A couple a/c log questions

[Richard]

Q: what indications would it give you if you noticed major work in the a/c log dated almost 10 months before the date of the Form 337 and the same A&P is currently maintaining your a/c?

Q: not yet having found the log entry for new fabric covering on wings and control surfaces, how could I determine what type fabric was used? Covering was done by other who is unknown as of yet.

Q: on control surfaces, how much of the pinked seam tape has to unbond before it becomes a serious airworthiness issue? Top of elevator, approx. 2 inches unbonded in approx. 20 inches.

 

[Tom-D]

Q: what indications would it give you if you noticed major work in the a/c log dated almost 10 months before the date of the Form 337 and the same A&P is currently maintaining your a/c?

A.I would think the A&P needs a lesson from FSDO about record keeping,
He has 2 days after the completion of the work to file the 337. BUT how long did the job take? It's still shakey

Q: not yet having found the log entry for new fabric covering on wings and control surfaces, how could I determine what type fabric was used? Covering was done by other who is unknown as of yet.

A. Look inside at the back of the covers, there should be a ink stamp saying "Ceconite 101 or 102" or a statement of grade "A"(cotton)

Also the color of the base primer will tell you what system you may have, BUT it will really only tell you what primer they used.

Remember, every cover system is a complete system. You can't mix the Randolph, with Poly Fiber, or Air-Tech and be legal. simply because you must follow the manufacturers installation manual to the letter to be legal, and none of the manuals say use the other guys product.

Imron,, none of the manufacturers tell us we can use it, simply because it has no plastisizers to make it flexable. If you see "IMRON" on fabric think 4-6 years it will start cracking.

See FAR 43, A it tells us that the recovering is a major repair, If you have no 337, or return to service, you have a unairworthy aircraft.

Q: on control surfaces, how much of the pinked seam tape has to unbond before it becomes a serious airworthiness issue? Top of elevator, approx. 2 inches unbonded in approx. 20 inches.

A. I gather that the covering was completed 10 months ago??

If So, and you have separation occuring now, I would suspect the whole job.

 

[Richard]

No, the recovering was done some years ago; when exactly is my quest. The 10 months is for changing from Goodyear to Cleveland brakes, and that happened in '99.

I can ask those who know the a/c but when I see things like the 337 that long after the work was done I think sloppy, sloppy, sloppy and I need to verify with my own eyes.

 

[Tom-D]

No, the recovering was done some years ago; when exactly is my quest. The 10 months is for changing from Goodyear to Cleveland brakes, and that happened in '99.

That should have a 337 installing the STC. but 10 months late, I would believe the Annual caught it missing.

As for the old covers having pinked edge tapes coming loose, it is a symptom of the glue seam failing. Run a brush full of fabric cement under the loose tape, should hold for a while.

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

Some guys are fantastic at wrench turning but absolutely pitiful at paperwork. It could be a mechanically fine airplane, just look it over well - although you will want to find out what it takes to bring the logs in compliance (the standard for this being mainly the IA who signs your annuals). I bet there isn't one single GA logbook out there that is 100% complete.

 

[Tom-D]

Some guys are fantastic at wrench turning but absolutely pitiful at paperwork. It could be a mechanically fine airplane, just look it over well - although you will want to find out what it takes to bring the logs in compliance (the standard for this being mainly the IA who signs your annuals). I bet there isn't one single GA logbook out there that is 100% complete.

I agree 100%, each aircraft is a study in it's self. the logs can be made right no matter how messed up they are.

Here is a Question, would you like the A&P-IA at annual to give you all discrpancies found in the logs? even 30 years ago?

If I sign off an annual, do I except all those mistakes as airworthy?

 

[Richard]

Here is a Question, would you like the A&P-IA at annual to give you all discrpancies found in the logs? even 30 years ago?

If I sign off an annual, do I except all those mistakes as airworthy?

I had thought of that before, getting all the discrepancies in one big heap, and probably right before you really needed the plane back. But it would sure make me feel easy knowing the books are straight. I'm like that...

I think if you sign off you are saying this a/c is airworthy, so yeah, you are accepting those mistakes.

Here's a a question: does the discrepancy fade with the passage of time? EX: no 337 for major alteration done last month. Ten years from now and no work since the original alteration is it gonna matter or did it just fade away?

 

[Richard]

Update

I have found the information for the recovering. It is a work report dated March, 1990 and is loose between the pages. No 337 because the work was completed in Canada by a Canadian shop--what problem there now that the a/c is back on the FAA reg?

Anyway, the boilerplate wording of "...completed in accordance with STITTS STC#SA 1008 WE" is listed on the work report but not on the bound pages of the log.

REF: 43.9(a) Is a work report which is held loose in the aircraft log but not attached to the log part acceptable as a maintenance record? (Simple fix is to staple it to the log, yes?)

I think I need to reread CFR Part 43. Questions like, Does the compass need to be swung again if the correction card generated when the compass was swung 15 years ago was never installed in the a/c? and, What is the proper method for determining a wooden prop is airworthy? are running through my head.

I'm currently making a list of the discrepancies I see between the inspection requirements, the paperwork, the logs, and the actual condition the a/c is in.

It's actually very interesting and fun because it's like reading a good history book. However, I bought it to fly it, not look at it.

 

[Tom-D]

Re: Update

I have found the information for the recovering. It is a work report dated March, 1990 and is loose between the pages. No 337 because the work was completed in Canada by a Canadian shop--what problem there now that the a/c is back on the FAA reg?

Anyway, the boilerplate wording of "...completed in accordance with STITTS STC#SA 1008 WE" is listed on the work report but not on the bound pages of the log.

REF: 43.9(a) Is a work report which is held loose in the aircraft log but not attached to the log part acceptable as a maintenance record? (Simple fix is to staple it to the log, yes?)

I think I need to reread CFR Part 43. Questions like, Does the compass need to be swung again if the correction card generated when the compass was swung 15 years ago was never installed in the a/c? and, What is the proper method for determining a wooden prop is airworthy? are running through my head.

I'm currently making a list of the discrepancies I see between the inspection requirements, the paperwork, the logs, and the actual condition the a/c is in.

It's actually very interesting and fun because it's like reading a good history book. However, I bought it to fly it, not look at it.

You said
". No 337 because the work was completed in Canada by a Canadian shop--what problem there now that the a/c is back on the FAA reg?

Anyway, the boilerplate wording of "...completed in accordance with STITTS STC#SA 1008 WE" is listed on the work report but not on the bound pages of the log."
end quote

Here is the trick, It was done before re-import, at the importation the aircraft was issued a NEW airworthiness certificate with the cover system installed, you are good to go, no paper required.

quote
" What is the proper method for determining a wooden prop is airworthy?"
end quote

The Manufacturers IRCs or the AC43,13-2b, depandant upon who's prop.

 

[Richard]

I agree 100%, each aircraft is a study in it's self. the logs can be made right no matter how messed up they are.

Here is a Question, would you like the A&P-IA at annual to give you all discrpancies found in the logs? even 30 years ago?

If I sign off an annual, do I except all those mistakes as airworthy?

Tom, what are the answers you were looking for?

 

[Tom-D]

Tom, what are the answers you were looking for?

If some old IA asked me those questions, I would say yes, and yes. I would like the option to deside if we need to take action.

There are aircraft flying today, that have been unairworthy for 30 years or longer.

I found a J-3 cub that had fish mouth weld joints in each fuselage longeron indicating that the whole rear fuselage was replaced at one time or another, never a single entry in the logs.

You as an owner, what would you have me do?

Keep in mind, that when I sign off an annual, I am excepting all previous repairs as airworthy, all STCs were applied properly, and the aircraft is IAW it's type certificate or it properly altered condition.

Any IA that will sign off with out telling you what mistakes he found in your logs, isn't doing you much of a favor.

 

[Richard]

If some old IA asked me those questions, I would say yes, and yes. I would like the option to deside if we need to take action.

There are aircraft flying today, that have been unairworthy for 30 years or longer.

I found a J-3 cub that had fish mouth weld joints in each fuselage longeron indicating that the whole rear fuselage was replaced at one time or another, never a single entry in the logs.

You as an owner, what would you have me do?

Keep in mind, that when I sign off an annual, I am excepting all previous repairs as airworthy, all STCs were applied properly, and the aircraft is IAW it's type certificate or it properly altered condition.

Any IA that will sign off with out telling you what mistakes he found in your logs, isn't doing you much of a favor.

Hoo yaa! Absolutely agree! I cannot express how much I like that kind of talk. So when you can you come down, my annual is coming due soon and I sure would like to get a handle on what I've been finding.