3rd Class Medical update/setback?

[flyingriki]

The final AMA vote, which took place just hours ago, was based on testimony from a variety of experts. Flying reader, pilot, physician and AMA delegate Dr. Dan McCoy, who participated in the process, told Flying there were just two experts who supported the adoption of the driver's license medical, himself and one other pilot, and that both the military and aerospace groups of the AMA strongly opposed the FAA's proposed rule.

The AMA vote is disturbing but not shocking. The association represents physicians, and many AMA members are also medical examiners. The income these physicians earn from giving FAA medical exams can represent a sizable percentage of their income, a situation they understandably don't want that to change. If they were acting in the best interests of their patients, however, they would ask such questions as these: (Flying's views are in parentheses.)


Read more at http://www.flyingmag.com/blogs/goin...-secret-3rd-class-medical#13zZ8G2iK0p0sT3u.99

 

[RJM62]

Meh. All professional groups are mainly concerned about their own self-interests. Why should doctors be any different?

-Rich

 

[Alexb2000]

The mechanism could work, but we have decided to make it a punitive thing vs. encouraging pilots to seek medical care. Just today at the airport I noticed two older pilots that used to fly normal light aircraft have bought light sports. I haven't spoken to them yet, but the song is always the same. Something happened that they knew would be disqualifying. So light sport here we come and just don't renew the medical. In terms of possible damage I don't think there is much difference between a V-tail and a CTLS.

As an aside I hold a Class A drivers license, I can drive an 80,000' truck 3' from a family in a KIA at 75 MPH without any form of medical. Doesn't make sense.

Thanks for posting, good article.

 

[RJM62]

The mechanism could work, but we have decided to make it a punitive thing vs. encouraging pilots to seek medical care. Just today at the airport I noticed two older pilots that used to fly normal light aircraft have bought light sports. I haven't spoken to them yet, but the song is always the same. Something happened that they knew would be disqualifying. So light sport here we come and just don't renew the medical. In terms of possible damage I don't think there is much difference between a V-tail and a CTLS.

As an aside I hold a Class A drivers license, I can drive an 80,000' truck 3' from a family in a KIA at 75 MPH without any form of medical. Doesn't make sense.

Thanks for posting, good article.

When did that change? I was under the impression that they'd made the DOT medical requirements tougher by weeding out some of the pencil whippers.

-Rich

 

[Alexb2000]

When did that change? I was under the impression that they'd made the DOT medical requirements tougher by weeding out some of the pencil whippers.

-Rich

Random drug testing program that is a joke, predictable timing, and you go into a bathroom alone and shut the door. Medicals that could be passed by anyone who fogs a mirror, seriously. I have never heard of someone failing.

Also, in my case if using the license for farm related activities I am exempt from the medical and drug testing in Texas. Either way it's a joke. We just had a guy plow into a car head on that had three prior DUI's. Technically it couldn't have happened, but it does all the time.

 

[Everskyward]

Random drug testing program that is a joke, predictable timing, and you go into a bathroom alone and shut the door. Medicals that could be passed by anyone who fogs a mirror, seriously. I have never heard of someone failing.

Pilots are subject to DOT random drug testing which is not frequent but is also not predictable. I know someone who failed, was given another chance because he claimed secondhand smoke, then about a year later failed again. Never would have guessed. Not someone who was either young or inexperienced and was also retired military.

 

[JimNtexas]

My understanding is that OSA in the trucking world is treated even more harshly than by the FAA. Is that correct?

 

[Alexb2000]

My understanding is that OSA in the trucking world is treated even more harshly than by the FAA. Is that correct?

Couldn't answer conclusively, but it wouldn't surprise me. Rest time, sleep disorders, etc. are a hot topic and tightly enforced because of so many accidents with drivers falling asleep.

 

[Jim Logajan]

Money seems an unlikely motivation for their vote - this looks like a mix of extreme paternalism and irrational fear. It sounds like the AMA members weren't interested in reviewing, or disregarded, the medical impairment history and statistics of U.S. ultralight, glider, balloon, and sport pilots or the recent Australian Driver License Medical.

 

[flyingron]

When did that change? I was under the impression that they'd made the DOT medical requirements tougher by weeding out some of the pencil whippers.

-Rich

They may have done that, but that doesn't mean that the CDL medical process is enforced any better. I regularly see wrist slaps in court for people without medical cards. Same as with people breaking medical restrictions on driver's licenses.

Two real nice, honor student kids, close friends of my daughter, were plowed down and killed by a dump drunk driver who fell asleep and flattened their pickup while it was stopped at a red light.

It's going to take a few more WALMART truckers etc... plowing into the back and killing some more big names before we see the hysteria shift form aviation to the roads.

 

[RJM62]

They may have done that, but that doesn't mean that the CDL medical process is enforced any better. I regularly see wrist slaps in court for people without medical cards. Same as with people breaking medical restrictions on driver's licenses.

Two real nice, honor student kids, close friends of my daughter, were plowed down and killed by a dump drunk driver who fell asleep and flattened their pickup while it was stopped at a red light.

It's going to take a few more WALMART truckers etc... plowing into the back and killing some more big names before we see the hysteria shift form aviation to the roads.

True. The extent to which the DOT medical card has any value at all has always depended on who the examiner was. If done properly, it was pretty thorough; but there were plenty of examiners who would sign off on anyone who had a pulse and who wasn't too blind (or stupid) to find their offices.

Still, in the couple of years before I turned in my CDL -- I was no longer using it and I couldn't be bothered going through the expense and rigmarole of renewing it -- DOT seemed to be doing some good things in terms of promoting driver health, as well as weeding out the pencil-whipping medical examiners.

Of course, there are no guarantees. My cousin Paul, who was a few years younger than me, died at the wheel of his truck of a heart attack a few days after renewing his medical card. He did manage to pull it over onto the shoulder before he checked out, but he was dead by the time the police arrived at the scene.

Nonetheless, I thought the medical exam requirement made more sense for commercial drivers than it does for private pilots. I could do a lot more damage with a truck than with a Cessna -- especially because I had Tank and Haz-Mat endorsements on my CDL. But then again, if you think about it in terms of total operators and overall potential for harm, a medical exam requirement for private drivers would make at least as much sense as is it does for private pilots, if not more.

Not that I'm trying to give the government any ideas, mind you.

-Rich

 

[Concorde]

The mechanism could work, but we have decided to make it a punitive thing vs. encouraging pilots to seek medical care. Just today at the airport I noticed two older pilots that used to fly normal light aircraft have bought light sports. I haven't spoken to them yet, but the song is always the same. Something happened that they knew would be disqualifying. So light sport here we come and just don't renew the medical. In terms of possible damage I don't think there is much difference between a V-tail and a CTLS.

As an aside I hold a Class A drivers license, I can drive an 80,000' truck 3' from a family in a KIA at 75 MPH without any form of medical. Doesn't make sense.

Thanks for posting, good article.

You have to have a CDL medical every 2 years in order to drive a truck however it's nothing like the PPL medical. Having a heart attack in a 80000 lbs truck can kill many more people than having it in a 172.

 

[steingar]

To a hammer everything looks like a nail. Fortunately there aren't too many MDs in Congress.

 

[Alexb2000]

You have to have a CDL medical every 2 years in order to drive a truck however it's nothing like the PPL medical. Having a heart attack in a 80000 lbs truck can kill many more people than having it in a 172.

Let me just offer some insight into the trucking business.

In DFW area for example with a PERFECT driving record insuring a tractor is at least $500 a month. That's money that many independents don't want to pay. SOOOOO…. they use temporary tags, the 30 day kind. In Texas you are allowed to operate during that 30 day period when you first purchase a tractor without the required documents, presumably so someone can earn money while they paperwork is prepared. This gets abused. Every rock or dirt yard has a guy parked out by the load line selling fake 30 day tags for $20. It's just a cardboard tag. Now someone can spend $20, drive without an authority, DOT numbers, insurance, etc. all for $20. That makes it really hard for the guys doing it right to compete.

Medicals drug screens are easy to get. You can buy fakes from the same guy for $5. OR you can go down south of town to one of those "clinics" and pay the $100 for a guaranteed pass medical and drug test done by someone without a medical license operating nefariously as a PA. These are the places that cater to immigrants and are far below a doc in the box. Everyone knows where these places are and their business is based on NEVER failing anyone for any reason.

Roadside inspections are done by cops usually in pickups. I watched as my trucks were pulled over in the same town several times per week. Each stop took about an hour for a full rundown. This was on a busy road with lots of truck traffic. I got ****ed and went down and talked to the cop, asking why we were getting so much attention. While we were talking I pointed out truck after truck with obvious safety violations and asked why didn't he stop them. He said he stops us because he knows we will be 100%. He is expected to stop 8 trucks a shift and if he stops one of those beaters he'll be there half the day, probably have to impound, etc. So he quit stopping us, but the point is enforcement is a joke. If any of you really knew how dangerous many of these intrastate trucks were you wouldn't drive.

 

[garyb]

If they're that dangerous, wouldn't there be carnage all over the highways?
Maybe this whole regulation/enforcement thing is an overreaction to a non existent problem.

 

[dans2992]

Bingo...

 

[flyingron]

If they're that dangerous, wouldn't there be carnage all over the highways?
Maybe this whole regulation/enforcement thing is an overreaction to a non existent problem.

There is.

The problem is until someone famous gets splattered, it's just a car accident as far as people are concerned. Over 5000 people are killed each year in truck accidents.

But let one person get killed by their own stupidity in aviation and it begets a whole round of legislation and regulation. Especially when you got some yahoo politician who wants to use it to advance his career.

Dumping on aviation is easy...trying to touch CARS, TV, or GUNS entails big political outcrying.

 

[Alexb2000]

Exactly, people want crap on the shelves at Walmart so trucking gets a pass. I will tell you from experience that one of the biggest problems on semi's is worn brakes. I would say 75% are not up to snuff. Yes, they get by downshifting, going easy on them etc. however when semi brakes quit working, they quit. I have been going 60 when that happened. I sailed through a red light 80k pounds, zero brakes, nothing I could do. I got incredibly lucky, but if anyone was in that intersection they would be dead. Car accidents are just not that exciting to the news, doesn't mean there isn't a problem.

 

[paflyer]

To a hammer everything looks like a nail. Fortunately there aren't too many MDs in Congress.

Unfortunately, it's mostly made up of lawyers, which is worse.

 

[CT4ME]

So they're saying they can predict, with accuracy, traumatic medical events, huh? How about if we fine each one $10k every time a person with a medical has a traumatic event (while flying or not).

 

[Henning]

I doubt the majority of AME's make anywhere near a significant portion of their income doing airman medicals, nor do I think a significant number of AMA members are AMEs. I do agree the AMA does not want to give up one red cent of doctor income, that's what they are after all, a financial lobby for doctors.

 

[Jaybird180]

Of course, there are no guarantees. My cousin Paul, who was a few years younger than me, died at the wheel of his truck of a heart attack a few days after renewing his medical card. He did manage to pull it over onto the shoulder before he checked out, but he was dead by the time the police arrived at the scene.

Nonetheless, I thought the medical exam requirement made more sense for commercial drivers than it does for private pilots. I could do a lot more damage with a truck than with a Cessna -- especially because I had Tank and Haz-Mat endorsements on my CDL. But then again, if you think about it in terms of total operators and overall potential for harm, a medical exam requirement for private drivers would make at least as much sense as is it does for private pilots, if not more.

Not that I'm trying to give the government any ideas, mind you.

-Rich

1- I'd vote for a system of periodic driver reviews just like we do BFRs.
2- I'd endorse your cousin for a posthumous award for duty and valor.

 

[RJM62]

1- I'd vote for a system of periodic driver reviews just like we do BFRs.
2- I'd endorse your cousin for a posthumous award for duty and valor.

Thanks. Paul was a good guy.

On the other thought...

I don't know about other states, but in New York, a person can pass their ordinary "Class D" road test in the morning; and legally drive any non-articulated, non-tanker vehicle with a MGVW of up to 28,000 pounds, or any passenger vehicle carrying fewer than 15 pax, that same afternoon, as long as they're not doing it for hire and they're not carrying HazMat. No medical, no experience in that particular vehicle, no special training, no nothing. They can just do it.

And yet somehow life goes on.

The reason, of course, is that just because a person can legally do something doesn't mean that they necessarily will. I've helped many people move their stuff in trucks that they could have legally driven themselves, merely because they knew that they were unqualified to do so. Most people are rational, and most people don't want to die or to kill others; therefore most people don't do things that they do not feel qualified to do -- even if the law allows them to.

It would be nice if pilots, for whom the bar to entry is much higher, and who have to demonstrate their skills every two years if they want to keep flying, were afforded the benefit of that same assumption.

-Rich

 

[Jaybird180]

You must not get out much.

 

[PPC1052]

The mechanism could work, but we have decided to make it a punitive thing vs. encouraging pilots to seek medical care. Just today at the airport I noticed two older pilots that used to fly normal light aircraft have bought light sports. I haven't spoken to them yet, but the song is always the same. Something happened that they knew would be disqualifying. So light sport here we come and just don't renew the medical.

I am sure that is true. But what galls me is when someone has a non-disqualifying issue that puts them in special issuance territory, and it takes 8 months out of the 1 year cycle to get approved before they have to start again. No wonder those guys give up go light sport.