A scary-close call...

Discussion in 'Lessons Learned' started by Lndwarrior, Aug 13, 2017.

  1. Clark1961

    Clark1961 Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2008
    Messages:
    15,625
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Throttle
    If they wiz on my windscreen it is not legal.
     
  2. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2009
    Messages:
    42,662
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    DenverPilot
    If they're that close, you're probably in the tail low slot position and busy holding it by staring at lead's belly beacon. ;)
     
  3. Radar Contact

    Radar Contact Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2016
    Messages:
    829
    Location:
    Illinois
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Kevin
    I may be wrong but I thought cooter was a fighter pilot...if I'm right it would make your comment very funny. Maybe I am wrong. If so, that's just situation normal.
     
    Cooter likes this.
  4. Radar Contact

    Radar Contact Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2016
    Messages:
    829
    Location:
    Illinois
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Kevin
    2000-3000 feet above you? Or was that lateral and decreasing?
     
  5. Ryanb

    Ryanb En-Route PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2010
    Messages:
    4,937
    Location:
    SE Tennessee
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Ryan
    As I have said, none of the traffic avoidance maneuvers that we've mentioned are incorrect. Each one serves a purpose depending on the situation that one encounters. In the scenario of the OP, I do second the notion that he did the correct procedure. I'm just speaking of opinion and the way I was taught back in primary training. An opinion is just an opinion.
     
  6. Cooter

    Cooter Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2015
    Messages:
    1,845
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Cooter
    I'll just jump in with one last thing. When it comes to safety, all opinions are not equal. If you're just out buzzing around and you see another Cessna 5 miles out headed your way, what you're saying may be ok. But the FAA teaches collision avoidance and you are mixing it up with a completely different maneuver. Collision avoidance means getting away from an imminent threat, as in the situation the OP describes. All the talk about positive loading and passenger comfort don't apply. Closure rates are very deceptive until its almost too late. There have been multiple times that I've maneuvered preemptively, thinking I was overdoing it until the other plane passed uncomfortably close by. Your attitude is wrong concerning collision avoidance because you have it mixed up in your head with something totally different. I pointed out that Airline training separates those two, which should be an indication it should at least be considered. I'm not your CFI, but if I were, I would go out and demonstrate exactly how they are different so that you didn't make the wrong choice, which it sounds like you may be primed to do.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2017
    Tarheelpilot and Ryanb like this.
  7. Tarheelpilot

    Tarheelpilot Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2010
    Messages:
    1,630
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Tarheelpilot
    Sounds scary as hell whatever it is. I don't want one.
     
  8. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2009
    Messages:
    42,662
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    DenverPilot
    Nah, I caught it. I was commenting on the separation they had to provide the airliner no matter what you did or where you wandered. ;)
     
  9. tspear

    tspear Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2010
    Messages:
    824
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Timothy
    No, not scary. I found it fun; but then I can be strange. :D
    It is just a rapid descent, with the goal to maximize vertical and/or lateral separation.
    Do this with a CFI, and discuss when to use the techniques. I was taught two approaches:
    1. Push nose over, like the OP did, and accelerate to Vne. If you want to maximize lateral distance, keep some power in. If you want to maximize vertical distance, power to idle.
    2. Bank, push over and power to idle, I was taught up to 45 degrees. Once bank is established, pull back to tighten the turn, add rudder to push nose down and slip to add more drag until approach Vne. Wings level, then nose up to come out.

    Again discuss with a CFI and know when to use them before you attempt it. The second one is definitely an aggressive maneuver, but is useful if you need to change direction and/or get vertical separation. Note: it does not provide lateral separation. As such it really is rather limited in usage.

    I originally asked the question because the OP said he went 60 degrees. No statement on direction (pitch/roll); which started this tangent.

    Tim
     
  10. Mike Smith

    Mike Smith Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    May 15, 2011
    Messages:
    2,062
    Location:
    Prattville, Alabama
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Fresh Prince of PrattVegas
    I was taught the bank and pitch for vfe for an emergency descent and do "whatever it takes" collision avoidance, probably PUSH!!
     
    Cooter likes this.
  11. Brad Z

    Brad Z En-Route

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2007
    Messages:
    4,242
    Location:
    Alexandria VA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Brad Z
    I was responding to the comment in his original post: "No, I don't have ADSB capability now. Yes, I will be adding it as soon as possible."
     
  12. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2009
    Messages:
    42,662
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    DenverPilot
    Even if he adds it, it's not going to stop the need to look outside and maneuver for other aircraft. Did you go look at the reg and think about it?

    It clearly shows not only the places where ADS-B will be required, but that there will still be plenty of aircraft exempt from using it in many of those places.
     
  13. Tarheelpilot

    Tarheelpilot Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2010
    Messages:
    1,630
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Tarheelpilot
    This thread amuses me.
     
    Zeldman likes this.
  14. mkosmo

    mkosmo Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2012
    Messages:
    2,176
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    mkosmo
    Hopefully we'll see more ADS-R to fill some of the gaps, but that will still lead to feelings of false safety since we won't know where areas of no radar coverage (or shadows) exist.