heart problems!
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As you know, nothing can cure all heart problems.

To (mis-?)quote M*A*S*H, there are two rules in medicine. Rule 1 is that patients die. Rule 2 is that physicians cannot change rule 1.
 
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NYTimes this morning reports that the O2 bottles did have oxygen. The defib machine worked just fine... when hooked up to the patient the onboard diagnostics decided no shock was needed. It has stored the data and the "black box" is being studied. The O2 was not immediately produced when first requested because there was no MD standing right there, and only a MD can administer... Later, one or more MDs showed up and the O2 was produced.

Now this is the Airlines story. The truth may be somewhere in the middle but the use of the word "allegedly" in the above posts is certainly appropriate!

-Skip
 
In any emergency, no matter what you do, there is always someone who thinks that you should have done something different, or that they could have done it better.
 
Maxmosbey said:
In any emergency, no matter what you do, there is always someone who thinks that you should have done something different, or that they could have done it better.
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Look for the family and/or airline to sue the MD's that were attending to the woman. Sad.
 
Anthony said:
Look for the family and/or airline to sue the MD's that were attending to the woman. Sad.
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They may be in the best position due to the Good Samaritan laws that protect people who offer help. The only questions are what laws apply to an airborne jet.

My point is when you sue the fire department or the airline or the doctors...it's not like they caused the heart condition that killed teh lady.

Everybody is lucky that he jet didn't come near "You WON THE LOTTERY" Cook County courts.
 
mikea said:
They may be in the best position due to the Good Samaritan laws that protect people who offer help. The only questions are what laws apply to an airborne jet.

My point is when you sue the fire department or the airline or the doctors...it's not like they caused the heart condition that killed teh lady.

Everybody is lucky that he jet didn't come near "You WON THE LOTTERY" Cook County courts.
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I'm not a lawyer so maybe on of our legal illuminati will chime in, but if you are a healthcare professional, the Good Samaritan laws may not apply. Do they state laws apply where the airline is based?
 
Anthony said:
I'm not a lawyer so maybe on of our legal illuminati will chime in, but if you are a healthcare professional, the Good Samaritan laws may not apply. Do they state laws apply where the airline is based?
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They'd have to apply or the answer they'd get for "Is there a doctor on the plane?" Would be "Yeah, and I ain't moving an inch." and they'd STILL GET SUED for NOT helping.
 
mikea said:
They'd have to apply or the answer they'd get for "Is there a doctor on the plane?" Would be "Yeah, and I ain't moving an inch." and they'd STILL GET SUED for NOT helping.
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I seem to recall my M-I-L, a nurse in FL, saying that if she is in uniform and doesn't stop at the scene of a traffic accident she could get in trouble. If assistance is mandated, as this seems to suggest, it would be a great flaw in the system if the Good Sam laws did NOT apply. (That's not to suggest that we don't have flaws in the system!:no:)
 
gprellwitz said:
I seem to recall my M-I-L, a nurse in FL, saying that if she is in uniform and doesn't stop at the scene of a traffic accident she could get in trouble. If assistance is mandated, as this seems to suggest, it would be a great flaw in the system if the Good Sam laws did NOT apply. (That's not to suggest that we don't have flaws in the system!:no:)
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There is a lot more to it than just being in uniform. One question would be what is her duty in such a situation? A duty of care must be established and if she was, say a nurse trained in neo-natal, with no emergency nor rescue training she would not be very useful at the scene and has no duty of care to the injured parties. She could end up putting her life in jeopardy as she is unfamiliar with handling herself at an accident scene. The first priority at any accident scene is not to the injured, it is to making the scene safe for rescuers. Then the priority switches to rescue, triage and treatment.

You are only allowed to operate to your training level anyways. Step beyond that and that is where you get into trouble.

For a layman that can be pretty simple. You know CPR, give it, if you feel safe and comfortable, do not start doing a tracheotomy with a vodka bottle top and hunting knife. That is beyond the scope of your abilities, I don't care how many times you have watched ER or Emergency.
 
smigaldi said:
do not start doing a tracheotomy with a vodka bottle top and hunting knife. That is beyond the scope of your abilities, I don't care how many times you have watched ER or Emergency.
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I think MacGyver did it with a Swiss Army knife and a straw.
 
I used to be with the National Ski Patrol. On the airline the good Samaritan law would apply but not on the ski hill and only on the hill I was patrolling. If I was a guest at another resort it did not count. NSP is very close to a first responder or EMT. I think doctors take an oath don't they?

Dan
 
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