310 Cal to Hawaii - *Almost* - Then Ditches

Re: Ditched in Ocean (Out of Gas)

Geico266 said:
He knew he was in trouble 500 miles out (more than likely WAY before that). I think he is flying IO-520s consuming 15GPH each = 30 GPH and he is going 160 knots? Cut one engine and you are down to 15 GPH and your speed reduces to 120 knots?

I am not trying to second guess the guy, just talk about options that might help someone else.

Worth a shot? I am not a twin driver so I am talking out my tail feathers. (as usual ;)) :D
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I think your numbers are a bit off. I'd expect to see something closer to 175-180 KTAS on 24-28 GPH (depending on the mixture) and when you go to one you have to raise the power on the good engine which will increase the consumption to more than you'd have per engine with both running. But even more important, for long ferry legs it's normal to operate at max range speed which would be around 120 KIAS in an 310 and I think it's going to require more fuel to fly that same speed on one than on two.
 
Gee, nobody has yet commented on the FlightAware history of this airplane. Take a look! On October 5th he started a trip KOAK -> Hilo and turned around after an hour. Something wasn't right. Then his next attempt is from MRY? Maybe he had a tank failure the first time, or maybe the ferry tanks did not give him enough reserve so he decided to try again from MRY? Gonna be interesting to see the NTSB reports!
 
rlebel said:
Gee, nobody has yet commented on the FlightAware history of this airplane. Take a look! On October 5th he started a trip KOAK -> Hilo and turned around after an hour. Something wasn't right. Then his next attempt is from MRY? Maybe he had a tank failure the first time, or maybe the ferry tanks did not give him enough reserve so he decided to try again from MRY? Gonna be interesting to see the NTSB reports!
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According to the AOPA flight planner, MRY is 8 nm closer than OAK: 2016 vs 2024. LLR would have been even closer, at 1998. Looks like he might have made it from there.

One thing that the flight planner shows is no winds aloft information for about the middle third of the route. :yikes:
 
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Brian and I planned the leg to Hawaii together - he had ferry tank fuel leak problems for three days prior to his departure and was delayed because of this. I was going to fly a slower aircraft, leave earlier, he would have overtaken me on the way and we would meet in Hawaii. I had an IFR plan filed for 7am on Wednesday the 5 October MRY to PHTO.
Brian did not miscalculate the fuel; he radioed when he switched to main tanks and realised that the ferry tanks are empty prematurely.
I detected a problem with my plane before leaving and cancelled my IFR plan and the flight - unfortunately my email reached to him after he had already left; I would have ditched my plane half way to Hawaii if I left.
 
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Re: Ditched in Ocean (Out of Gas)

Geico266 said:
500 miles out, you know you are in fuel management trouble, why not feather one prop and run on one engine? All he needed was 30 mins of fuel right? Worth a try? :confused:

The pilot did a great job of getting the plane on the water without cartwheeling or nose over. Notice how he kept flying the plane even though he is hitting the water? :yesnod:
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If he did that he would have put it in the water way before he did. Shutting one down and running on one will not extend the range - it will shorten it.

You're going to be burning a LOT more gas on that one engine suddenly. You've also got a lot of drag on one side of the airplane that isn't producing any thrust. Depending on weight you may have to descend to a lower less efficient altitude. Etc. Etc.
 
oflorica said:
Brian and I planned the leg to Hawaii together - he had ferry tank fuel leak problems for three days prior to his departure and was delayed because of this. I was going to fly a slower aircraft, leave earlier, he would have overtaken me on the way and we would meet in Hawaii. I had an IFR plan filed for 7am on Wednesday the 5 October MRY to PHTO.
Brian did not miscalculate the fuel; he radioed when he switched to main tanks and realised that the ferry tanks are empty prematurely.
I detected a problem with my plane before leaving and cancelled my IFR plan and the flight - unfortunately my email reached to him after he had already left; I would have ditched my plane half way to Hawaii if I left.
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Finally some good info. Thanks for bringing some reality to this thread.
 
Re: Ditched in Ocean (Out of Gas)

jesse said:
If he did that he would have put it in the water way before he did. Shutting one down and running on one will not extend the range - it will shorten it.

You're going to be burning a LOT more gas on that one engine suddenly. You've also got a lot of drag on one side of the airplane that isn't producing any thrust. Depending on weight you may have to descend to a lower less efficient altitude. Etc. Etc.
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Operating under the presumption that the pilot here was skilled, experienced and conservative in his planning and operation, I am assuming that the ferry tank must have leaked again, and that this discovery was made too late to return.
 
oflorica said:
Brian and I planned the leg to Hawaii together - he had ferry tank fuel leak problems for three days prior to his departure and was delayed because of this. I was going to fly a slower aircraft, leave earlier, he would have overtaken me on the way and we would meet in Hawaii. I had an IFR plan filed for 7am on Wednesday the 5 October MRY to PHTO.
Brian did not miscalculate the fuel; he radioed when he switched to main tanks and realised that the ferry tanks are empty prematurely.
I detected a problem with my plane before leaving and cancelled my IFR plan and the flight - unfortunately my email reached to him after he had already left; I would have ditched my plane half way to Hawaii if I left.
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Thanks for the post! Explains a lot. Seems folks were making all sorts of other assumptions. Glad he is O.K. Some of these ferry tank aux.fuel rigs are a challenge. Hats off to you and your friend.

Best,

Dave
 
These kinds of stories always intrigue me. Are these planes being purchase by someone over there? Are the people moving out there?

Would it be reasonably inexpensive to disassemble the aircraft and have it reassembled at the destination? Certainly the high risk factor would not be present. Adding ferry tanks to an existing installation is quite often frought with problems, from stories I have read. Of course, you rarely read about the successful stories.

Just trying to justify the risk as opposed to the much safer options.
 
Cost is the main reason. Airplanes are good at traveling long distances so just loading them up with fuel is a good way to transport them. Ferry operations have a good safety record (otherwise insurance would never happen) and usually go off without a hitch. Sure they are doing some pretty crazy stuff but this is offset by a (usually) very experienced pilot in combination with a careful preflight planning and maintenance.
 
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