earl72
Pre-Flight
a good friend of mine is trying to get his licence but the rental fees are killing him is it leagel to let him use my plane if he only pays for fuel and insurance
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a friend wants to borrow my plane
- Thread starter earl72
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Sure.
The thing I would check is whether your insurance protects YOU while he's flying.
Second is whether your insurance protects HIM while he's flying.
As far as the FAA is concerned, there's nothing magic about someone borrowing your plane and chipping in for expenses. Only issue occurs if you were flying or if flight instruction was being offered as well.
The thing I would check is whether your insurance protects YOU while he's flying.
Second is whether your insurance protects HIM while he's flying.
As far as the FAA is concerned, there's nothing magic about someone borrowing your plane and chipping in for expenses. Only issue occurs if you were flying or if flight instruction was being offered as well.
steingar
Taxi to Parking
You are a nice man.
earl72
Pre-Flight
i checked with my insurance and i can add him to my policy to cover both of us
poadeleted20
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You should ask further whether you will both be "named insureds" or whether you will remain the sole insured party while your pal is only a "named pilot." If the former, realize that your policy value to you will be diluted in the process, effectively reducing the liability coverage you have by as much as half or more. If the latter, realize that your pal will for sure be "naked" when it to claims by third parties (say, the person into whose car he taxies), and unless there's a "waiver of subrogation" clause in your policy, your insurer could subrogate against your pal for anything they pay out to you or any third parties for an accident while he's flying the plane. Finally, if your pal is taking training in that plane, there's also the issue of the instructor being acceptable to the insurer for that purpose.
That said, the FAA won't care how much you charge your pal for the unconditional use of the plane -- as little or as much as you want.
Dave Siciliano
Final Approach
Does this good friend borrow other things from you? Does he lend you things of equal value? You certainly can do this, I'd be very selective in who I lend my plane to. As a matter of fact, it's only been my CFI who is signed off, current and insured in my plane for my benefit (to ferry the plane when I couldn't).
Best,
Dave
Best,
Dave
earl72
Pre-Flight
jesse
Touchdown! Greaser!
Yes it is perfectly legal...and if an instructor is needed -- I'm available. The only real issue is insurance and Ron touches on that nicely above.a good friend of mine is trying to get his licence but the rental fees are killing him is it leagel to let him use my plane if he only pays for fuel and insurance
earl72
Pre-Flight
i told him about you Jesse but I think he has an instructor already
Challenged
Pattern Altitude
I'm doing the same thing for a friend/co-worker, and I look at it as doing my part to further the cause of general aviation. He has about 13 hours so far, and everything has been fine (knock on wood). There's not a lot of people I would make this deal with, however, but he is a responsible guy and I know he treats the plane well.
Tom-D
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Tom-D
It is legal for you to do this, but remember the student pilot never meets the open pilot warrantee of the insurance policy.a good friend of mine is trying to get his licence but the rental fees are killing him is it leagel to let him use my plane if he only pays for fuel and insurance
It should be agreed by you and him that he pays the deductible of your insurance policy, and will get a renters policy to cover himself just in case.
If and or when the worst happens, settle the money and talk about some thing else.
my personal opinion I do not borrow any aircraft I can't or wouldn't buy.
a good friend of mine is trying to get his licence but the rental fees are killing him is it leagel to let him use my plane if he only pays for fuel and insurance
You can charge him whatever you please including enough to make a profit, so long as you aren't in the plane.
I got my license in a friends brand new Hawk XP 34 years ago. Helped him cover some of his ownership costs, kept the plane active and provided me an awesome machine in which to learn. Plus it was ALWAYS available and ready to fly when I wanted to fly, which expedited me getting my license. We were both happy and flew alot together after getting our licenses. We later became partners with two other guys in a 182.
Another friend loaned me his 150 so I could teach my son to fly this summer. We did add him as a named insured on his policy, which was only $30, much less than I expected. He wouldn't let me pay him for it, but I did pay for some maintenance items on it during the course of the training. He was happy to help launch a new pilot. I was happy I could get my son through his PPL in five weeks and less than 50 hrs.!
Another friend loaned me his 150 so I could teach my son to fly this summer. We did add him as a named insured on his policy, which was only $30, much less than I expected. He wouldn't let me pay him for it, but I did pay for some maintenance items on it during the course of the training. He was happy to help launch a new pilot. I was happy I could get my son through his PPL in five weeks and less than 50 hrs.!
I am glad to hear that in this cynical lawyer infested world, there is still room for handshake deals between responsible adults.
Agreed. He got a new vac pump, then a used replacement AI after the original gave up the ghost. Both cheap investments for 50 hrs. of flying!
thomascannon
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thomascannon
a good friend of mine is trying to get his licence but the rental fees are killing him is it leagel to let him use my plane if he only pays for fuel and insurance
As he won't be PIC (aside from solo) I'd think getting his CFI on the insurance plan would be more important... at least to the CFI, anyway.
Or, that's how I'd see it, but don't have any practical experience with this scenario.
You get them on as Named Pilots and they get their own "Non Owners" policy to cover themselves. If you have them as named insureds it kinda dilutes your coverage.
denverpilot
Tied Down
By the time you add up what you're losing on engine time, how much your insurance will go up to add a student pilot, and their cost of adding non-owned coverage for themselves... You'll probably find the rental is the same price minus your loss on the engine time.
If you charge him prorated engine and maintenance costs, it'll be within a few bucks.
You're a good friend, subsidizing your friend's flying by that amount that you'll be losing.
If you charge him prorated engine and maintenance costs, it'll be within a few bucks.
You're a good friend, subsidizing your friend's flying by that amount that you'll be losing.
woodstock
Final Approach
There is always room for handshake deals. Always. As long as nothing goes wrong, no sweat.
Skylane81E
Final Approach
By the time you add up what you're losing on engine time, how much your insurance will go up to add a student pilot, and their cost of adding non-owned coverage for themselves... You'll probably find the rental is the same price minus your loss on the engine time.
If you charge him prorated engine and maintenance costs, it'll be within a few bucks.
You're a good friend, subsidizing your friend's flying by that amount that you'll be losing.
In all fairness if the plane is under used the extra flight time may extend the life of the engine and reduce maintenance costs.
I looked into a similar deal with a friend on my airplane, we just had added the aditonal requirement that he would make himself available to help me spin wrenches when ever needed.
However the cost of adding a student pilot to my 182's insurance killed it.
MadseasoN
Line Up and Wait
Will the 100 HR inspection rule apply since the plane will be used for instruction?
dell30rb
Final Approach
Have your friend pay the difference.
I would have no problem lending a plane to a responsible friend.
I have some relatives and their friends who let me use some very, very nice boats from time to time. They know me, know I'm responsible and know that I have experience, skill and local knowledge (most of em come to me for advice
) to run safely. For them its nice because their boat gets exercised and I give it a good cleaning when i'm done. If you can say the same thing about your friend, let him have at it. Make sure the insurance gets taken care of and that he pays for his share. Charge him an inexpensive hourly rate to help offset your costs if he is putting some real hours on it. And make sure he has a good CFI so that he gets the training he needs to operate your bird safely.
Tom-D
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Tom-D
NO, not unless the instructor provides the aircraft.
jesse
Touchdown! Greaser!
No. Not unless the instructor is being made available *with* the aircraft. If you get the aircraft then find your own instructor whom is not associated with it no 100 hr is required.
Skylane81E
Final Approach
See that was the thing, by the time he payed the difference, and bought the extra fuel he could have rented a DA20. With cost being = we both agreed that the Diamond was a better choice for him.
dell30rb
Final Approach
makes sense to me... as a trainer with a wooden prop i'm guessing it was much less to insure the DA 20 against a student pilot
Skylane81E
Final Approach
Don't know, we insure it as a package with all the other school planes.
However it does burn a lot less gas and is cheaper to mantain (than a 182 operated for training, I pay less but I'm also not a fair example)
However it does burn a lot less gas and is cheaper to mantain (than a 182 operated for training, I pay less but I'm also not a fair example)
poadeleted20
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...or the aircraft owner provides the instructor.