A/C opinions sought

Tough to find parts for. Depending on how the airplane has been operated, a top overhaul might be on the horizon. And on an airplane that slow, the engines have probably been run hard.

I'd pass on an old twin like this simply because of the parts availability. A friend of mine was having a hard enough time on his 79 Aztec.
 
The Apache is actually a good old aircraft, aluminum skin over steel tube construction with Lycoming engines and Hertzell props, So how hard can it be to support them with parts. As for the airframe try calling around, you'll find every part can be bought new or used.

This is 1 twin you can't load to gross and fly single engine, Half fuel, 2 people, it's OK, but heavy it will hurt you.

It has some expensive ADs so run an AD list and be sure they are complied with.
 
what did he claim, SE svc ceiling, 12K?? (it does have rjays)
that was not fully loaded

I think a stock pa23 would be SE 4-5K?

thks
 
Touch base with ApacheBob. He had a 'classic' Apache for a while and can tell you some of the 'fun' he had with some maintenance issues.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
What do y'all think of this Apache? A friend is asking, I know nothing about them.
Thanks

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Othe...QadiZ2829QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item220239459280
Click to expand...

Pretty good looking for an Apache, but I'd want to see more pictures (and closer!), and pictures of the interior and panel. I've seen some of these old "With Garmin 430!" planes where the 430 turns out to be in some really funky place where it's halfway unusable.

Now, if the P&I is OK, and the panel is in a reasonable configuration, it's a cheap way to get a twin... Until it goes to the maintenance hangar, that is. :hairraise:

The big AD on Apaches is for the props, I don't know right offhand if the props listed are the ones in the AD. Doubt it, but worth checking.
 
Ron Levy said:
Looks like a steal at $45K -- what's the catch?
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Well I guess who is doing the 'stealing'

That is a pretty top dollar price for that airplane. I think the seller did the pop a 430 in it and ask for $10k more thing that we see far too often these days. The engine are at half their TBO life so that needs to be factored in.
 
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rubber314chicken said:
http://www.aso.com/i.aso3/aircraft_...up=truexxxxxsearchid=15137974xxxxxregionid=-1

not the same plane, but its about $20,000 ish cheaper.... might save enough to cover the excess maintenance needed.
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On a nearly 12,000 hour airframe that has a 2,000 hour engine and a 3,000 hour engine, and even states it needs a new fuel bladder among all the other stuff likely to be found on a pre-buy? Not likely. :no: Heck, one engine on an Aztec is gonna cost more than $20,000.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Pretty good looking for an Apache, but I'd want to see more pictures (and closer!), and pictures of the interior and panel. I've seen some of these old "With Garmin 430!" planes where the 430 turns out to be in some really funky place where it's halfway unusable.

Now, if the P&I is OK, and the panel is in a reasonable configuration, it's a cheap way to get a twin... Until it goes to the maintenance hangar, that is. :hairraise:

The big AD on Apaches is for the props, I don't know right offhand if the props listed are the ones in the AD. Doubt it, but worth checking.
Click to expand...

That's a fine looking Apache, if you can afford the fuel bill and like older classic twins, that's a FINE one.

Kent, there were links to lots of panel and interior pictures right below the main photo. Here's the panel shots (sorry for the large shots; is there any way to specify width and height on IMG tags with vbCode?):

N4159P-Panel2-950.jpg


N4159P-Panel3-950.jpg


And, just to give you an idea of the interior:

N4159P-Front-Carpets-950.jpg
 
TangoWhiskey said:
That's a fine looking Apache, if you can afford the fuel bill and like older classic twins, that's a FINE one.

Kent, there were links to lots of panel and interior pictures right below the main photo. Here's the panel shots (sorry for the large shots; is there any way to specify width and height on IMG tags with vbCode?):

And, just to give you an idea of the interior:
Click to expand...

Wow, that is a nice bird!

*starts digging coins out of the couch cushions*
 
I love the PA-23. Depending on what you want to do (i.e. if the intent is to fly to very high altitudes), the turbo 4s might make more sense than the naturally aspirated 6s found in the Aztecs. To me, the manual wastegate on those engines has its advantages, as well. Let's say you're someplace where the DA is 10,000 ft, and you want a little extra power on take-off...

While the engines and props will be easy to maintain, the maintenance concerns are going to be with the rest of the airplane. Those parts do break, and while I believe that a lot of them are interchangable with the Aztec (I've even seen Apaches fitted with the PA-23-250-E/F nose), I doubt that all are.

The 4-cylinder engines are not going to make a ton of power for takeoff here, unless you regularly turn up the boost well past what you ought to. When I flew an Aztec D, even with full fuel and only 2 people, it used significantly more runway than I would have expected for takeoff. This was on a pretty chilly day, too. I would suspect that in Texas, the 4s will be downright anemic. As has been said, the SE service ceiling I would question. Once again, the turbos will help here, but part of it comes down to how hard do you want to push the one remaining engine you have when your first one has failed?

Then again, your friend could just want a twin because you love twins (I know I love twins), and nothing else will do. If so, my flight instructor has something along the lines of 2000 hours of Aztec time and owned one himself, and he absolutely loves the planes. They're heavy, but also very durable. I am looking for a twin as well, but for me I wouldn't consider an Apache, simply because of the poor single engine performance. I'm thinking Aztec/310/Baron. There are many 310s out there for even less than that price, and then you've got better single engine performance and a faster plane. What I'm not certain of is the maintenance condition, but certainly a number of them appear to be in decent shape. I hear the older 310s are even harder to find parts for, though... no experience, just rumor.
 
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