A36 Bonanza?

[shyampatel94]

So I've been looking at aircrafts to buy(not going to buy anytime soon just looking). I have been looking at A36 Bonanza's. What do you guys think about this aircraft for a beginner? Anything else I should know about?

 

[weilke]

Easiest plane there is when it comes to landing. Some ab-initio airline training programs use the A36 as primary trainers. It would probably take you longer to solo an A36 than a simple trainer as there are a couple more levers and knobs that you have to learn. Also, insuring a 6-seat HP retract for primary training is going to be eyewatering. Solo in a trainer, transition into the Bo during the later stages of your private ticket like dual cross-country, night, instruiment. Have your instructor listed as the insured. Do all your solo flying and the checkride in the simple trainer. You'll need some more dual after the license before the insurance cuts you loose, use that time as an opportunity to get some instrument time in the book.

The only thing you should know about is that your instructor needs to have experience in Bonanzas if you want to transition during or right after your private cert. Few of the typical flight school CFIs will have enough time in a Bo to be either insurable or useful for your training progress.

 

[LDJones]

If you haven't yet soloed, but a cheap C-150 and get the landings down. Then buy the Bo. They're great airplanes....not cheap, but few if any better.

 

[shyampatel94]

Easiest plane there is when it comes to landing. Some ab-initio airline training programs use the A36 as primary trainers. It would probably take you longer to solo an A36 than a simple trainer as there are a couple more levers and knobs that you have to learn. Also, insuring a 6-seat HP retract for primary training is going to be eyewatering. Solo in a trainer, transition into the Bo during the later stages of your private ticket like dual cross-country, night, instruiment. Have your instructor listed as the insured. Do all your solo flying and the checkride in the simple trainer. You'll need some more dual after the license before the insurance cuts you loose, use that time as an opportunity to get some instrument time in the book.

The only thing you should know about is that your instructor needs to have experience in Bonanzas if you want to transition during or right after your private cert. Few of the typical flight school CFIs will have enough time in a Bo to be either insurable or useful for your training progress.

Well I am still working on my PPL! Is it expensive to keep it? Like maintenance wise?

 

[LDJones]

Well I am still working on my PPL! Is it expensive to keep it? Like maintenance wise?

That may fall into the "if you have to ask you probably can't afford it" category. No airplane is "cheap" to own, but high-performance, six-cylinder, six-seater retractables are at the top of the single-engine food chain and you need to budget accordingly.

 

[poadeleted20]

Quite a few people have bought a 36 Bonanza in which to learn to fly. Generally, these are people who don't have to ask how much it costs, like Hollywood movie stars and other multimillionaires. If spending a couple of hundred thousand dollars isn't much of a factor in your life, there's nothing wrong with doing this. Just realize that for various reasons involving the complexity and high performance of this aircraft compared to "typical" light training airplanes, it's going to take significantly longer to solo and then to complete training. If all that is OK with you, it's a perfectly good choice.

OTOH, if you are learning to fly on a budget, this is likely to be a budget-buster.

 

[jhausch]

If you are seriously interested in Bo's, register and lurk for while on www.beechtalk.com

Once you get the feel of the place and have read other threads about folks starting out in a Bo (or switching during training), dive into the discussion.

If you have the means, you can start in "anything"....

 

[weilke]

Well I am still working on my PPL! Is it expensive to keep it? Like maintenance wise?

The only honest answer is Yes. It is however not any more expensive than planes with comparable capabilities. The two planes most directly comparable to the A36 are the Piper Lance/Saratoga and the Cessna 210. All three are expensive to maintain when compared to a 172 or Piper Archer yet they are a steal compared with a cabin Twin like a Cessna 340 or a Beech Duke.
Come over to Beechtalk.com and browse the threads. A couple of people who have recently transitioned into Bos fresh out of their PPL have posted about their experience. You'll also find lots of information about maintenance and budgets.

 

[bbchien]

Buy a C-150 and abuse it. Don't abuse your Bo.

 

[Tony_Scarpelli]

If we ran a pole of all pilots, owners, for the best or most coveted aircraft A36 would be at or near the top of used traditional transportation type aircraft.

It would be the one I would pick as well. 68 model A36 can be had starting at about $70k before upgrading a panel but a good one closer to $100k or more if it has all the fancy lights of modern panels.

I find them to have a sensitive weight and balance envelope. You should rent one with your family or intended load first (hiring pilot or CFI) to see if the W&B conditions can be met on your typical mission. If you use the back 2 seats they are easy to get out of W&B IMO. They are well balanced for a typical mission of 2 people occasionally 3.

You can calculate your own insurance, hangar and fuel use but the maintenance between a Cherokee type 4 seat trainer 110 knot airplane is about $1100 per year and a complex high performance turbo is about $4400 per year. So if you play with a spread sheet with your own figures you can get an idea of the costs. There will be a first year hit for Insurance until you get 100 hrs and/or IFR rating in the A36. 50 hrs of duel training in this situation is not unlikely but it won't be wasted as you will likely need the IFR or 100 hrs in type to get the insurance to drop from year one to year two and later years.

If you are talking about buying a new 6 seat aircraft then I would also consider the Matrix by Piper if you require the 4+2 seating or Cessna 400 or Cirrus GTS if a 4 seater is good. The bonanza is the slowest of this group. There is also the Cessna Turbo Stationare which is a 6/7 pax plane with amazing abilities and good speed above 10,000' but slightly slower than the Bonanza. The Stationare has great W&B envelope.

Bonanza's have a reputation for being easy to fly and they land nice making the pilots look good. While expensive to buy they probably are no more expensive than any other high performance complex aircraft to maintain. There seem to be 4 areas of expense, concern, service bulletins/ADs and they all have them (210/Bonanza/Comanche...etc): Prop, Engine, Landing gear and Tail.

Although I do support anyone buying their training aircraft to build hours, I am not wild about the idea of buying hi performance complex as a beginner airplane. It can be done obviously you just need to double and triple check yourself for safety and find mentors to help you keep costs down as far as learning maintenance tricks. IMO-There are few mistakes we all likely make in our early post PPL days that might not be as survivable in a slippery wing.

 

[skidoo]

Well I am still working on my PPL!

Thats great. You will find it awesome once you get it...

Is it expensive to keep it?

No. Once you get your PPL, you can keep it essentially forever with very little or no additional cost.

Like maintenance wise?

Now, if you intend to use it and keep current, then that will involve the expense of flying enough to keep current.

 

[weilke]

I would not do the pre-solo training in a Bo. Lots of takeoffs and landings in short succession will be hard on your landing gear motor. If you are Japanese Airlines, the cost to replace a gear motor or two is noise, if you are a private owner, it will create downtime and sour your ownership experience.
Nothing magic about a complex aircraft. What would be expensive is to buy an aircraft that doesn't do what you need it to just because you were told that a Bonanza, Comanche or 210 is 'too much for a new PPL'. Get good training, know your limits, fly overly conservative until you have your instrument ticket. Your attitude and skill is going to determine whether you are a safe pilot, not the piece of hardware you are piloting.

 

[Dave Siciliano]

Owned and flew an A-36 for about five years; wonderful plane. Turbonormalized with tip tanks it gave great range and altitude options. I didn't see the W&B envelope as that limited, but maybe in comparison to something else I didn't fly.

As has been said, most think of this as a move-up rather than training plane. You may be an excellent pilot in training, but you're still going to be hard on the plane until you get some experience.

Best,

Dave