3rd Class Deferrment - SSRI use

[pauliedi]

I started flying again after an 18 year hiatus. I have 41 hours and I plan to get my private pilots license.

I just had a visit with an AME for my third class med cert. I have been taking SSRIs since 2011 for anxiety. I started with Cymbalta and switched to Lexipro a year ago. The Lexipro was augmented with buspirone to help improve its effectiveness. The doctor told me I would be deferred and told me to seek out a HIPS AME. He also told me to stop my buspirone as it was on the banned list.

I stopped my buspirone and continue to take Lexipro 20mg daily. I spoke to the HIPS AME and she told me it is will run me about $4,000 for psyc evaluation and testing. In addition this can take months and it will include a very invasive medical history review. What other options are there? Are there any advocates I can reach out to - to ensure I am being treated fairly? I feel like the system is beating me into submission. Please help!

 

[Matthew]

SSRI is a big deal.

And it's a big deal because you started the process. Once you start the medical exam, it can only end one of two ways - issued or denied. The "deferral" means that the AME has turned it over to FAA medical, a couple pay-grades up the chain, for them to make the final decision.

The AME probably told you correctly - and the HIMS doc did too.

Someone will be along soon with the name and email of an AME that "wrote the book" on this and encourage you to contact him for advice.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

Yes, the system is beating you in to submission. That's the way it is. You are now in the position of having been labeled as undesireable by the FAA and now it is up to you to prove that you are OK and all the medication was just a big mistake. The FAA doesn't care how much it costs, or if any of it is really medically necessary or not. It's the FAA's ball and playing field...

Your options are pretty much to submit to the system or to not fly as PIC again (except gliders and part 103). And, since you have now been rejected for a medical, options like sport pilot (and likely any that may come up as part of "medical reform") are off the table for you unless you can get through the process successfully at least once.

 

[Brad Z]

What other options are there?

Ultralights, balloons, gliders. Sport Pilot is out of the question as your medical has been deferred and will be ultimately denied if you opt no to proceed with the testing.

Are there any advocates I can reach out to - to ensure I am being treated fairly?

Br. Bruce Chien is widely recommended for this type of medical certification issue. I'm not sure that he'll be able to tell you anything different from what the Docs you've spoken to have told you, though.

I feel like the system is beating me into submission. Please help!

Sorry. Things like ADHD and meds and SSRIs are given out so freely these days that no one gives a second thought to them. Unfortunately, the FAA considers inattentive, depressed, and anxious people to be unsafe pilots. Now it's your opportunity to prove them otherwise (albeit at a rather hefty fee). Good luck.

 

[Matthew]

I started flying again after an 18 year hiatus. I have 41 hours and I plan to get my private pilots license.

I just had a visit with an AME for my third class med cert. I have been taking SSRIs since 2011 for anxiety. I started with Cymbalta and switched to Lexipro a year ago. The Lexipro was augmented with buspirone to help improve its effectiveness. The doctor told me I would be deferred and told me to seek out a HIPS AME. He also told me to stop my buspirone as it was on the banned list.

I stopped my buspirone and continue to take Lexipro 20mg daily. I spoke to the HIPS AME and she told me it is will run me about $4,000 for psyc evaluation and testing. In addition this can take months and it will include a very invasive medical history review. What other options are there? Are there any advocates I can reach out to - to ensure I am being treated fairly? I feel like the system is beating me into submission. Please help!

OK - I thought someone would have posted this by now:

Dr Bruce Chien
http://www.aeromedicaldoc.com/

He's "the guy". Send him an email or phone call and do a couple things: 1) give him the facts, 2) don't leave anything out.

 

[dans2992]

I understand that sport pilot is out of the question, but how is this enforced? If they ramp-check a sport pilot, he would have no medical to show....?

 

[AggieMike88]

OK - I thought someone would have posted this by now:

Dr Bruce Chien
http://www.aeromedicaldoc.com/

He's "the guy". Send him an email or phone call and do a couple things: 1) give him all the facts, 2) don't leave anything out.

3) Don't lie.

If certification for your situation can be done, Dr. Chien is the right AME and advocate. But if he gets a whiff that you're being disingenuous with him, he will drop you like third period french and then your aquatic water fowl will be well and truly cooked.

 

[AggieMike88]

I understand that sport pilot is out of the question, but how is this enforced? If they ramp-check a sport pilot, he would have no medical to show....?

Likely they would have electronic access to the correct database. Querying with information that identifies the pilot could find an entry that application was made and then denied.

 

[Matthew]

Doesn't the SP still have a certificate? You probably can't get that if you've been denied. But if you've been denied AFTER you got it, yeah, they'll likely just make a quick phone call.

Gliders also have a PP certificate.

 

[RJM62]

OK - I thought someone would have posted this by now:

Dr Bruce Chien
http://www.aeromedicaldoc.com/

He's "the guy". Send him an email or phone call and do a couple things: 1) give him the facts, 2) don't leave anything out.

Just so you understand why Bruce is "the guy," he not only wrote the FAA's SSRI protocol, but he has massive credibility with them. His name on a form means something. He also works hard for his airmen.

But whatever you do, don't bull**** him. He has no tolerance for bovine excrement.

Rich

 

[poadeleted20]

I understand that sport pilot is out of the question, but how is this enforced? If they ramp-check a sport pilot, he would have no medical to show....?

When you apply for a Sport Pilot certificate, and the database shows you were denied a medical, your application for Sport Pilot will be rejected, and they will likely initiate an enforcement action for violation of 14 CFR 61.23(c)(2)(iii) for any Student Sport Pilot solo flying done since the denial. If you already have your pilot certificate, the first interaction you have with the FAA for any reason will uncover your status and result in the same enforcement action process for any flying as PIC since the denial. As for ramp checks, sometimes the Inspector checks the database for your certificate status, and that would uncover the denial on the spot, with the same results.

In addition, if you apply for aviation insurance (aircraft or non-owned), you will either have to lie (which will invalidate the policy) or be denied. Any aviation insurance you currently have will also be invalidated.

Of course, if you can stay completely off the FAA's radar, and you don't care about insurance coverage, you can probably get away with it. Moving to northern Alaska would probably be a good idea to accomplish that that.

 

[Ravioli]

Slightly off topic but I notice that every time someone is referred to Dr. Bruce it is accompanied by "don't lie"

What's up with that? I'd like to be added to the "Don't lie to him" list. Is there an application somewhere?

 

[poadeleted20]

Slightly off topic but I notice that every time someone is referred to Dr. Bruce it is accompanied by "don't lie"

What's up with that? I'd like to be added to the "Don't lie to him" list. Is there an application somewhere?

What's up is that if Bruce ever catches you in a lie, evasion, or concealment of a relevant fact, he will drop you like a hot rock and refuse to have any further dealings with you, and you'll have to start all over from scratch with another practitioner who will probably be less knowledgeable about difficult aeromedical certifications.

 

[libby2cm]

What's up is that if Bruce ever catches you in a lie, evasion, or concealment of a relevant fact, he will drop you like a hot rock and refuse to have any further dealings with you, and you'll have to start all over from scratch with another practitioner who will probably be less knowledgeable about difficult aeromedical certifications.

Yup... In the docs defense, his a$$ is on the line, so if you lie, you risk his cert and credibility, which I wouldn't let some rogue do to me either.

 

[libby2cm]

I started flying again after an 18 year hiatus. I have 41 hours and I plan to get my private pilots license.

I just had a visit with an AME for my third class med cert. I have been taking SSRIs since 2011 for anxiety. I started with Cymbalta and switched to Lexipro a year ago. The Lexipro was augmented with buspirone to help improve its effectiveness. The doctor told me I would be deferred and told me to seek out a HIPS AME. He also told me to stop my buspirone as it was on the banned list.

I stopped my buspirone and continue to take Lexipro 20mg daily. I spoke to the HIPS AME and she told me it is will run me about $4,000 for psyc evaluation and testing. In addition this can take months and it will include a very invasive medical history review. What other options are there? Are there any advocates I can reach out to - to ensure I am being treated fairly? I feel like the system is beating me into submission. Please help!

Yep, you are screwed now pretty much. Should have done some research before applying for medical like I did and stay the hell away from an AME, and hope medical reform happens. I've been waiting 12 years, similar situation.

But, since you already applied, it's going to be very hard, and expensive, to even get an SI with a history of recent multiple psychotropic drug use. So, even after paying the $4000 for testing, it's a crap shoot as to whether they will grant you an SI. Is it archaic and stupid how behind the times 3rd class medical requirements are? Yes. Is it discriminatory? Probably. But, it's the government. Prior to submitting for a medical, you had the (ill advised) option of lying, but they know now. Plus, lying to the FAA is akin to lying to the IRS.. It's all fun until you get caught.

Sorry.. But good luck!

 

[Ravioli]

My point is that nobody should lie, evade, or conceal facts in ANY of their dealings.

It's odd to me that it is consistently stated in regards to the good doctor, implying that dishonesty is the expected norm.

Disclaimer: I don't know the Dr, the OP, or the contributors to the thread. Mostly just a comment on the state of our society's expectations of each other.

 

[RJM62]

My point is that nobody should lie, evade, or conceal facts in ANY of their dealings.

It's odd to me that it is consistently stated in regards to the good doctor, implying that dishonesty is the expected norm.

Disclaimer: I don't know the Dr, the OP, or the contributors to the thread. Mostly just a comment on the state of our society's expectations of each other.

No argument there. It's just that Bruce has made it abundantly clear by his words and actions that he will bend over backwards and do anything he possibly can to help airmen who are honest and up-front with him, but he will do absolutely nothing to help those who aren't. It's good for a poster to know that before they contact the good doctor so they can reflect upon their situation and make sure they disclose all the facts that are even remotely relevant to their case.

Rich

 

[EminiTrader]

I remember talking to Bruce a couple years ago as a consultant... He told me straight up he will do all he can for anybody but be completely candid. As a consultant you have no worries he said

He said via email .. "many exams end with "oh by the way..."....

I honestly wasnt sure if I could get my 3rd class so I consulted with him first - turned out ok. but always good to consult first.

OP hasnt even responded - I think he knows he's DOA with his medical... too bad. but is what it is..

 

[F01LA]

My point is that nobody should lie, evade, or conceal facts in ANY of their dealings.

It's odd to me that it is consistently stated in regards to the good doctor, implying that dishonesty is the expected norm.

Disclaimer: I don't know the Dr, the OP, or the contributors to the thread. Mostly just a comment on the state of our society's expectations of each other.

Try this: Get a group of pilots together. It helps if several of them are over 60. Talk with them for awhile and get a feel about how honest and trustworthy they are. Hopefully you've got a group of decent, "Your word is your bond" types. Now ask them about FAA medicals. There's a good chance one or more will say something to the effect of "What the FAA doesn't know doesn't hurt them.."

FWIW, I had to go to a great deal of trouble and expense by choosing to tell the truth on my medical. The good news: I don't have to be worrying and looking over my shoulder the next 30 or 40 years.

 

[Matthew]

Slightly off topic but I notice that every time someone is referred to Dr. Bruce it is accompanied by "don't lie"

What's up with that? I'd like to be added to the "Don't lie to him" list. Is there an application somewhere?

He's worked very hard to get a reputation within FAA that allows him access to phone numbers that other AMEs don't have. He's also worked very hard to earn a reputation as a pilot advocate. This is a tightrope in some ways - he does have to represent the interests of FAA, but he does balance that with an attitude of looking out for the pilot, too.

Giving him partial facts, or trying to deceive him or yourself, puts him in a bad position.

 

[exncsurfer]

I remember talking to Bruce a couple years ago as a consultant... He told me straight up he will do all he can for anybody but be completely candid. As a consultant you have no worries he said

He said via email .. "many exams end with "oh by the way..."....

I honestly wasnt sure if I could get my 3rd class so I consulted with him first - turned out ok. but always good to consult first.

OP hasnt even responded - I think he knows he's DOA with his medical... too bad. but is what it is..

Why can't more AME's be like this? I called one yesterday with the intent of reviewing my situation prior to scheduling the exam. His nurse assistant was so confused and gave me the canned answer, we can't see you till you submit the form and give us the numbers. I tried to explain the reasoning but I was talking to a robot. 'Yea, no, we don't do that'.