421 Down Wisconsin

Media now saying the aircraft broke up in flight. Debris scattered over 1/4 mile.
 
Two in flight break-ups of twins on the same day. Yikes!
 
Yeah, sad day. Both seem a little strange. It appears the piper in GA was VFR at the time and this 421 was cruising at 100. You would like to think if the Piper was VFR he should have been able to visually avoid the nasty wx and I would think the 421 would but up in the FL200+ range dodging the higher build up's. Guess time will tell perhaps.

Stay safe out there.
 
Radar Contact said:
Yeah, sad day. Both seem a little strange. It appears the piper in GA was VFR at the time and this 421 was cruising at 100. You would like to think if the Piper was VFR he should have been able to visually avoid the nasty wx and I would think the 421 would but up in the FL200+ range dodging the higher build up's. Guess time will tell perhaps.

Stay safe out there.
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We'd like to think it, but there's a reason why a large percentage of GA fatals are weather related, including VFR into IFR. Perhaps it's a majority if you consider "inadequate terrain clearance enroute" is usually about weather as well.
 
6 adults + fishing gear in a 421. And that was no 100nm hop it doesn't look like either.
 
Curious to know more about this "local weather phenomenon" that's mentioned between ATC and Pilot.
 
Ryanb said:
Curious to know more about this "local weather phenomenon" that's mentioned between ATC and Pilot.
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Me too. When you look at the historic radar from that time period/location there was a thunderstorm in the area.
 
Radar Contact said:
Me too. When you look at the historic radar from that time period/location there was a thunderstorm in the area.
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I noticed that. Didn't look too extreme or anything out of the ordinary and their last radar return had them well to the north of it.
 
Radar Contact said:
Yeah, sad day. Both seem a little strange. It appears the piper in GA was VFR at the time and this 421 was cruising at 100. You would like to think if the Piper was VFR he should have been able to visually avoid the nasty wx and I would think the 421 would but up in the FL200+ range dodging the higher build up's. Guess time will tell perhaps.

Stay safe out there.
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The PA23 was VFR (no FF) but at the time, that area was MVFR even outside the storms. It was one of those days where you really didn't have many breaks in the weather.
 
How you break up a PA23 in flight is beyond me. Thing is a tank and I flew the Aztec through all kinds of serious crap.

421 at the flight levels is easier to believe, mostly because the storms get much worse up there. Should you ever end up in a thunderstorm, slow down to Va and focus on wings level, don't worry about altitude.
 
Sad day for GA. While ago there was a thread about the decline in GA. In my opinion these kind of news are one of the important reason why we are not getting new pilots in GA
 
blueskyMD said:
In my opinion these kind of news are one of the important reason why we are not getting new pilots in GA
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Maybe, maybe not. It's nothing new, these kinds of tragedies have been happening since the birth of aviation.
 
True but nowadays there is more awareness . In the olden days people were willing to take more risk ( WW2 generation ? ) . Now there are lots of scaredy cats around us.
I know a friend who is dying to be a pilot and he is a very successful MD so money is not issue. He has a standing threat from his wife that if he ever gets into one of those small planes , she will leave him.
 
blueskyMD said:
True but nowadays there is more awareness . In the olden days people were willing to take more risk ( WW2 generation ? ) . Now there are lots of scaredy cats around us.
I know a friend who is dying to be a pilot and he is a very successful MD so money is not issue. He has a standing threat from his wife that if he ever gets into one of those small planes , she will leave him.
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I think the media/social media plays a big role in this. It either makes us believe the world is more dangerous than it is, or maybe it makes us realize how dangerous it really is. People seem more afraid of a generally safer world than they were when I was a kid. Or maybe because I was a kid I didn't realize it, but it seems like the news was different then.

On the other hand, I bet a few thousand years ago wives were telling their husbands "Don't you dare go wrestle that gator!" Men weren't any smarter back then, I reckon.
 
blueskyMD said:
True but nowadays there is more awareness . In the olden days people were willing to take more risk ( WW2 generation ? ) . Now there are lots of scaredy cats around us.
I know a friend who is dying to be a pilot and he is a very successful MD so money is not issue. He has a standing threat from his wife that if he ever gets into one of those small planes , she will leave him.
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Buy Cirrus...for the scaredy cat in all of us.
 
blueskyMD said:
True but nowadays there is more awareness . In the olden days people were willing to take more risk ( WW2 generation ? ) . Now there are lots of scaredy cats around us.
I know a friend who is dying to be a pilot and he is a very successful MD so money is not issue. He has a standing threat from his wife that if he ever gets into one of those small planes , she will leave him.
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Simple. Tell him to buy a BIG plane. :rolleyes:
 
Ted DuPuis said:
How you break up a PA23 in flight is beyond me. Thing is a tank and I flew the Aztec through all kinds of serious crap...
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That was my reaction also. Perhaps he became disoriented and lost control of it at altitude instead of the weather breaking it up?
 
blueskyMD said:
True but nowadays there is more awareness . In the olden days people were willing to take more risk ( WW2 generation ? ) . Now there are lots of scaredy cats around us.
I know a friend who is dying to be a pilot and he is a very successful MD so money is not issue. He has a standing threat from his wife that if he ever gets into one of those small planes , she will leave him.
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Time for a new wife...

I say that only half-jokingly. Other than him wanting to date another woman or sell the family's assets and move to a tent in a third-world country, I can't understand why someone would put up with being limited in their hobbies by their spouse if the funds are there.
 
GRG55 said:
That was my reaction also. Perhaps he became disoriented and lost control of it at altitude instead of the weather breaking it up?
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This is the more common scenario anyway.

Here's a story a coworker (former test pilot for a GA company in Wichita) told me. When doing icing tests, sometimes they'd have to fly through a thunderstorm to find icing. The company would often have several turboprops flying through really bad parts of thunderstorms to find icing. One day they broke three windshields (3 separate aircraft flying in the same storm) due to hail. At no point, though, did they ever have an in-flight breakup. Keep in mind these were trained test pilots who knew what they were doing and expected the rough ride, as such there wasn't a "WTF" panic at the turbulence.

None of us really knows what happens in those moments prior to an in-flight breakup what happened since there are never survivors to tell us, nor black boxes. But my guess is that virtually all of the in-flight breakups occur because the pilot yanked on the yoke too hard, and/or got disoriented and flipped the plane over, and then also having some overreaction. You probably have some level of flutter accidents caused by poorly maintained aircraft as well, but I bet those are far fewer than a pilot panicing and overstressing the airframe.
 
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