A Candid Question About Flying

Great thread.

I just went flying in one of the planes I maintain last week, for the first time in a long while, as a passenger. It was very gusty and rainy leaving home base. The first few bumps caught me off guard and I was tightening my butt pretty good! I find that when I fly more, I am more accustomed to the bumps.

At our destination, it was something like 25G40 and thundershowers, 90 degrees to the runway and the approach had the most crab I think I have ever experienced - very cool to see. The landing was deliberately firm with immediate reverse, perfect as far as I was concerned. I told the pilots they did a really good job and they said it was the most challenging landing they have had in a while.

My .02. Fly more! :)
 
SrARAV06 said:
If even the thought of flying solo frightens you, you should take up other hobbies. There are already too many pilots sharing the airspace who can, for instance, afford more airplane than they can handle, even when they don't experience fear of flying.
The hills are littered with the results.
If you need a wake-up call, buy some dual with a rotary wing IP.
I never worried about my abilities, only was apprehensive about the pilots I shared the sky with.
On the other hand, I knew a young man who threw up when he first got rides in airplanes, but went on to become an airline pilot. Moving on from fright to boredom, I suppose.
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The most incomprehensible accidents I've heard of involved pilots who weren't scared enough.
 
Flying is the awesome part.
It's only the crashing that scares me. (haha never heard that one on here) :rolleyes:

Also the shrinking bank account is terrifying.

But honestly, I can relate somewhat.
My first flight ever in a small plane was my first intro lesson. It was a bit windy, and I had no idea how much a small plane moved about. Scared me good when we rolled a little sideways at lift off.
About 5 minutes later, I took the controls, and he said turn to heading 060.
Now if it's possible to make a .00003 degree turn and hold it, I did. For some reason I felt like the plane was going to slide us sideways right out of the air to our fiery death.
2 lessons later, my CFI is like "do you always have to turn 60 degrees on final"?
Now (at 30 hrs) I'm soloing into the countryside. No real fear to speak of.... I'm doing stalls, and steep turns alone. However I am always looking for a place to put her down if there's a problem.
So hang in there and give it time. We're all different. We all have had, and will have different histories and experiences that will affect us about different things.
Sounds like the perfect setup with the little lady love.
 
PC4CAB said:
We did, she owns a small Grumman Trainer, and we flew a few times in that, before she really started to instruct me. Recently, we have been flying a 172 for instruction.
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so we're you just as nervous / apprehensive on those flights?
 
redhandle said:
Has he actually tried flying in a small plane? The fear of commercial flying can be a different thing that won't necessarily exist in a small plane. Commercial flying fears for me is (severe) claustrophobia, fear of the unknown, fear of not being in control. That doesn't exist on a small plane.

I'm not saying there isn't real small plane fears, there obviously are - just that the one doesn't necessarily imply the other.
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Yup. He has to go commercial for business. I had my flight instructor take him up. That ended after once around the pattern. Two years later, he approaches me, wants to try again. So, knowing how it went last time, I request closed traffic, and sure enough... turning cross wind, he's like "I'm done".

He hates it. This isn't someone faking discomfort to get out of flying... he wants to fly so bad it's just... sad. Pretty sure, though, any medicines that would allow him to go up would immediately disqualify him.
 
PC4CAB said:
Folks,

I apologize if this is either the wrong forum, or comes across as odd to many of you seasoned aviators, but I wanted to share some honest feelings and emotions, and see if perhaps I’m either the only one, or not that has felt this way.

So, a quick introduction…. For as long as I remember, I have loved airplanes. As a kid, I would spend endless days and nights watching the planes make their way to Philly International Airport. My bedroom was decorated with every manner of aviation related pictures, posters, etc. I used to think that I thought like a pilot, always trying to weigh options and have a plan for everything I did. Heck, I even dressed how I thought a pilot would, with a leather bomber jacket and the occasional Raybans. It would seem that I’ve been in love with airplanes for almost the 45 years I’ve been alive, and want to be a pilot as much as I want that next promotion, big deal, or even that next grasp of air. I’ve got it bad…

But, that love hides a strange fear – I’m actually prone to being scared to fly. I have the good fortune of having met a wonderful woman, who among having many of the wonderful traits any man would want, happens to be an airline pilot and CFI/CFII. We fell in love, and she has just started to train me, and while I look forward to our lessons together, I find myself nervous at times. Some days, the fear is marginal, other times it’s much worse. Every bump, odd sound , or radio call seems to frighten me at times. I’m overwhelmed by all the things I need to know, from working the radio, to simply keeping the plane straight and level. I keep thinking, what if something serious happens, and we have to make a sharp, emergency turn, or we encounter wake turbulence, and the plane rolls hard to the right or left. I’m afraid I would scream and grab my seat. I’ve shared my fears with her, and she just smiles and says in time I will get use to it, and not be so overwhelmed and scared. Oddly, once we land, I miss it all, yet while in the air, I’m a bit of a nervous wreck.

I think of a solo flight, and then a solo cross country, and it literally gives me a weird feeling in my stomach. Both scared and excited at the same time, but more scared, to be candid. The idea of practicing stalls slightly terrifies me, and if the plane entered a spin, I know panic would ensue. Yet there are moments I am in love with flying, and hate myself for being so scared. I can’t stand the fact that some days I’m too afraid to learn, as I desperately want to learn, and someday get my private and maybe instrument.

Is this normal? Did any of you feel this way at first? Did training and flying eventually resolve the conflict and most of the fear? I know I want to learn, but feel like I should be more relaxed and less scared. I think my feelings make me a bad potential pilot, but I don’t know if how I feel is normal, or semi normal.

I’m grateful for any insight.
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I was thinking about your original wonderfully articulate post.

With some of my clients I am scared right along with them particularly just before I say "my aircraft!"

When I watch their first solo I probably experience more trepidation than they do.

When I send them on their first solo cross county I think of all the things that could go wrong and what I might have left out of their training.

I suspect a certain amount of fear in aviation is healthy.
 
You need to do it and find out for yourself.
Happy chat and advice don't make the propeller spin.
 
PC4CAB said:
Folks,

I apologize if this is either the wrong forum, or comes across as odd to many of you seasoned aviators, but I wanted to share some honest feelings and emotions, and see if perhaps I’m either the only one, or not that has felt this way.

So, a quick introduction…. For as long as I remember, I have loved airplanes. As a kid, I would spend endless days and nights watching the planes make their way to Philly International Airport. My bedroom was decorated with every manner of aviation related pictures, posters, etc. I used to think that I thought like a pilot, always trying to weigh options and have a plan for everything I did. Heck, I even dressed how I thought a pilot would, with a leather bomber jacket and the occasional Raybans. It would seem that I’ve been in love with airplanes for almost the 45 years I’ve been alive, and want to be a pilot as much as I want that next promotion, big deal, or even that next grasp of air. I’ve got it bad…

But, that love hides a strange fear – I’m actually prone to being scared to fly. I have the good fortune of having met a wonderful woman, who among having many of the wonderful traits any man would want, happens to be an airline pilot and CFI/CFII. We fell in love, and she has just started to train me, and while I look forward to our lessons together, I find myself nervous at times. Some days, the fear is marginal, other times it’s much worse. Every bump, odd sound , or radio call seems to frighten me at times. I’m overwhelmed by all the things I need to know, from working the radio, to simply keeping the plane straight and level. I keep thinking, what if something serious happens, and we have to make a sharp, emergency turn, or we encounter wake turbulence, and the plane rolls hard to the right or left. I’m afraid I would scream and grab my seat. I’ve shared my fears with her, and she just smiles and says in time I will get use to it, and not be so overwhelmed and scared. Oddly, once we land, I miss it all, yet while in the air, I’m a bit of a nervous wreck.

I think of a solo flight, and then a solo cross country, and it literally gives me a weird feeling in my stomach. Both scared and excited at the same time, but more scared, to be candid. The idea of practicing stalls slightly terrifies me, and if the plane entered a spin, I know panic would ensue. Yet there are moments I am in love with flying, and hate myself for being so scared. I can’t stand the fact that some days I’m too afraid to learn, as I desperately want to learn, and someday get my private and maybe instrument.

Is this normal? Did any of you feel this way at first? Did training and flying eventually resolve the conflict and most of the fear? I know I want to learn, but feel like I should be more relaxed and less scared. I think my feelings make me a bad potential pilot, but I don’t know if how I feel is normal, or semi normal.

I’m grateful for any insight.
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Not strange at all.
If you want to break that, find a good aerobatic instructor and go tear it up!
For 45 years you have been used to "flying" straight and level. This new dimention can be a little unnerving.
When I got back into GA about 5 years ago, I was really nervous in the turbulence. By the way, I'm a long-time major airline pilot.
It took some time and some aerobatic flights to feel totally comfortable again in a small airplane.
In addition to breaking that fear, IT'S INSANELY FUN!

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
 
I dreamed of flying growing up, and didn't experience any fear until the day of my first solo. It was odd... I worked so hard and was looking forward to it and then the day of the solo came and I found myself scared. It didn't stop me from going flying, but I was nervous before many of my solo flights and especially the solo cross countries. Once I got my license any irrational fear went away, however I find it comes back now if I don't fly enough. I also read a ton about accidents and have a read a lot of engineering books on planes. Most accidents are caused by human factors, not wings falling off, and planes are built by very smart people to very high standards

I definitely do see a correlation in how often I fly though and how nervous I am before hand.. here is a crude curve I made in excel to illustrate. I suppose on a long enough time scale the fear factor would plateau out. But at least in the short picture if I fly every day or every other day I have near zero fear.. but anything over about 3 weeks and the apprehension definitely starts getting greater and greater
upload_2017-7-25_12-24-35.png


BrianNC said:
I have acrophobia myself, but getting in a small plane and flying doesn't bother me other than normal apprehension. No fear of heights though in a plane.
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Same here.. I *HATE* heights, but flying has never bothered me even in the least.. this usually perplexes people "why are you afraid of heights, aren't you a pilot?" .. maybe to the lay person they are equal, but when I'm flying a plane it's much different from standing on the edge of a tall building..
 
Tantalum said:
I dreamed of flying growing up, and didn't experience any fear until the day of my first solo. It was odd... I worked so hard and was looking forward to it and then the day of the solo came and I found myself scared. It didn't stop me from going flying, but I was nervous before many of my solo flights and especially the solo cross countries. Once I got my license any irrational fear went away, however I find it comes back now if I don't fly enough. I also read a ton about accidents and have a read a lot of engineering books on planes. Most accidents are caused by human factors, not wings falling off, and planes are built by very smart people to very high standards

I definitely do see a correlation in how often I fly though and how nervous I am before hand.. here is a crude curve I made in excel to illustrate. I suppose on a long enough time scale the fear factor would plateau out. But at least in the short picture if I fly every day or every other day I have near zero fear.. but anything over about 3 weeks and the apprehension definitely starts getting greater and greater
View attachment 55118



Same here.. I *HATE* heights, but flying has never bothered me even in the least.. this usually perplexes people "why are you afraid of heights, aren't you a pilot?" .. maybe to the lay person they are equal, but when I'm flying a plane it's much different from standing on the edge of a tall building..
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It's interesting that the stats are about 60% of pilots are acrophobic to some extent. That number increases to 90% for helicopter pilots.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
 
Tantalum said:
I dreamed of flying growing up, and didn't experience any fear until the day of my first solo. It was odd... I worked so hard and was looking forward to it and then the day of the solo came and I found myself scared. It didn't stop me from going flying, but I was nervous before many of my solo flights and especially the solo cross countries. Once I got my license any irrational fear went away, however I find it comes back now if I don't fly enough. I also read a ton about accidents and have a read a lot of engineering books on planes. Most accidents are caused by human factors, not wings falling off, and planes are built by very smart people to very high standards

I definitely do see a correlation in how often I fly though and how nervous I am before hand.. here is a crude curve I made in excel to illustrate. I suppose on a long enough time scale the fear factor would plateau out. But at least in the short picture if I fly every day or every other day I have near zero fear.. but anything over about 3 weeks and the apprehension definitely starts getting greater and greater
View attachment 55118



Same here.. I *HATE* heights, but flying has never bothered me even in the least.. this usually perplexes people "why are you afraid of heights, aren't you a pilot?" .. maybe to the lay person they are equal, but when I'm flying a plane it's much different from standing on the edge of a tall building..
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Love the chart! Thats something I would do too!
 
Fly with a CFI you aren't sleeping with. That way you can talk **** about your instructor without having to sleep on the couch.

But really, you may not be as communicative of your apprehensions with her, and she might be exaggerating them with you. Best to get another view and see where that takes you.
 
I think what people are describing here isn't a fear of heights, its a fear of edges. I work in a control tower 120' up every day and have for a lot of years with no ill effects. However, I still get the heebiegeebies standing on the catwalk looking down at the parking lot.

I wish there was a simulator that would simulate how much turbulence or similar forces that would come close to tearing a wing off for each aircraft we fly. If we could actually feel what that would be like, we'd be more assured that those bumps and jolts we fly through occasionally are a lot less than what it actually takes to be in danger of harming the aircraft.
 
Just a thought: Having a close relative/spouse/friend teaching you something presents unique challenges and expectations (For example, have you ever watched someone (close) teaching another to down-hill ski? I have, and it can be laughably difficult. So, I humbly suggest that you consider working with an "independent" CFI until you begin to feel the requisite "command authority" at the center of your being. Fly with your darling wife for fun, but get the tarining from a CFI who can push you (and lets you push back!).

Good luck and be blessed.
 
redhandle said:
Has he actually tried flying in a small plane? The fear of commercial flying can be a different thing that won't necessarily exist in a small plane. Commercial flying fears for me is (severe) claustrophobia, fear of the unknown, fear of not being in control. That doesn't exist on a small plane.
I'm not saying there isn't real small plane fears, there obviously are - just that the one doesn't necessarily imply the other.
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A co-worker flies with us every week on a chartered 737, hit a few little bumps and he is grabbing for an arm rest. Took him up in a 172 a couple of months back, within about 20 minutes he was doing just fine and even took the controls for a little bit. Fear of flying commercially and in a small plane can be very different.

96gs917 said:
I think a little fear keeps you on your toes. I am always on high alert when I fly.
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Sure does.

Skyrys62 said:
Flying is the awesome part.
It's only the crashing that scares me. (haha never heard that one on here) :rolleyes:

Also the shrinking bank account is terrifying.
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The shrinking bank account surely scares the hell out of a lot of us...and I'll stop calling you shirley.

There is definitely a lot of good advice here, the fear is natural to an extent and in time you will likely get over it. As many have said, some fear, or maybe worded better appreciation or respect for what could happen, is important. Having zero fear is not exactly a good thing, then again neither is the feeling of "Jesus take the yoke" at the first sign of adversity (I stole that from someone on here a while ago, can't remember who to credit). Like others have said, if I go too long without flying, I will admit some slight uneasiness for a few minutes until I get back into the rhythm. My 2 cents, stick with it, don't let anyone discourage you, and keep flying!
 
Yeah, we need enough fear to keep us from getting careless, but not so much that it prevents us from doing what needs to be done.
 
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Timbeck2 said:
I think what people are describing here isn't a fear of heights, its a fear of edges. I work in a control tower 120' up every day and have for a lot of years with no ill effects. However, I still get the heebiegeebies standing on the catwalk looking down at the parking lot.

I wish there was a simulator that would simulate how much turbulence or similar forces that would come close to tearing a wing off for each aircraft we fly. If we could actually feel what that would be like, we'd be more assured that those bumps and jolts we fly through occasionally are a lot less than what it actually takes to be in danger of harming the aircraft.
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Could it be a fear of falling? I had a head shink for a student, and I mentioned to him that when I am in a tall building I feel something pulling me towards the window, and it feels I am going to fall out. He told me I just have a fear of falling. And because I am in control of the airplane is why I don't feel it in the plane.

He also mentioned that most people that think they have a fear of heights really have a fear of falling. Very interesting person to talk to.
 
arnoha said:
This sounds pretty normal. I don't hear fear...I hear you reflecting apprehension, which leads to anxiety. Any time we do something that is naturally dangerous, this is supposed to kick in. As you get more experience in the aspects of flying, it will fade. It will show up again when you do something that is new to you.

Apprehension and anxiety are normal and recoverable. You performance goes down when those kick in, but they also help keep you out of places you shouldn't be. It's just a matter of having enough judgement to recognize when you'll face these emotions, realize they'll affect your performance, and leave yourself enough reserve to still deal with the situation. For now, those situations include almost all aspects of flying, including the totally normal ones. Later, it will only be the unusual situations that allow the anxiety to creep up.

Panic is also normal, but generally unrecoverable. So, that's the bar I set for myself: What are the odds I will panic? Panic results in untenable performance. I cannot afford to panic in a plane. That's the plan: match my risk tolerance to my panic likelihood. If I have plenty of margin between the two, and all else also lines up, it's a go. If there isn't much margin or none at all, that flight is not happening.
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That's probably the best "equation" way to sum it up that I've heard. Thanks. I posted something similar to the OP a while back- and while maybe a touch less severe than OP- all of this is valuable to me as well. So- thanks!
 
Your post really resonates with me as I felt the same way for a while. Tantalum's post is great and I find it to be very true. The longer I wait in between flights the more nervous I get before the flight. With that being said, as soon as I take off that feeling goes away.

Aerobatic training really transformed my flying in a lot of ways. I wrote about my experience here and you might find it useful:
https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/com...ttitude-aerobatic-training-experience.102339/

I still get nervous about things sometimes. Unfortunately there is no substitute for experience.
 
Tantalum said:
Same here.. I *HATE* heights, but flying has never bothered me even in the least.. this usually perplexes people "why are you afraid of heights, aren't you a pilot?" .. maybe to the lay person they are equal, but when I'm flying a plane it's much different from standing on the edge of a tall building..
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I am quite uneasy with heights, but when there's work to do or airplanes to fly, it doesn't bother me... I climb radio towers (with appropriate safety gear and training) and fly airplanes and what-not... the tower climbing usually ends up a few nights later waking up from a falling dream, which is "not ideal" as a way to wake up, but stuff to do... things to get done...

I couldn't be a steel worker though, walking around on beams, I don't think. That would hit the "nope" level for me.
 
denverpilot said:
I climb radio towers
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Yeah no thanks. I do not have the intestinal fortitude for that. Have seen some videos on YouTube of linemen, radio tower guys, and windmill repair techs. Not for me!
 
Tantalum said:
Same here.. I *HATE* heights, but flying has never bothered me even in the least.. this usually perplexes people
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Interesting...my gf is terrified of heights, but she swears she will be fine flying with me.
I hope that is the case.
 
Zeldman said:
Could it be a fear of falling? I had a head shink for a student, and I mentioned to him that when I am in a tall building I feel something pulling me towards the window, and it feels I am going to fall out. He told me I just have a fear of falling. And because I am in control of the airplane is why I don't feel it in the plane.

He also mentioned that most people that think they have a fear of heights really have a fear of falling. Very interesting person to talk to.
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I know I sometimes have some kind of fear of falling... and it sucks sometimes. It's as if you don't trust your own balance when you could do the same thing if it was 1' off of the ground instead of higher.
 
I'm glad to know I'm not the only one afraid of heights. My family went on the "Soarin'" ride at Disney's Epcot. I almost FREAKED! Put my keester in a Single Engine Piston plane, and I'm fine.

Flying commercial is the WORST! I used to work on airliners (Boeing, Airbus, and MacDouglas), and whenever I fly commercial I start running through all the systems failures that could kill me. These are planes maintained by professional mechanics with the excellent tools and training, flown by cats with hundreds (maybe thousands) of hours. Put me back in the piston single flown by a guy with 200ish hours, and maintained by myself and my weird friend "Eddie", and I'm happy as can be.

The human mind is a very strange thing...
 
Your experience is similar to mine. I was scared up to, and after, I got my pilots license.

During the 18 months of my flight training seven people I knew died in 5 separate accidents at, or near, my home field. It impressed on me that I could actually die doing this. I understood early that I needed to learn everything possible I could about flying and develop rigid personal standards to minimize my risk.

For me, a big part of learning to fly was learning to deal with the fear and anxiety. Part of learning to deal with fear comes from your flight instructor as you learn to deal with various emergency scenarios. Part of it comes from just spending more time in the plane and getting comfortable with your skills.

And part of it comes from dealing with real world "moments of sheer terror".

Shortly after getting my license I was involved in two incidents (of my own doing) in which there was a very real chance I would die. In both cases, I reacted as I had been trained to do and got myself out of the predicaments. Until the real-world terror presented itself I could not be sure how I would react. Would I freeze up? Would I forget my training and end up doing something that would make the situation worse?

Besides scaring the living crap out of me, these experiences also gave me confidence in myself. I began to learn that I could function as a pilot in command, even when I was terrified. I could suppress the fear and do what I needed to do.

Thirty years later....

Last August I completed the construction of a homebuilt aircraft (a Zenith CH 601 XL). Facing the fear of flight testing an aircraft you built yourself presents a unique level of fear and anxiety. It scared the crap out me for the first few flights! As my time in the plane grew my fear lessened but will never completely disappear.

I am still in the same "boat" as when I started in some ways. Flying does scare me. However, I have learned how to deal with fear in a constructive way. I try to break it down into things I really need to worry about - and things I don't, and any given moment. For example if I'm cruising along and I'm in gliding distance of an airport or suitable off-field landing spot, then I don't need to "worry" about an engine failure.

I know learning to deal with fear during flying has helped me in other ways. A few years ago I was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer. Being told your likely going to die shortly has got to be one of the scariest things you can face in life.

I honestly think my flying experience (learning to deal with fear) helped me tremendously during this terrifying experience. "Suppress the fear and focus on what you need to do," pretty much got me through it.

BTW - did I mention how much I LOVE flying? The beauty is unlike anything you can experience any other way! Flying still amazes me and excites me.

Flying is my passion. My career does not define me - but flying does.

Who am I? I am a pilot who loves everything aviation.

I feel incredibly fortunate to say, "I am a pilot".

Keep flying and you will learn to deal with the fear over time. The rewards are more than worth it.
 
To the OP, I just solo-ed couple of days back. This coming from someone who was pretty terrified of flying with a CFI onboard, let alone fly on my own. Give more time, that's what I did. It's worth it. Flying the plane alone, albeit for 3 landings is the best thing I have ever done in my life and gives a huge moral boost and the sense of freedom is just awesome. U won't have time to be scared, ur training would kick in and everything else would go away. Though I shud tell u, I started learning rapidly once I stopped being afraid in the little spam can, so it might take some time to learn. When I was scared, I would come home and ask myself, what exactly am I scared off? First it was banking the aircraft, so next time I went up i would do 45 or 60 degree bank, next was engine failure, so did a crap load of simulated engine out, next was turbulence, so flew in most turbulent conditions I could find. When other students would cancel their flights, I had standing instructions to my flight school to call me. I flew a lot in 24G33 with moderate chops ... all with the safety net of a 9000 hr CFII that I trust. Over time, trained my mind to really understand that no matter what, it not gonna fall out of the sky and YOU control all 3 axis. Find out what the root cause of ur apprehensions are and mitigate them. Only u can find it. There a little things that helps too, for example for me a ANR headset helped me concentrate a whole lot more, but again only u can find out what u need to address. Best of luck and keep is updated when u solo. I can assure u, it's the best thing u will ever do. Not only because u did something that very few actually do, but also the fact that u could get over your own fear and achieve something u set out to do. It's an awesome feeling and will boost your confidence a lot.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 
Zeldman said:
Could it be a fear of falling? I had a head shink for a student, and I mentioned to him that when I am in a tall building I feel something pulling me towards the window, and it feels I am going to fall out. He told me I just have a fear of falling. And because I am in control of the airplane is why I don't feel it in the plane.

He also mentioned that most people that think they have a fear of heights really have a fear of falling. Very interesting person to talk to.
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That's what I have and hence I didn't bank more than 2 degrees when I started out . Sure I am laughing now, but back in the day... it wasn't amusing at all.

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