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iWantWings

Pre-takeoff checklist
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wingsIwant
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I wanted to see what the deflection of the surface controls looks like at various speeds in the rental C172 and what the rearward view is like.

My gopro2 battery seems to lose charge way faster than normal and it discharged at start of flight (!).

After a few airport patterns I departed at dusk and returned by early night time - gopro battery only lasted for about 15-20 minutes (much of the recording was on-ground as well).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dR1UUbETK0I&feature=youtu.be
 
Well that's a different view.
 
Great video!

One thing to consider, and I know you are flying a fixed gear Cessna.
But raising the flaps before coming to a stop after clearing the runway is a bad habit.

One day you'll be flying a retract and reach for the flaps and hit the wrong switch.
 
Cool concept.

May try it in the Sky Arrow one day.

I checked out the Sky Arrow - cool plane! If you had never used a gopro, or similar camera, to film in flight, I would highly recommend first recording in the cabin (fewer safety issues to consider, legal, etc.).

But yes, lots and lots of fun to look back at and kindle memories (I have my first solo from 2012 recorded in cockpit, as well as flight with the instructor before she surprised me that I would solo).

My simplified advice would be to never let the recording be a distraction in any phases of flight (including ground preflight) and consider risks (if any). And then, hit the record button and enjoy the video after the flight.
 
Great video!

One thing to consider, and I know you are flying a fixed gear Cessna.
But raising the flaps before coming to a stop after clearing the runway is a bad habit.

One day you'll be flying a retract and reach for the flaps and hit the wrong switch.

Glad you enjoyed the video.

Interesting and good advice. I'm not sure why I thought this, but I was thinking that there's a "Weight ON Wheels" sensor in airplanes with retractable gear so it would never allow the landing gear to be retracted while the airplane is on the ground? I don't know (I'm sure some "bigger" planes have them, but now I don't know about GA-sized ones).

Raising the flaps immediately after touchdown became a habit after I was told that it would help me with (a.) Braking (when hard braking is needed) and with (b.) emergency situations where you must immediately depart the runway after touchdown. So it became a habit, albeit maybe not all that good (?).

"Speaking" of doing things on the runway after touchdown, I think I might be doing things that would better be left after taxing off the runway. I know that immediately after touchdown I do things like raise flaps, lean the mixture, set the transponder to standby. No CFI ever cautioned me or corrected me, but the flight isn't over on touchdown so I should still do nothing but make sure I clear the runway safely first and then do all those other things. Who knows... (but these little things became chiseled in my brain now and hopefully they don't distract me while rolling off the runway)
 
So it became a habit, albeit maybe not all that good (?)...No CFI ever cautioned me or corrected me, but the flight isn't over on touchdown so I should still do nothing but make sure I clear the runway safely first and then do all those other things. Who knows... (but these little things became chiseled in my brain now and hopefully they don't distract me while rolling off the runway)

From the FAA Airplane Flying Handbook:

"Once the airplane has slowed sufficiently and has turned on to the taxiway and stopped, the pilot should retract the flaps and clean up the airplane. Many accidents have occurred as a result of the pilot unintentionally operating the landing gear control and retracting the gear instead of the flap control when the airplane was still rolling. The habit of positively identifying both of these controls, before actuating them, should be formed from the very beginning of flight training and continued in all future flying activities."

An interesting experiment for you would be to try to land and do absolutely NOTHING until stopped clear of the runway. It's harder than you think. There seems to be a psychological need to do something to signify a safe arrival. But in truth, there really is nothing that can't wait.
 
I noticed on take off the elevator is in the nose down position until airspeed corrects it to the neutral position. Good airmanship would have you keep the elevator in the nose up position to lighten the load on the nose wheel at all times. ;)
 
From the FAA Airplane Flying Handbook:

"Once the airplane has slowed sufficiently and has turned on to the taxiway and stopped, the pilot should retract the flaps and clean up the airplane. Many accidents have occurred as a result of the pilot unintentionally operating the landing gear control and retracting the gear instead of the flap control when the airplane was still rolling. The habit of positively identifying both of these controls, before actuating them, should be formed from the very beginning of flight training and continued in all future flying activities."

An interesting experiment for you would be to try to land and do absolutely NOTHING until stopped clear of the runway. It's harder than you think. There seems to be a psychological need to do something to signify a safe arrival. But in truth, there really is nothing that can't wait.

Well, sure enough it's Louad and Clear in the FAA Airplane Flying Handbook - just as BillTIZ advised me to do, and you linked to.

I "WILLCO" from this point on. Thanks!
 
I noticed on take off the elevator is in the nose down position until airspeed corrects it to the neutral position. Good airmanship would have you keep the elevator in the nose up position to lighten the load on the nose wheel at all times. ;)

You noticed! :D Good observation. I generally keep the elevator at neutral (although on the ground it isn't clear to me what "neutrual" is until the airplane is weight off wheels);

What you are telling me makes perfect sense but requires more attention and finesse (kind of like the soft field takeoff).

Okay, i might embarass myself with this question but, how do i tell what the neutral position of the elveator is while the ground? (it's not like there's a marker as is for the trim tab). I assume i need to know what the netural evelator position is so i can use it as a reference during takeoff.

(For soft field is easy: the reference is the physical stop in the aft position of the yoke, but neutral, I dont know).
 
I've been given good pointers, thank you! Helps me be safe and it didn't cost me a dime lol.

This makes think I should schedule some CFI time, ask him/her to watch various clips of me flying and then ask to critique and see what list of No-Nos :no: the CFI will come up with.
 
You noticed! :D Good observation. I generally keep the elevator at neutral (although on the ground it isn't clear to me what "neutrual" is until the airplane is weight off wheels);

What you are telling me makes perfect sense but requires more attention and finesse (kind of like the soft field takeoff).

Okay, i might embarass myself with this question but, how do i tell what the neutral position of the elveator is while the ground? (it's not like there's a marker as is for the trim tab). I assume i need to know what the netural evelator position is so i can use it as a reference during takeoff.

(For soft field is easy: the reference is the physical stop in the aft position of the yoke, but neutral, I dont know).

IMHO, it is a good idea to have the stick or yoke all the way aft all the time while taxiing and during take off. Go to neutral (smoothly) as the nose lifts up. Land and take off on the main gears.
 
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:goofy:

IMHO, it is a good idea to have the stick or yoke all the way aft all the time while taxiing and during take off. Go to neutral (smoothly) as the nose lifts up.

Well, the traditional diagrams do not agree, at least as to the taxi part:

Fixed_Wing.jpg


Tailwheel taxi into the wind, yes.

Full aft stick on a normal takeoff is not normal SOP, and I don't think most POH's call for it.

If it works for you, great - but it is not the norm, nor especially good advice in general.
 
Point made and taken, but we were specifically talking about taking off. We were not talking about taxiing in windy conditions. Way too many tri gear pilots don't use the control surfaces like they are suppose to, that is to take pressure off the nose wheel.

You are just ****ed because you didn't notice the nose down elevator position on take off. ;)

:lol:
 
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...
My gopro2 battery seems to lose charge way faster than normal and it discharged at start of flight (!).

After a few airport patterns I departed at dusk and returned by early night time - gopro battery only lasted for about 15-20 minutes (much of the recording was on-ground as well).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dR1UUbETK0I&feature=youtu.be

I need to pick your brain on the Go Pro operation...

You can answer me here or PM me if ya want..

Yesterday I bought a Hero +3 Black edition.. I spent a few hours and fabricated a mount / bracket and attached it to my plane this morning.. I will get some pics on how I did it.. Now some questions..

1- How did you import the cockpit audio since the camera is out on the wing?

2- What camera settings did you use ?

3- I charge the Go Pro battery through the puter USB port, does that give it a full charge or do I need to buy the 110v stand alone unit ?

4- What software did ya use to edit it ?

It has started to rain /snow so the test flight might happen on Weds.

Thanks in advance for the feedback...
 
IMHO, it is a good idea to have the stick or yoke all the way aft all the time while taxiing and during take off. Go to neutral (smoothly) as the nose lifts up. Land and take off on the main gears.

Got it. Wait till ill post another video in the future and lets see how it looks :- )
 
I need to pick your brain on the Go Pro operation...

You can answer me here or PM me if ya want..

Yesterday I bought a Hero +3 Black edition.. I spent a few hours and fabricated a mount / bracket and attached it to my plane this morning.. I will get some pics on how I did it.. Now some questions..

1- How did you import the cockpit audio since the camera is out on the wing?

2- What camera settings did you use ?

3- I charge the Go Pro battery through the puter USB port, does that give it a full charge or do I need to buy the 110v stand alone unit ?

4- What software did ya use to edit it ?

It has started to rain /snow so the test flight might happen on Weds.

Thanks in advance for the feedback...

No problem. Later this evening PDT i will reply to this post with the info. Ill try to also find links for any part/component that i use. This will be one of multiple options but it will give you a good idea.

I will also try to explain the common gopro settings and what instances they are used for, as well as what software/programs can be used for editing.

In the very begining i recommend keeping it all very simple and then get fancy later on. Will explain what i know late tonight. (I surely am no expert but it works okay for me)
 
You are just ****ed because you didn't notice the nose down elevator position on take off. ;)

:lol:

I see the smiley! :wink2:

But I actually did take note of the elevator, but did not think it worth mentioning. It's a rather small point until the plane builds up some speed.

For normal takeoffs in nosewheel GA aircraft, I normally hold neutral elevator until right before approaching the white arc. Then I start to lift (rotate) the nose in much the way larger jets do. Hold it there until the plane lifts off.

Works well for me under most conditions. Short and soft fields notwithstanding.
 
And, finally...

Two main reasons not to have the stick back initially on the takeoff roll:

1) Increased drag from the deflected elevator. Not huge (usually*), but it makes a difference.

2) Possibility of a gust lifting the plane prematurely.


* I tried a soft field takeoff from grass in my Cirrus using the technique I had been taught in Cessnas - stick all the way back, hold the nose high until the plane struggles into ground effect, then level off and accelerate to Vx or Vy as appropriate. Problem was, with the stick all the way back the Cirrus just would not accelerate. I finally had to lower the nose until it was just clear of the grass to get in the air.
 
And, finally...

Two main reasons not to have the stick back initially on the takeoff roll:

1) Increased drag from the deflected elevator. Not huge (usually*), but it makes a difference.

2) Possibility of a gust lifting the plane prematurely.


* I tried a soft field takeoff from grass in my Cirrus using the technique I had been taught in Cessnas - stick all the way back, hold the nose high until the plane struggles into ground effect, then level off and accelerate to Vx or Vy as appropriate. Problem was, with the stick all the way back the Cirrus just would not accelerate. I finally had to lower the nose until it was just clear of the grass to get in the air.

Huh...

What did you have.... two out of six plug wires removed ?:dunno: ....:rolleyes:
 
Huh...

What did you have.... two out of six plug wires removed ?:dunno: ....:rolleyes:

It WAS weird.

310 hp can cover up all kind of sins.

But it was at a friend's strip (Kings Port) near Lake a Placid, FL, and I could not accelerate until I lowered the nose. Took me half the runway to figure it out.

It DID happen!
 
Glad you enjoyed the video.

Interesting and good advice. I'm not sure why I thought this, but I was thinking that there's a "Weight ON Wheels" sensor in airplanes with retractable gear so it would never allow the landing gear to be retracted while the airplane is on the ground? I don't know (I'm sure some "bigger" planes have them, but now I don't know about GA-sized ones).

Raising the flaps immediately after touchdown became a habit after I was told that it would help me with (a.) Braking (when hard braking is needed) and with (b.) emergency situations where you must immediately depart the runway after touchdown. So it became a habit, albeit maybe not all that good (?).

"Speaking" of doing things on the runway after touchdown, I think I might be doing things that would better be left after taxing off the runway. I know that immediately after touchdown I do things like raise flaps, lean the mixture, set the transponder to standby. No CFI ever cautioned me or corrected me, but the flight isn't over on touchdown so I should still do nothing but make sure I clear the runway safely first and then do all those other things. Who knows... (but these little things became chiseled in my brain now and hopefully they don't distract me while rolling off the runway)

Your trusting that weight on wheels sensor is working, or that you actually have enough weight on the wheels. Reaching for the flap switch while still rolling down the runway, eyes outside, you touch / move the wrong switch and the wheels fold.

There is another thread on POA from an instructor. His student flipped the gear switch on rollout before he could stop him. The gear folded.
 
I need to pick your brain on the Go Pro operation...

You can answer me here or PM me if ya want..

Yesterday I bought a Hero +3 Black edition.. I spent a few hours and fabricated a mount / bracket and attached it to my plane this morning.. I will get some pics on how I did it.. Now some questions..

1- How did you import the cockpit audio since the camera is out on the wing?

2- What camera settings did you use ?

3- I charge the Go Pro battery through the puter USB port, does that give it a full charge or do I need to buy the 110v stand alone unit ?

4- What software did ya use to edit it ?

It has started to rain /snow so the test flight might happen on Weds.

Thanks in advance for the feedback...

First I'll summarize my answers to your questions, than add a bunch of stuff that you might already know, or might find useful.

1- How did you import the cockpit audio since the camera is out on the wing?
Answer: there are 2 separate audio sources in the video. One is the ambient noise/engine sound. That audio was captured by the gopro camera mounted outside the cockpit. The second audio source was the comm radio; this was recorded by a separate audio recorder that was connected to the comm radio and headset. Then, in video editing, I combined the audio from the comm radio with the video-and-audio from the gopro. In editing I also varied which audio had the higher or lower amplitude, dpending on what was being filmed (for example, when there was a radio call, I lowerd the audio from the outside captured by the gopro; or, when there was no radio comms made, I left the outside audio from the gopro at its normal level.


2- What camera settings did you use ?
Answer: 720p 60 frames per second with my gopro 2. If I had a gopro 3 black, I would use whatever highest resolution available that would still give me 60 frames per second. For example, my gopro 2 gives me 60 frames per second at 720p, but only 30 frames per second at 1080. I think gopro hero 3 gives something like 60frames per second at 1080p which is pretty amazing. But, for small displays, you will generally not notice any difference between 1080p and 720p, but you would notice the higher frame rate vs. lower frame rate. IMPORTANT: I think you tube reduces the frame rate from to 30 frames per second, not matter what your original frame rate is. That's why you tube videos look ****ty compared with original video's high frame rate (you tube also further compresses your video).
​
3- I charge the Go Pro battery through the puter USB port, does that give it a full charge or do I need to buy the 110v stand alone unit ?

Answer: it does not matter. You can get maximum charge capacity out of USB and 110V outlet. But I personally find it a pain in the butt to turn
on my laptop and connect my gopro via USB just to charge it.
​
4- What software did ya use to edit it ?
Answer: Lots of options here and I only have experience with only 1: Adobe Premiere Elements verison 11 (a newer version is now available). I can do anything I want with it, but for me, the interface of the stupid thing is mostly not intuitive. Almost nothing comes naturally. But once I learned the basics (and I don't forget them!), it is very useful. There better options out there that are easier to use for basic video editing (note: Adobe premier Elements version 11 has a basic mode and advanced mode; I did not try the basic mode because it didn't let me do some of the editing I wanted to).
​
And Now for the Extra information of what is needed to do video/audio from go pro, as well as auxiliary audio from com radio.

GoPro Video Camera

You already have it.
​
GoPro Suction Cup

You already have it.
​
GoPro3 Skeleton Housing ($28)
http://www.amazon.com/GoPro-AHDKH-3...4508076&sr=8-1&keywords=gopro+hero+3+skeleton
You will need this if you want to record comm radio audio with the GoPro. If you use the GoPro
to record comm radio, than the video in the GoPro will have comm radio but will not have ambient/engine noise
audio. You can use the GoPro to record ambient/engine audio and then use a separate audio recoder
to record comm audio. Then you will have to use some video editing application to combine the
gopro video with the engine audio with the comm audio from the separate audio recorder.
​
GoPro Hero 3 Audio Adapter ($47)
http://www.mypilotstore.com/MyPilotStore/sep/9311
You will need this if you want to record com radio. This can be used to interface the device that will record
the audio (either GoPro or separate audio recorder). Your headset will also interface inline with this cable
to get com radio. Note that the example above works ONLY with GoPro Hero 3 and above. For GoPro Hero 2 or
earlier you need a similar cable but it has a differnt plug.
​
Olympus Digital Voice Recorder VN-702PC ($50)
http://www.amazon.com/Olympus-VN-702PC-Voice-Recorder/dp/B006ZW4HY2/ref=sr_1_3?
s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1394507556&sr=1-3&keywords=Olympus+Digital+Voice+Recorder
This is if you want to record com radio and allow the GoPro to record ambient/engine audio. You'll need a cable adapter to connect the comm headset with this audio recorder as well (so you can record what you hear in the headset).
​
Video Editing software: Adobe Premiere Elements 11 ($60)
http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Premier...=1394507606&sr=1-3&keywords=elements+premiere
If you decide to record ambient engine noise AND comm radio, you will need an application to combine
the video/audio from the gopro with the comm audio from the separate recorder. Even if you do not
record separate audios, you might still want to use some sort of video editing software to trim
your video and make basic edits. I usually end up using only about 20 to 40% of what i film, when i want to
show it to others, because the normal audience gets bored quickly.
​
GoPro Settings

There are different parameters that can be set. Most common settings are for
- resolution: 720, 960, 1080, etc.
- frame rate: 30fps, 60fps, 120fps, and some other stuff in between
- aspect ratio: wide angle or 4:3
​
Resolution

Naturally, higher resolution gives just that - but I don't always chose it because
it has some impact on battery life, the speed at which data is written to the card, the filesize
to be managed. So, because I watch most of my videos on things like ipad, laptops and smarphones,
is usually select 720p.
​
Frame rate
The higher the framerate, the smoother the dispplay of the video. My goPro2 does only 60fps
and it does that only at 720p. At 1080 i think it does only 30fps. With gopro3 black edition
it think you can do 120fps. That's a very high rate and some people use it with fast action
and then do slow motion in post-processing editing. The higher the frame rate, the smoother the
video looks when you slow it down. In avaition things the action is generally not that fast
so I personally don't do slow motion and do 60fps. Note that a higher frame rate will
use battery faster, generate a larger file size and takes longer to process by the editing application
unless you have a fast hardware.
​
Aspect ratio

Most people are used to wide screen. In aviation it works well. I have done both and both have their
merit. I sometimes use the 4:3 ratio when i want to capture more stuff vertically, like if i'm in the cockpit
and i want to see, both the full windsreen from top to bottom as well as the instruments. Of course,
the view is not so wide. Generally i use the wide option.
​
View Angle
This is not something you can change (at least not with gopro2, not sure about gopro3).
I think it has a 170* viewing angle which is super wide! This is why it is possible to stick a gopro
in tight spaces and still get a very wide view. But keep in mind that this also distors the perspective
considerably. Things get streched sideways more than they are in reality and as a consequence they get
totally flattened - so whatever is high, becomes short and wide (which is y many gopro videos
give the impression that airplane are far from the runway and very low).
​
Mounting Option
So far i have always used the suction cup mount for an airplane - and for this information i will
only discuss mounting the gopro in the interior of the aircraft. MAke sure the suction cup is clean
and that the surface you mount it to is flat and clean. I generally mount it on side of the window
opposite of me' I've also mounted it in the near side window.
Try your best to align the camera in a position parallel with the horizon. My camera does not
have the auxiliary ddisplay to see "waht does the view look like". That would allow to adjust
the camera until satified, and then record. I've done some amateur photography stuff and am used
to perspective, wide angles, etc., so i usually get what i want without having to see what the image
looks like when setting the camera up.
​
Exposure Option

I won't get too much into this. Keep in mind the following: The camear's sensor have a limitted
dynamic range, which is usually difficult to manage in a cockpit where the inside/instrument panel is
generally much darker/lesser light, than the sky. So this normally manifests itself in one of teh following
ways: either the instrument pannel/interiof of the aircraft looks "normal" (not too bright, not too dark),
while the view outdise looks totally bright, washed out, with no detail. Or, the opposite can occur:
the view outside looks "just right", while the cabin is totally dark and you cannot see any details in
the instruments. There is only one basic setting that can help you manage this, and is usually set by default
(in photography it is equivalent to the option of "matrix metering", don't know what gopro menu calls it).
In general, videos (and photos) come out best when the sky is somewhat high overcast, or the sun is early
rising or 15 minutes before setting. Reason being that the light has a more even intensity; it is a time
when there are generally no harsh shadows, so the light is of approximately equal intensity. Not much
control over this, so its mostly FYI.
​
Common Mistakes/Issues/
- Forgetting to power ON the gopro
- Battery is not charged enough
- Not having an SD card available
- Forgetting to press the REcord button (!)
- accidentally change the mode of the camera from video to something like photos (!) so, instead of recording
video, it takes one photo only, or a series of photos at an even interval (which is actually kid of cool
for post processing, creating a montage of photos).
- mouting the camera oblique to the horizon.
- not being able to anticipate how wide of a view can the camera capture from a certain distance/position.
- generally people underestimate how long it takes to create a good, edited 5 minute clip from a
1 hour video.
- basic video editing is simple, but when you want to combine multiple audio sources with teh same video
source it gets a bit more complex.
- when combining audio/video from gopro with audio from comm radio, it can take some time to "line up" or
synchronize the audio fromthe comm to match the video from the gopro (unless you start both the video
and auxiliary audio recording exactly at the same time).
- it is tempting to monitor/think about the camera in flight, instead of comletely foregetting about it
and flying the plane.


​
IN SUMMARY
Charge the battery, insert an SD Card, mount it safely, set the camera to video mode and press the record button. The rest will follow.

And now for the disclaimer - this is just my understanding of things and I'm definitely no expert in audio/video stuff.
 
Wow! That's a long and informative post about the GoPro OP, and a lot of work. :thumbsup:

But I feel like a freak with my flap handle after hearing everyone gasp that you would do something so shocking as to lift the flaps on touchdown.

God forgive me for dumping flaps two feet off and sliding to a halt on that short muddy field, or jerking them in on power up to pop off. Oh the humanity and rule breaking ...

I can hear the shock and awe right here if I ever ball it up with a 6 o'clock HD view. :wink2:
 
First I'll summarize my answers to your questions, than add a bunch of stuff that you might already know, or might find useful.

And now for the disclaimer - this is just my understanding of things and I'm definitely no expert in audio/video stuff.


WOW... great feedback. Thanks a ton for spending the time to detail stuff..

What I will do is on the first test flight I will use the default settings the cam came with and see what happens. And post it on Youtube unedited..

Ps.. Anyone else have a hard time reading the tiny print in the Go Pro users manual... I swear I have decent vision and I needed a magnifying glass to read stuff.......... This gettin old sucks...:redface:

pss.... When I do I will start a new thread called Go Pro cameras and we can exchange info......
 
Ps.. Anyone else have a hard time reading the tiny print in the Go Pro users manual... I swear I have decent vision and I needed a magnifying glass to read stuff.......... This gettin old sucks...:redface:

Do you have a tablet?

Download the manual as a pdf and view it at whatever size you like!
 
Do you have a tablet?

Download the manual as a pdf and view it at whatever size you like!

Ha.. I am an old person.. I can't even speel tablet.....

Besides, I live in Wyoming... We do not have electricity out here...:nono:..:D
 
WOW... great feedback. Thanks a ton for spending the time to detail stuff..

What I will do is on the first test flight I will use the default settings the cam came with and see what happens. And post it on Youtube unedited..

Ps.. Anyone else have a hard time reading the tiny print in the Go Pro users manual... I swear I have decent vision and I needed a magnifying glass to read stuff.......... This gettin old sucks...:redface:

pss.... When I do I will start a new thread called Go Pro cameras and we can exchange info......

OK.... My first video with the new Go Pro Hero+3, Black Edition..

A quick lap around the pattern in Jackson Hole Wy... Had to swerve a bit to miss a flock of birds on take off.....

Turn up the volume...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=
 
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