I'm sure somebody - if not everybody - here can answer this, but I can't: say one has a VFR plane with a 430 installed. Would upgrading the 430 to a 430W make the plane IFR?
Are you wanting to certify the aircraft as an IFR platform? Or change the GPS unit to be allowed to use in the IFR environment?
Hmm. I guess I'm not sure about the difference.
Right now the plane has a placard saying "approved for day/night VFR only". It has a non-WAAS 430 installed. I guess what it boils down to is that I am (naively) wondering if, by upgrading the Garmin, that placard can be removed.
What airplane is this?
The 430 was not installed in an IFR approved manner. Why, I have no idea but i'd guess it would take a shop around 2-4 hours to inspect the installation, correct anything that might be amiss and sign it off for IFR use
Oh! so you don't need a 430w for IFR, a regular 430 would work if the plane was IFR certified?
Oh! so you don't need a 430w for IFR, a regular 430 would work if the plane was IFR certified?
Sort of.
As Ted said in post #5, "A straight 430 is an IFR-approved GPS. The install being approved for IFR is another matter."
Meaning that the aircraft could have a valid IFR certification, but the GNS430(vanilla) will still require the "VFR Use Only" placard.
*forehead slap*
NOW I vividly remember why I stopped IFR training - there was something about information overload and feeling stupid.
It might be more accurate to say it's an IFR-approvable GPS. There is an installation, testing, and approval process which must be complied with in order to have the unit approved for IFR use. However, I've only seen one or two 430's which hadn't been through that process, and thus were limited to VFR use. So, if the plane has a 430 (WAAS or otherwise), odds are the 430 is approved for IFR use.A straight 430 is an IFR-approved GPS. The install being approved for IFR is another matter.
I'm sure somebody - if not everybody - here can answer this, but I can't: say one has a VFR plane with a 430 installed. Would upgrading the 430 to a 430W make the plane IFR?
The GPS is not the reason for that placard. If the GPS were not IFR-approved, the placard would read "GPS APPROVED FOR VFR ONLY." For the placard you have, there must be some other underlying issue, such as no attitude indicator or something like that. One would have to do more research into the installed equipment and maintenance records to know for sure. However, what you might do is take the list of required equipment for IFR in 91.205(d) and check it off one by one against what is installed in the airplane. My guess is you'll find something on that list which isn't in the plane.Hmm. I guess I'm not sure about the difference.
Right now the plane has a placard saying "approved for day/night VFR only". It has a non-WAAS 430 installed. I guess what it boils down to is that I am (naively) wondering if, by upgrading the Garmin, that placard can be removed.
The GPS is not the reason for that placard. If the GPS were not IFR-approved, the placard would read "GPS APPROVED FOR VFR ONLY." For the placard you have, there must be some other underlying issue, such as no attitude indicator or something like that. One would have to do more research into the installed equipment and maintenance records to know for sure. However, what you might do is take the list of required equipment for IFR in 91.205(d) and check it off one by one against what is installed in the airplane. My guess is you'll find something on that list which isn't in the plane.
Because that placard does not read the way the Advisory Circular and Garmin installation manual say a placard for VFR-only installation of a GPS should read. It does, however, read exactly the way the FAA guidance says it should either for an aircraft not approved for IFR under its type certificate (which would not apply to a Cherokee Six) or for one equipped per 91.205(c) but not 91.205(d). I suppose it's possible that the shop which did the 430 install doesn't know what they're doing and installed the wrong placard, but in that case, I'd have more serious concerns than the placard.Why do you think that?
Because that placard does not read the way the Advisory Circular and Garmin installation manual say a placard for VFR-only installation of a GPS should read. It does, however, read exactly the way the FAA guidance says it should either for an aircraft not approved for IFR under its type certificate (which would not apply to a Cherokee Six) or for one equipped per 91.205(c) but not 91.205(d). I suppose it's possible that the shop which did the 430 install doesn't know what they're doing and installed the wrong placard, but in that case, I'd have more serious concerns than the placard.
Before I take that bet, I'd like the OP to post a picture of the placard so we are sure of exactly what it says.I'd put my money on the wrong placquard.
How much?
I'll let you know after I see that placard. But if I take that bet at that point, I'll lay a c-note on it and you'll be able to take any or all of that.I'll go a ten spot on this one.
I'll let you know after I see that placard. But if I take that bet at that point, I'll lay a c-note on it and you'll be able to take any or all of that.
I'll let you know after I see that placard. But if I take that bet at that point, I'll lay a c-note on it and you'll be able to take any or all of that.
Thanks all for the educational responses, while it was a dumb question I got to learn several new things!
Still want to take the bet, Henning? You can have any or all of a c-note.
Still want to take the bet, Henning? You can have any or all of a c-note.
Ummm, no (seems it has to do with being out of 91.411 certification not lack of IFR cert on the GPS -- see post#32), but since you're not taking the bet, you aren't putting your money where your mouth is, and I'm OK with that. :bye:Keep reading and you'll see I was correct.
Ummm, no (seems it has to do with being out of 91.411 certification not lack of IFR cert on the GPS -- see post#32), but since you're not taking the bet, you aren't putting your money where your mouth is, and I'm OK with that. :bye:
"Yes, there should be no problem meeting IFR equipment requirements for the plane; primarily an IFR data card for the Garrmin 430. Plus the usual checks for pitot-static system, VOR OBS, and transponder."
For the placard you have, there must be some other underlying issue, such as no attitude indicator or something like that.
I see one problem with the placard...the guy that made it was spelling challenged. :wink2: