a "can you log this" question

NoHeat

NoHeat

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Here's a "can you log this" question:

Suppose you reserve time with an instructor and a simulator or FTD. You want to do some approaches and log them -- for currency, or maybe because you're a student. But you're not fit to fly a real plane -- let's say you misplaced your photo ID, the dog ate your certificate, your medical lapsed yesterday, and you just took a dramamine tablet washed down with beer. Despite all that, you have a useful lesson in the simulator that improves your skill.

Is this time valid for keeping you current or qualifying for a rating?

And no, I'm not going to really do this. I just think we're due for a logging thread.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Why wouldn't it be?
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Unless something has changed, you have only a very limited number of FTD hours which can be used for an IFR rating. When I tried to use one for an IPC I was told that an IPC or currency requirements can only be met in a real plane.
 
That's loggable time for IFR currency. It would be loggable time even if they brought the sim to the recovery room after your heart transplant.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
I would like to see an FAR reference for that.
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It's very difficult to do an IPC in a sim, particularly the circle to land portion...very few sims are certified for that maneuver.

That said, if you're within 6 months of losing currency (ie. can get current by shooting approaches), then you can do those approaches in a sim no problem.
 
Greg,

looks like:
61.57 (a)(3), (b)(2), (c)(2) works <== to satisfy currency, not IPC
 
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ArtPileggi said:
Unless something has changed, you have only a very limited number of FTD hours which can be used for an IFR rating. When I tried to use one for an IPC I was told that an IPC or currency requirements can only be met in a real plane.
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Whoever told you that was misinformed.

There are limits on how much time towards the initial instrument rating you can apply an FTD towards, but there is no such restriction on using an FTD to maintain currency. The only issue is that a couple of years ago, they updated the currency requirement to make it a bit more specific/detailed as to what you had to do in the sim in order to count it towards currency which many interpreted to be that it is often easier to accomplish in the real plane, but use of the sim was not eliminated.
 
JeffDG said:
It's very difficult to do an IPC in a sim, particularly the circle to land portion...very few sims are certified for that maneuver.

That said, if you're within 6 months of losing currency (ie. can get current by shooting approaches), then you can do those approaches in a sim no problem.
Click to expand...


61.57 (d)(1)(i) says "No Go" -- must be real aircraft for IPC
 
oldShar said:
61.57 (d)(1)(i) says "No Go" -- must be real aircraft for IPC
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You might want to look up the meaning of the word "or".

61.57 (d) ...
(1) The instrument proficiency check must be—
(i) In an aircraft that is appropriate to the aircraft category;
(ii) For other than a glider, in a flight simulator or flight training device that is representative of the aircraft category; or
(iii) For a glider, in a single-engine airplane or a glider.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
I would like to see an FAR reference for that.
Click to expand...

dmspilot said:
You might want to look up the meaning of the word "or".

61.57 (d) ...
(1) The instrument proficiency check must be—
(i) In an aircraft that is appropriate to the aircraft category;
(ii) For other than a glider, in a flight simulator or flight training device that is representative of the aircraft category; or
(iii) For a glider, in a single-engine airplane or a glider.
Click to expand...

Well, that did it. Got it with this quote. Which proved MY point. :wink2:
 
The issue with IPCs is whether the device can provide visual cues for the circle-to-land. I believe that quite a few "real" simulators can do this, and Redbird was looking at adding a couple more screens for "windows" in order to facilitate circling.

What gets people on the IPC, I think, is that a circle-to-land is now a required manuever on the IPC (and believe that's a change from 10+ years ago).
 
TMetzinger said:
The issue with IPCs is whether the device can provide visual cues for the circle-to-land. I believe that quite a few "real" simulators can do this, and Redbird was looking at adding a couple more screens for "windows" in order to facilitate circling.

What gets people on the IPC, I think, is that a circle-to-land is now a required manuever on the IPC (and believe that's a change from 10+ years ago).
Click to expand...

That said, if you just need currency, and aren't out long enough that the only way is an IPC, you can do all 6 of your approached in a FTD...it just won't be an IPC, but for all intents and purposes, it will serve exactly the same purpose as a full IPC.
 
All flight simulation devices (flight simulators, FTD's, and ATD's) approved for FAA purposes have a Letter of Authorization which states the purposes to which they may be used, in some cases including/excluding specific maneuvers such as circle-to-land. In order to know whether you can do all, part, or none of an IPC in any particular device, you have to read that letter.
 
Ron Levy said:
All flight simulation devices (flight simulators, FTD's, and ATD's) approved for FAA purposes have a Letter of Authorization which states the purposes to which they may be used, in some cases including/excluding specific maneuvers such as circle-to-land. In order to know whether you can do all, part, or none of an IPC in any particular device, you have to read that letter.
Click to expand...

There is an FTD at a local flight school that has large screens about 4ft-5ft out in front of the cockpit windows that provide about 150 degree coverage. The FTD is certified for the Circle to land maneuver and is approved for IPC at ASEL and AMEL levels. I believe WingX is the driving program.
 
BillTIZ said:
There is an FTD at a local flight school that has large screens about 4ft-5ft out in front of the cockpit windows that provide about 150 degree coverage. The FTD is certified for the Circle to land maneuver and is approved for IPC at ASEL and AMEL levels. I believe WingX is the driving program.
Click to expand...
I suspect you meant X-Plane instead of an iPad app.
 
BillTIZ said:
There is an FTD at a local flight school that has large screens about 4ft-5ft out in front of the cockpit windows that provide about 150 degree coverage. The FTD is certified for the Circle to land maneuver and is approved for IPC at ASEL and AMEL levels. I believe WingX is the driving program.
Click to expand...

I think you meant X-plane, not WingX. California Airways at Hayward has one of those too.
 
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