4810 in 365 Days (Great CONUS Challenge)

SkyHog

SkyHog

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Ok guys - time to think about the next challenge, and its one I want all of you to help me with, if you're up for it.

There are 4810 Public Use airports in the Continental United States (according to data obtained from the FAA). This includes only Public Use airports. Sorry, this does not include Puerto Rico, Alaska, Hawaii or any of the US Territories.

I figure, given 365 days, we can land at every single one of them. I'll be setting up a webpage (or Michael will, more accurately) where you can log your landing. There are, of course, some rules:

1) You must be PIC, and this must be flown either Part 91 or Part 135. Sorry, no 121 Operations count.

2) All claims must be validated somehow. Make it fun! For example, plant a flag at the airport that says its been claimed by you, or put up a flyer. Some form of validation must be used. Just get a picture of your plane at the airport with your validation behind you. If you have no means of physically claiming the airport (ie, there is no place to put up a flyer), a picture of your plane with something notable that anyone would recognize at the airport behind you and a piece of paper and the date written on it will be acceptable. Finally, if all else is unavailable, a picture of a GPS showing present position and Lat/Long will work.

3) The landing must happen sometime within the contest dates. Landings logged before the challenge start or after the challenge end do not count.

More rules to come. The basic premise is that there are many GA airports that don't see the kind of traffic they should. Lets get out there and promote GA! You can do it! There are enough of us to where it should not be necessary for one pilot to do his entire home state/tri-state/region or whatever, unless he/she chooses to.

FAQ:
Q: What about airports like ATL, ORD, LGA, etc?
A: Thats why 135 operations are allowed. Of course, there's nothing that says that someone can't take a Piper Cub into LGA if one so desires, but with 135 ops allowed, it makes it a bit more realistic.

Q: How do we know that claims are legit?
A: Obviously, we need to prove claims, which is why a picture is required. There is a great hope that no one will falsify claims, since this is more of a get out and do something type of challenge than it is a "look what I did!" challenge.

Q:But I'm just a student pilot, I can't log PIC!
A:Without going into logging rules (not the right place), if you are landing the airplane with a CFI, and you are manipulating the airplane throughout the landing, you can claim the airport.

Q: Will this support a charity somehow?
A: This is a complex answer. There is no problem with setting up some sort of pledge drive locally for donations to a charity of your choice, but there is no official charity that is receiving money from this challenge. If people are setting up pledges, I will make sure its listed, and that it will receive publicity if requested.

Q: What do I win?
A: You win the freedom of flight. You got out and you flew to a bunch of airports, hopefully some that you wouldn't have anyways. Congratulations! This is why we fly, to see new places!

Q: But I don't have a GPS and the airport doesn't have a prominent landmark available. How am I supposed to claim the airport?
A: The ability to verify that a claim is legit has been brought up as a great concern. It is this reason that we need something to prove the landing. Find something prominent and take a picture of the plane in front of it with a datestamped piece of paper visible. There's gotta be something....

Q: What about touch and go landings? Do they count?
A: No. To avoid dangerous situations where someone takes a picture while still on the runway, the requirement is that the airplane be stopped on the ramp before a picture is taken. Please remember the datestamp.

Q: You're wrong, I know there are more than 4810 Public Use airports in the Continental United States. What about KXXX?
A: My list comes direct from the FAA's list. If something is missing, let me know, and I'll find out what's up. Remember, Private Use doesn't count. Its just too muddy to figure out all the individual airports and what can or can't be done.

Q: What date does this start?
A: This will not be disclosed until we get a bit closer to the date to avoid false claims.

Q: I have a suggestion on a rule or I think something should be changed! Are you open for suggestions?
A: Of course. This is supposed to be fun. Contact me at NickDBrennan !at! comcast !dot! net and I will let you know what I think.
 
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Re: 3769 in 365 Days (Great CONUS Challenge)

ooooooooooo I can't wait!
 
Re: 3769 in 365 Days (Great CONUS Challenge)

Sweet!! Sounds like a good reason to get the RV out and stretch the legs!

-Chris
 
Re: 3769 in 365 Days (Great CONUS Challenge)

Nick, I think you should drop the public-owned requirement. That requirement would exclude my home airport, along with Adam's BBQ airport, Wings, both of which are pilot owned. How about any airport marked on a sectional that isn't labeled as private?
 
Re: 3769 in 365 Days (Great CONUS Challenge)

Why demand photographic "proof" that an airport has been visited? Why not just use the honor system? Or accepting a photo of a logbook entry? After all, we'd never lie in our logbooks... That way T&G's can count too.

--Kath
 
Re: 3769 in 365 Days (Great CONUS Challenge)

First off, I want you all to know that the rules are not set in stone, but I'll explain why the photographic proof is needed. I've been discussing this with people from the board for a day or so, and the most common question that came up was "What if someone cheats?"

It never occurred to me that someone would, but if its that big of a concern, I guess we need to safeguard against it.

The other reasoning was that it'd be neat to build a photo database of every airport in the US as well.
 
Re: 3769 in 365 Days (Great CONUS Challenge)

RotaryWingBob said:
Nick, I think you should drop the public-owned requirement. That requirement would exclude my home airport, along with Adam's BBQ airport, Wings, both of which are pilot owned. How about any airport marked on a sectional that isn't labeled as private?
Click to expand...

That is actually a really good point. Instead, I'll filter the data only by "Public Use" and leave ownership out. There are some good strips missing because of it (including Gastons).
 
Re: 3769 in 365 Days (Great CONUS Challenge)

Hmmmm...

50 airports, 1100 miles, 2 days.

Anyone care to place a wager?



James Dean
 

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Re: 3769 in 365 Days (Great CONUS Challenge)

4810. Thats the new total, with all Public Use, regardless of ownership
 
Re: 3769 in 365 Days (Great CONUS Challenge)

What specifically do you mean by a "date stamped piece of paper? Can you provide a list of acceptable examples besides a newspaper? Also FWIW, a newspaper (assuming no photoshopping and no forgeries) would only prove that the picture was taken on or after the date on the paper.

What's the goal of the "proof"? I'm guessing that no 'official" organaziation will accept this "record" so I'm at a loss for the requirement of a relatively easily faked "proof" of the date (and place for that matter). Finally, a picture of a GPS showing the date, location, and velocity (zero or close to it) seems like the most robust "proof" that at least the GPS was at the airport. If the shot was taken with an airplane panel in the background, it would come pretty close to "proving" the plane was there as well. The only potential problem I see is that the GPS could be in a simulation mode but for most units I think there is a suitable page which would give the desired info and also indicate non-simulation operation.
 
I suggested a downladabe form that we all could use just put in the FAA ID and the Date and take a pic with it in it - and post.
This keeps things uniformed and able to not fudge any of the airport pics.
 
the newspaper as date-stamp is bringing back some memories of kidnapping cases...

I like the idea of a form a lot, in fact, by putting some space for notes, etc, and room for the photo, the forms can be assembled in a three-ring binder, and voila! A complete survey of public use airports in the US!

People can hang on to their forms for their memories and submit copies (electronic or snail mail) to SkyHog.
 
How does a logbook entry compare to authentication techniques listed here? Would a photo of the logbook in front of the airport sign work?
 
Would a photo from inside the plane thru the window/windshield showing a distinquishing landmark and the date count as long as it's taken on the ground and not on the runway with something unique in the foreground that appears in every picture taken by an individual (like the engine cowling or wing)? I think it would be pretty hard to read a logbook in a photo of a landmark unless you had a lens with an extreme depth of field. Could runway/taxiway signage be used as a landmark if it was unique to the airport (VOT location, RCO Freq, etc.) ?
 
Suggest we arbitrarily define KDCA as non-public use. Sure, we might be able to find one of the handful of Part 135 pilots who go in there, but I'd vote for not setting ourselves up for a (regulatory) impossible goal in the first place. Either that or I'll definitely be cutting & pasting my plane into that picture...

Regards,
Joe
 
Re: 3769 in 365 Days (Great CONUS Challenge)

James_Dean said:
Hmmmm...

50 airports, 1100 miles, 2 days.

Anyone care to place a wager?



James Dean
Click to expand...

Does that include ALL of the 'qualified' airports within the route, or is that just hitting some of the major ones? I didn't look at the charts that close to tell.

That's definitely possible, though. When I was doing the checkout in the club's Cardinal RG, my instructor and I did about 12 t-n-g's in 2 hours from Moline, IL to up around Rockford and south of Chicago. We didn't stop to get out though.

If you're taking the NW part of IA, I could probably hit a large portion of central Iowa in the RV.

Are you planning on doing the trip in the 'toga?

-Chris
 
Re: 3769 in 365 Days (Great CONUS Challenge)

CJones said:
Does that include ALL of the 'qualified' airports within the route, or is that just hitting some of the major ones? I didn't look at the charts that close to tell.

That's definitely possible, though. When I was doing the checkout in the club's Cardinal RG, my instructor and I did about 12 t-n-g's in 2 hours from Moline, IL to up around Rockford and south of Chicago. We didn't stop to get out though.

If you're taking the NW part of IA, I could probably hit a large portion of central Iowa in the RV.

Are you planning on doing the trip in the 'toga?

-Chris
Click to expand...

I just tried to capture the 50 closest airports to SPW, and make some kind of "reasonable" route. I was getting into Lance's area around FCM, Tony's around FOD, and the distances get bigger as you go farther west. I think I got every public airport inside the route. I didn't really scrutinize it either.

I'd love to pack some camping gear and do the trip in a weekend with the 'toga. It'd only be $500 in avgas. :eek::eek::eek::eek:

I might look at renting a warrior, give me a chance to leave the 530 behind, do some pilotage, and have some fun. Lately all my flying has been for business. I haven't had a flight where I just trotted around the patch for months.

James Dean
 
If you guys do this could you put your N number on flight aware or something so we who are not participating can be "part of it" too.
 
Wow - lots of questions!

Picture of logbook in front of a prominent object would work fine, because the date is on the logbook - therefore it's datestamped.

Picture from inside the airplane prominent object in background (OR VOT, customer signage, excellent suggestion) works fine, methinks.

Chip - I just went over my list again, and I see 4810. Are you sure you're not counting the 3 airports in CQ, not CO?

KDCA is a tough call. So is KIAD. If there is enough call to remove them, I'll remove them. Remember, GA can go into DCA, they just have to pick up an LEO...ugh, nevermind. Just saying it makes me want to cry.

Ok - downloadable form seems pretty popular. What if the form is forgotten? We'd need a backup, or else that 200nm flight you just took without the form becomes non-claimable. I'll provide the form, which will work as a datestamp in a picture, and if one forgets it, any piece of paper with the date written on it will work (or a newspaper).

Cheating the system by putting a previous date won't matter, because it just has to be between the start and finish date. As we get closer to the end, we'll have to find a way to keep track of claims, like stopping them at the very last day, but there won't be any big problem with falsified dates, and therefore no "easily falsified" method.

Wow - lots of questions, keep them up guys. These kind of questions are gonna make me think of every possible scenario and definitely make this happen!
 
Like steve said.

You are going to have a very hard time capturing a readable section of a logbook or newspaper along with an object in the background/distance.

You are going to have to focus on one or the other. Maybe if you setup a tripod and something to hold the newspaper/logbook and used a very tinny aperture and LOONNNG shutter speed..It might work... But, seriously, try to take a picture of your logbook so it is readable and an object off in the distance. Good luck.
 
Have the form template on your web page so at least they could print in case pilots forget the form at home.

Brooke, I heard Flight Aware does not capture all VFR flights.

I still would like this tied into a properly registered charity.
 
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DCA is out, but IAD is wide open to GA, and cheaper than many other "big" airports. The other 3 FRZ airports (VKX, CGS, and W32) are only available to those who are cleared, but there are a few of us members who are cleared. Besides, I can't take my rental planes on turf, but I CAN take them to the FRZ airports.

Flight Aware doesn't capture VFR flights, (even those who get flight following) with any consistency.

Leave a 3x5" area blank on the form for a picture, please!
 
Ok - Validation rule #2 has changed to be a bit more friendly and fun:

2) All claims must be validated somehow. Make it fun! For example, plant a flag at the airport that says its been claimed by you, or put up a flyer. Some form of validation must be used. Just get a picture of your plane at the airport with your validation behind you. If you have no means of physically claiming the airport (ie, there is no place to put up a flyer), a picture of your plane with something notable that anyone would recognize at the airport behind you and a piece of paper and the date written on it will be acceptable. Finally, if all else is unavailable, a picture of a GPS showing present position and Lat/Long will work.
 
SkyHog said:
Chip - I just went over my list again, and I see 4810. Are you sure you're not counting the 3 airports in CQ, not CO?
Click to expand...
Hmmm. Here are the counts I get for a total of 4813, but I could easily be doing something wrong:

State Count
AL 99
AR 99
AZ 80
CA 262
CO 77
CT 24
DE 11
FL 138
GA 109
IA 121
ID 120
IL 116
IN 112
KS 142
KY 61
LA 81
MA 41
MD 37
ME 70
MI 229
MN 155
MO 131
MS 81
MT 122
NC 112
ND 89
NE 89
NH 25
NJ 51
NM 60
NV 52
NY 157
OH 175
OK 147
OR 98
PA 135
RI 8
SC 69
SD 75
TN 84
TX 390
UT 49
VA 68
VT 17
WA 139
WI 129
WV 36
WY 41

Chip
 
I deleted some heliports...wonder if thats it. Lemme count them up

Totals
AL 98
AR 99
AZ 80
CA 262
CO 77
CT 23
DE 10
FL 133
GA 109
ID 120
IL 114
IN 112
IA 121
KS 143
KY 61
LA 80
ME 69
MD 37
MA 41
MI 234
MN 155
MS 80
MO 131
MT 121
NE 89
NV 52
NH 25
NJ 51
NM 60
NY 156
NC 111
ND 90
OH 174
OK 148
OR 98
PA 137
RI 8
SC 68
SD 75
TN 84
TX 393
UT 47
VT 17
VA 68
WA 139
WV 36
WI 130
WY 41
DC 3
4810
 
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Sounds like as good a reason as any to see the countryside by air. I can do the western half of KY and TN around 70 in a month of weekends maybe a few more. I'll bet I could drag Kevin along for som PIC time also
 
Depending on when this starts I might be able to participate... Would love to visit a number of the airports in SC :)

Great idea Nick!
 
Re: 3769 in 365 Days (Great CONUS Challenge)

James_Dean said:
I just tried to capture the 50 closest airports to SPW, and make some kind of "reasonable" route. I was getting into Lance's area around FCM, Tony's around FOD, and the distances get bigger as you go farther west. I think I got every public airport inside the route. I didn't really scrutinize it either.

James Dean
Click to expand...

This sounds like a ton of fun! Its kind of like we're av-caching, but much easier to find. I can tackle southern IA and northeastern MO easlily, maybe a bit of western IL.
 
I could probably pick up a few around central iowa when i get back to ames in august. not a lot though. Basically it would be whatever I can get my students to fly to ;)
 
Re: 3769 in 365 Days (Great CONUS Challenge)

bkreager said:
This sounds like a ton of fun! Its kind of like we're av-caching, but much easier to find. I can tackle southern IA and northeastern MO easlily, maybe a bit of western IL.
Click to expand...

Wow.. ANOTHER Iowan in here? I hear a lot of Ottumwa traffic when flying from Ames/Boone to Muscatine.

-Chris
 
tonycondon said:
I could probably pick up a few around central iowa when i get back to ames in august. not a lot though. Basically it would be whatever I can get my students to fly to ;)
Click to expand...

Depending on when the 'event' takes place, and if the wife isn't up for the long ride, you're more than welcome to hitch on in the RV. Maybe do some IR X-C work.. ;)

-Chris
 
SkyHog said:
2) All claims must be validated somehow. Make it fun! For example, plant a flag at the airport that says its been claimed by you, or put up a flyer.
Click to expand...

A PoA Flyer! :yes:
 
Lots of good ideas and it sounds like lots of fun. Here is another suggestion for "proving" your landing at an airport.

We need to prove nobody started early. We need to prove nobody flew after the year is over. There is an easy way to do this.

Nick, the night before the contest starts, post a short 3 or four letter password on the webboard. Something like AOPA and yes, now you can't use that one. But that one would have been pretty easy to guess. Now the proof that you are at the airport is a photo of your plane at the airport, background hopefully identifiable, with a 8x10 or larger piece of cardboard or paper with the password written on it in large block letters. The letters should show up on the photo and the photo will stand as proof that you were there no earlier than the beginning of the contest and that you were participating in the contest. The background will substantiate the location.

When were you there? I suggest that you use the timestamp on the email that sends the photo to you. Duplicate claims for the same airport will be decided by how fast the email got to you. Not perfect, but who cares? If the year ends 12/31 you can accept emails up to a week after (play with the dates to end on a Sunday). Yes there is a little slippage built into the five days and somebody could cheat if they really wanted to. Big deal at this point.

Anyhow, food for thought.

-Skip
 
So, when is the start date of this little quest?


James Dean
 
James_Dean said:
So, when is the start date of this little quest?


James Dean
Click to expand...

I'll let y'all know the start date approx a week before it starts. Right now, I'm just fishing to see who's interested.
 
Skip Miller said:
Lots of good ideas and it sounds like lots of fun. Here is another suggestion for "proving" your landing at an airport.

We need to prove nobody started early. We need to prove nobody flew after the year is over. There is an easy way to do this.

Nick, the night before the contest starts, post a short 3 or four letter password on the webboard. Something like AOPA and yes, now you can't use that one. But that one would have been pretty easy to guess. Now the proof that you are at the airport is a photo of your plane at the airport, background hopefully identifiable, with a 8x10 or larger piece of cardboard or paper with the password written on it in large block letters. The letters should show up on the photo and the photo will stand as proof that you were there no earlier than the beginning of the contest and that you were participating in the contest. The background will substantiate the location.

When were you there? I suggest that you use the timestamp on the email that sends the photo to you. Duplicate claims for the same airport will be decided by how fast the email got to you. Not perfect, but who cares? If the year ends 12/31 you can accept emails up to a week after (play with the dates to end on a Sunday). Yes there is a little slippage built into the five days and somebody could cheat if they really wanted to. Big deal at this point.

Anyhow, food for thought.

-Skip
Click to expand...

Not bad. A bit complex tho. I think the datestamp in the picture alone should be sufficient proof. Really, if someone's gonna cheat, there's no way to stop them, just make it difficult and not desired, and I feel thats what the datestamp does.
 
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