3rd class help

[notrosh]

Hey all,

I am going for my private pilots license. Getting close to soloing....hopefully. I am in the process of getting my 3rd class medical.

I have been taking Zoloft (50mg) for quite a while....greater than 4 years. Albeit, I don't take it very regularly and don't think I need it. I keep taking it because well...not really sure why I keep taking it. My medical record says the following: Major depressive disorder, single episode, mild. Although I would say it was more for anxiety, but the record says differently.

I have submitted my application but I have NOT seen the AME yet. I want to at all costs avoid being deferred or having to go through a HIMS. Mainly because of the time and the money.

Here is my question: If I go to the doc will I definitely be deferred by saying that I take Zoloft or is it up to the doctor administering the examination to determine that?

Follow up question/comment: If I am definitely going to be deferred I will just quit taking the medication and let the application expire in 60 days. After 60 days I will create a new application without the medication and go from there. Will this be ok?

Basically, I am trying to avoid the abyss of government bureaucracy.

Thanks for any advice

 

[Stegoo_86]

I'm not a doctor or medical professional.

Hey there,

I'm going through something similar, sorry to say but either way, it's going to be annoying. As I've come to learn from some great members here, it's the "Underlying Condition" that matters most to the FAA. Your AME MUST report that you take an SSRI regardless of what they personally believe. Your discontinuance strategy may work, but you'll likely need to explain and "Prove" why you were on it in the first place. They'll also have to confirm that your stable while being off the medication, and a Board Certified Phycistris will have to write out a letter and form to provide this information.

 

[murphey]

0) Do NOT do anything with your MedXpress - let it expire after 60 days
1) Do NOT go for a class 3
2) Make an appointment with the AME for a CONSULT
if they won't do a consult, thank them and find another AME who will do a consult
3) Talk with the AME (during the CONSULT) about what documentation you'll need for the class 3
4) If you can't find an AME, contact Dr Bruce Chien aeromedicaldoc.com ---he wrote the FAA specs on SSRI
5) Do NOT go for a class 3 until #3 and #4 are complete.

 

[lbfjrmd]

your course is set - it will be expensive and complicated - you are going to have to be evaluated for the reason you were Rx an SSRI whether you keep taking it or not.

 

[AggieMike88]

For the AME consult…

1. Choose an AME who has a actual positive reputation for helping applicants with your situation.
2. Chose an AME who will act as your guide and advocate throughout the process. This means someone who will talk to your doctors as needed and cattle prod OKC reviewers when logjams happen.
   
3. Choose an AME who has a track record of successfully awarding certifications once the hard work and patience of both of you has been done correctly.

Not every AME is like this. Choosing wisely will go a long way to reducing your frustration.

 

[notrosh]

Thanks for the great advice.

Does the FAA pull your medical records? How would they know you were on the medication if you don't list it and it doesn't show up on a urine test? Especially after the previous application has vanished into the ether?

Really just curious at this point...

Thanks....

 

[RussS]

Thanks for the great advice.

Does the FAA pull your medical records? How would they know you were on the medication if you don't list it and it doesn't show up on a urine test? Especially after the previous application has vanished into the ether?

Really just curious at this point...

Thanks....

CAN the FAA pull your records?....you betcha! WILL the FAA pull your records? Not likely out of the blue. BUT...have an incident that inclines them to take a look and have them find out you withheld the diagnosis....I believe the proper legal phraseology is "You're F'd".

That's a game of Russian Roulette you don't want to play. Although, I completely understand the thought; knowing that going about it the proper way will be a nightmare.

Im sorry to say, no easy way through this one. Possible, yes. Easy, no.

 

[AggieMike88]

Does the FAA pull your medical records?

No. You will provide the needed or requested records. This is partially so that the correct records are presented. This keeps the process moving instead of weighing it down with unnecessary information.

If the FAA needs information or documentation not yet in the file, they will send you a letter with specific details of what they want

How would they know you were on the medication if you don't list it and it doesn't show up on a urine test? Especially after the previous application has vanished into the ether?

If you omit telling them on the application they won’t know. But then you may be guilty of lying on a federal form.

While the medication section of the application asks for prescription medications currently in use, the medical history starts of “Have you ever in your LIFE…” and you are compelled to answer truthfully.

Answering yes to something will then require providing additional detail. So if answering yes to psychological condition, details so of what, when, and treatment will be needed. This may include what medications, dosages, when you took them, and for how long did you take them.

Choosing to completely hide a checkered medical past isn’t a good idea. If there was ever cause for the FAA to go looking (such as a severe incident or any sort of accident), and the FAA found out your hidden medical secret, you would likely face suspension of your certificate, revocation of your certificate, or worse. In such situation, you will also have wasted all that money used to obtain, improve, and enjoy your certificate.

Just like that poster in Kindergarten, honesty is the best policy

 

[AggieMike88]

And what @RussS said too!

 

[RussS]

And let me say that this is yet ANOTHER complete failure of a flight school or flight instructor! There is no reason you should be close to solo BEFORE knowing this would be an issue. It makes me sick to see this.

 

[AggieMike88]

And let me say that this is yet ANOTHER complete failure of a flight school or flight instructor! There is no reason you should be close to solo BEFORE knowing this would be an issue. It makes me sick to see this.

Which is why I make respectful inquiries related to medical certification during initial meetup and first lesson. And provide info and resources to obtain the medical certification early on.

 

[RussS]

Which is why I make respectful inquiries related to medical certification during initial meetup and first lesson. And provide info and resources to obtain the medical certification early on.

I couldn’t agree with that approach more! I am currently training for my CFI and have begun getting my lesson plans together...I fully intend on making the medical a big deal in my teaching...which I feel is almost completely brushed aside right now.

 

[notrosh]

Thanks for all the great advice....Also in the defense of the flight school. They absolutely told me to do this during my intro flight. So it's really all on me.

So I guess my next step is to make an appointment with a HIMS AME to get the ball rolling?

Thanks,

-n

 

[RussS]

Definitely need a HIMS AME and make sure its just a consult!

 

[notrosh]

Why just a consult? If I definitely have to go down that road why not just go...
What benefit does the consult provide?
I feel I have missed something here...
please advise...

Thanks,
-n

 

[RussS]

Once you open the can, it can't be shut. Even if you are going all the way, you will encounter far more hurdles, wait times, hurt, sadness, anguish, and whatever other negative adjective you can think of by submitting the MedXpress without the proper backing documents. A consult will let you know what documents you will likely need and you can then go gather them...get whatever tests you will need...and submit everything in one lump sum package to the FAA. Lets say you just go right now and get deferred....
-FAA will send you a letter of what they want in 4-8 weeks (or more)
-You will have 60 days to provide all of that information from the day they wrote the letter...not when you got it
-There is little chance you will be able to obtain all needed documents and get them vetted and submitted to the FAA in that 60 days
- you can request one extension which will still not be enough
-your medical will go from deferred to denied....thats bad.

Lets just say for argument sake you take the approach of "lets just see what the FAA requests"
you will still be waiting the 8 weeks for the initial request, and if you actually can get them what they want in the 60 days, they will ask for more. And then more again. You will spend FAR less time starting out with a consult from an experienced AME who can help you gather the likely required tests, reports, ect. (this is where experience matters) and submitting everything in one shot at the beginning.

Mine started with a deferral because of issues I didn't know would be an issue. From that point, I did everything the "fast" way and it still took me 7 months. I would probably still be plying back and forth with the FAA had I done the "just see what they request" approach.

 

[DFH65]

Why just a consult? If I definitely have to go down that road why not just go...
What benefit does the consult provide?
I feel I have missed something here...
please advise...

Thanks,
-n

If you submit your medexpress and the FAA in their infinite wisdom decides you can not get a medical and you are denied because of your "depression" you can not fly even LSA.

If the AME is consulting and they say "you better not try to get a medical I see no way they will give you one." Then at least you can fly LSA. Once you are denied you are denied.

 

[AggieMike88]

Why just a consult? If I definitely have to go down that road why not just go...
What benefit does the consult provide?
I feel I have missed something here...
please advise...

Thanks,
-n

A consultation is a discussion between you and medical doctor that has some level of expertise in aviation medicine. Therefore, Doctor Patient Privilege applies and anything discussed cannot be disclosed without your (or your medical proxy's) permission. It is not an official FAA exam

Therefore, the FAA is told nothing about your current medical status, why it's a Gordian knot, and what plans might be needed to un-knot it (besides cleaving with a sword).

An official FAA examination involves filling out the medical certificate application form, FAA Form 8500-8, via the online MedXpress system, and submitting to an examination by an AME.

With the official exam, the doctor is not working for you, he or she is working for the FAA. The result of the examination is one of three outcomes: issue the certificate, deny, or defer. Denial means you are dead in the water and may have not recourse or pathway to the sky. Deferral means the AME finds nothing to deny you, but the examination results in him needing to send it to someone "higher than his pay grade" for the decision. Deferral can also mean long delays, lots of back and forth with information requests and submissions, and did I mention very long delays?

Consultation helps to avoid denials and extremely long deferrals.

Consultation also helps to preserve your opportunities to seek other paths to the sky while you sort out the main issue (aka, you retain privileges to fly as a Sport Pilot)


A significant mantra here is never, never, never, ever go to your official FAA examination until you are absotootley beyond 100% sure that your medical will be issued. If there is any uncertainty, seek out a consultation.

 

[PaulS]

OP, you really need to research this, understand if you do it correctly and are deemed eligible, it will take months and months, if you just go to the exam with out researching it, it will take much longer.

 

[Stegoo_86]

Curious Question,

How on earth is the FAA digging up all this information from an aviator's childhood? I'm in my 30s now and family doctors prescribing meds/or giving out ADHD and ADD diagnoses was like poping pez dispensers in the 90's. I went through all sorts of stuff that I was misdiagnosed with, but I was able to pass my medical in the early 2000s. Granted I wasn't on anything during that time, I was 18 and just filled the paperwork with my parents. Since then I have no track or idea where any of that stuff is, but it seems like all of that can somehow magically appear in the present. What's going on with this, am I just being naive?

 

[RussS]

In all honesty they would need to dig DEEP to find anything on childhood....assuming a different dr was treating. A lot of dr offices only keep records for so many years after the patient stops going there...especially prior to the digital world. Maybe still available through insurance somewhere? That’s a deep hole and they would need reallllly good reason to dig for it. Just my opinion.

 

[Stegoo_86]

In all honesty they would need to dig DEEP to find anything on childhood....assuming a different dr was treating. A lot of dr offices only keep records for so many years after the patient stops going there...especially prior to the digital world. Maybe still available through insurance somewhere? That’s a deep hole and they would need reallllly good reason to dig for it. Just my opinion.

That's what I would assume to, but I keep reading threads where an applicant is deferred, they solve the initial issue, but then the FAA comes back with some obscure childhood diagnosis. I mean, pretty much throughout my early 20s I thought I was 10 ft tall and bulletproof, I never went to a doctor unless I absolutely had to. Maybe I'm just reading into this too much lol.

 

[notrosh]

Hey everyone...

Thanks for all the advice here.

I am going to start with an appointment at a HIMS AME and see what they say. After that I will weigh all options and go from there. Admittedly, I'm a little miffed by all the rigmarole for something like this, but those are the rules you have to play by. I will reply back once I have more information....

Thanks,

-n

 

[SoCal 182 Driver]

And let me say that this is yet ANOTHER complete failure of a flight school or flight instructor! There is no reason you should be close to solo BEFORE knowing this would be an issue. It makes me sick to see this.

Exactly. I think flight schools should be required to have students get their medicals before training commences, so that if there are any show-stoppers, the student hasn't invested thousands of dollars in training, and their time, only to be denied because of a medical glitch.

 

[AggieMike88]

Exactly. I think flight schools should be required to have students get their medicals before training commences, so that if there are any show-stoppers, the student hasn't invested thousands of dollars in training, and their time, only to be denied because of a medical glitch.

From the various threads on r/flying, just about all of the Part 141's require medical before start. And some of the bigger Part 61's too.

However, telling the applicant to "get your first class medical first, then come back to finish application and signing up" isn't solving the problem that you, me, and Russ are talking about.

Just like the "wait before solo" crowd that encounters the problem due to the school or CFI not explaining the process, now the problem is exacerbated because the youngling hasn't even talked to anyone other than the admissions office and they bomb into the AME and get drop kicked into deferral hell.


What really needs to exist is one of those online intelligent interview systems like TurboTax that would ask the padawan questions based on the 8500-8 (and deeper on any yes answers). Then based on the input, provide some basic "issue, defer, deny" details, and if defer, why defer, and what you're facing to achieve the issuance.

 

[bbchien]

Rshermer knows about what he speaks....(!)

 

[mcmanigle]

That's what I would assume to, but I keep reading threads where an applicant is deferred, they solve the initial issue, but then the FAA comes back with some obscure childhood diagnosis. I mean, pretty much throughout my early 20s I thought I was 10 ft tall and bulletproof, I never went to a doctor unless I absolutely had to. Maybe I'm just reading into this too much lol.

Depends what you mean by "childhood" and how long ago childhood was. It seems like these days, a lot of these super weird long-ago discoveries either come from:
1. Electronic medical records that keep a "problem list" indefinitely. I routinely run into teenagers who have "gestational diabetes of mother affecting fetus" in their "problem list". If it follows them that long, it will probably be on there forever. And that goes for anything that's happened to you since electronic medical records became widespread / used by your doctor or healthcare system (2010s for many).
2. Pharmacy records, which often last longer and are more centrally stored than medical records (semi-historically, anyway). If you were dispensed methylphenidate at some point in your life, it's pretty hard to argue you were never diagnosed with ADHD (and if you try to argue that, they will put the burden on you to prove it by finding more records).

In my opinion (which is not even a little bit official) if you were legitimately young and a legitimately long time has passed, it's pretty reasonable that you could have forgotten something. I don't think anyone would convict a 30 year-old from not knowing that they took a med when they were 12 years old for ADHD if they then stopped after 3 months and never took it again or had extra time for tests based on it, etc. So you would likely lose your medical if that came to light, but you wouldn't have all of the problems around being labeled a falsifier.

I suspect that any meds / diagnoses that persisted through adulthood, or were recently enough (diagnosis at 16 years old and now you're 18, or diagnosis at 20 years old and now you're 40) you'd have a much harder time arguing you "just forgot about it."