310 Cal to Hawaii - *Almost* - Then Ditches

SCCutler

SCCutler

Touchdown! Greaser!
Joined
Feb 27, 2005
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Fredericksburg, Texas (T82) and Dallas (ADS)
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Spike Cutler
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T82
Looks like the link got updated after you posted. Says the pilot is ok.

The Coast guard says the pilot was standing on the wing of the plane when rescuers got to him and he is okay
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So I'm guessing if he had gone just a bit ... slower? He might have stretched it?

That sucks, what an epic flight too. Glad he is okay and can try again... after all, 310s are practically free these days.. one can afford to litter the sea with them. :D
 
Great ditching on the video. Glad the pilot's ok, but sucks to lose a plane.
 
Challenged said:
He did a great job with ditching. He did not do a great job with flight planning.
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Seeing as he knew about 90 minutes prior to the ditching that he wouldn't make it, it could very well be that he still had enough fuel, but couldn't get it to the engines. More than one plane has ended up short in those cases. I know of one guy who had to ditch a C-185 mid Pacific. I know of another person who almost found themselves in that position, but managed to get the fuel flowing from the tank.
 
LDJones said:
Wow. How much would it suck to fly for umpteen hours over water, then, with land in sight, hear the engines go silent??
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Not as much as it would suck to fly for umpteen hours and have the engines go silent with NO land or help in sight!
 
So, how can a 310 expect to cover 2000+ miles? I thought its range was closer to 1000.
 
zaitcev said:
So, how can a 310 expect to cover 2000+ miles? I thought its range was closer to 1000.
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I'm guessing ferry tanks- one can get permission from the FAA (or whoever) to add tanks to increase range, sometimes enough fuel to exceed the certified gross weight for the plane. Any number of people on this board know more about it than I.
 
Re: Ditched in Ocean (Out of Gas)

It can happen much easier than you think on a flight like that,even if it turns out he was not losing fuel or having problems with a tank . He recognized the situation 500 miles out. This flight was conducted by a ferry company,not by some student pilot. No options remain past the point of no return.

Amazing how the guy is being crucified by the media and on the internet....he handled the situation as well as he could.
 
Re: Ditched in Ocean (Out of Gas)

That's an extremely long flight for a piston engine airplane and even a small miscalculation or adverse wind could prove significant. He almost made it to land. Glad they pulled him out okay.
 
Re: Ditched in Ocean (Out of Gas)

Witmo said:
That's an extremely long flight for a piston engine airplane and even a small miscalculation or adverse wind could prove significant. He almost made it to land. Glad they pulled him out okay.
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Cool I have a 76 C-150M as well.
 
Cap'n Jack said:
I'm guessing ferry tanks- one can get permission from the FAA (or whoever) to add tanks to increase range, sometimes enough fuel to exceed the certified gross weight for the plane. Any number of people on this board know more about it than I.
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Yeah. You're allowed a certain percentage over gross weight for ferry tank installation. It's been a few years, but I do remember something like that. I'll bet that all of the passenge seats were removed and folded up and stacked in the baggage compartment. The rest of the cabin would be filled with custom fitted tanks with very little room for the pilot.
 
I do recall one instance of a plane running out of fuel because the line attendant put the caps back on with the vents facing rearward and some of the fuel was siphoned overboard.

Of course the NTSB said that wasn't the reason he ran out of gas. It was because he didn't do a proper pre-flight and didn't see the vents pointing to the rear.

There's not much that can go wrong on a flight that isn't "pilot error".
 
Mister Mystery Man said:
There's not much that can go wrong on a flight that isn't "pilot error".
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Believe me, if you're going to cross 2100nm of water where no accurate winds aloft or weather is available, your preflight tends to be very careful.
 
Bobcat1 said:
Believe me, if you're going to cross 2100nm of water where no accurate winds aloft or weather is available, your preflight tends should to be very careful.
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Fixed that for ya.
 
Re: Ditched in Ocean (Out of Gas)

taters said:
Amazing how the guy is being crucified by the media and on the internet....he handled the situation as well as he could.
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Yeah, there are a lot of folks who haven't a clue about ferry operations coming up with all kinds of ignorant bull****.

(Not the folks here, but take a look at the reader comments for the news article.)
 
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Re: Ditched in Ocean (Out of Gas)

SO, I guess he technically did ferry it to Hawaii, just not necessarily to Hilo ... pay the man or not? :D
 
Re: Ditched in Ocean (Out of Gas)

I wonder the insurance is like to be an airplane ferry service.. They always seem to end up in the weirdest scenarios..
 
Re: Ditched in Ocean (Out of Gas)

taters said:
It can happen much easier than you think on a flight like that,even if it turns out he was not losing fuel or having problems with a tank . He recognized the situation 500 miles out. This flight was conducted by a ferry company,not by some student pilot. No options remain past the point of no return.

Amazing how the guy is being crucified by the media and on the internet....he handled the situation as well as he could.
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500 miles out, you know you are in fuel management trouble, why not feather one prop and run on one engine? All he needed was 30 mins of fuel right? Worth a try? :confused:

The pilot did a great job of getting the plane on the water without cartwheeling or nose over. Notice how he kept flying the plane even though he is hitting the water? :yesnod:
 
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Re: Ditched in Ocean (Out of Gas)

Geico266 said:
500 miles out, you know you are in fuel management trouble, why not feather one prop and run on one engine? All he needed was 30 mins of fuel right? Worth a try? :confused:

The pilot did a great job of getting the plane on the water without cartwheeling or nose over. Notice how he kept flying the plane even though he is hitting the water? :yesnod:
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Yes but he calculated he would run out well over 100 miles from shore..most twins are a leaking roof across the board on one engine...IMO distance potential more important than time potential in this case either way making the "call" that this wasn't working was his best decision....and his landing was EXCELLENT!
 
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Re: Ditched in Ocean (Out of Gas)

taters said:
Yes but he calculated he would run out well over 100 miles from shore ...so that really wouldn't have been an option... think distance potential for a given time...not time potential for a given distance...either way making the "call" this this wasn't working was his best decision.
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He knew he was in trouble 500 miles out (more than likely WAY before that). I think he is flying IO-520s consuming 15GPH each = 30 GPH and he is going 160 knots? Cut one engine and you are down to 15 GPH and your speed reduces to 120 knots?

I am not trying to second guess the guy, just talk about options that might help someone else.

Worth a shot? I am not a twin driver so I am talking out my tail feathers. (as usual ;)) :D
 
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Challenged said:
He did not do a great job with flight planning.
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How did you determine that? I knew a guy who barely made it back to Reykjavik after a fuel line blockage rendered a full aux tank unuseable. Sometimes stuff happens.

I just love how pilots talk about managing risk and if something should go wrong many are no better than the gen'l public in quickly assigning blame and implying the pilot was lax in something he did/didn't do.
 
schmookeeg said:
So I'm guessing if he had gone just a bit ... slower? He might have stretched it?

That sucks, what an epic flight too. Glad he is okay and can try again... after all, 310s are practically free these days.. one can afford to litter the sea with them. :D
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Feather one prop?
 
Cap'n Jack said:
I'm guessing ferry tanks- one can get permission from the FAA (or whoever) to add tanks to increase range, sometimes enough fuel to exceed the certified gross weight for the plane. Any number of people on this board know more about it than I.
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I think he needed one more tank! :rolleyes:
 
Richard said:
I just love how pilots talk about managing risk and if something should go wrong many are no better than the gen'l public in quickly assigning blame and implying the pilot was lax in something he did/didn't do.
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True, and just because someone is managing risk doesn't mean that there is no risk.
 
Re: Ditched in Ocean (Out of Gas)

Bobcat1 said:
Yeah, there are a lot of folks who haven't a clue about ferry operations coming up with all kinds of ignorant bull****.

(Not the folks here, but take a look at the reader comments for the news article.)
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Oh yes.....reminds me of my last commute sitting in front of some idiot...I had the director of training of my airline sitting right next to me.

" So this one time I saw ice on this Beechstream 1900 that we were flyin on and as I walked up I told the crew that they shouldn't take off. And the Captain said " good call, your right"...so anyway we got de-iced and Im telling you I saved our lives" ...blah blah blah....started narrating our whole 3 hour delay at DEN and telling folks which runways were "United's" and which were for Southwest...and how that pay big $$ to own them....I mean you gotta be kidding me!
 
LDJones said:
As someone pointed out, throttling back 1" of MP probably would have gotten there with reserves.

Bummer.
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Just curious as to how you came to this conclusion. Do we know what power settings he was flying with? My guess is that an experienced ferry pilot would have flown at the power setting that yeilded the best MPG, especially when he realized that he might be short of fuel (as this pilot did 500nm out).
 
Every risk assessment matrix I have seen does not allow one to eliminate risk to zero. And every risk carries a consequence. In aviation and maritime, even the smallest risk can have very large consequences. Compound that by the chain of events.
 
Re: Ditched in Ocean (Out of Gas)

Geico266 said:
He knew he was in trouble 500 miles out (more than likely WAY before that). I think he is flying IO-520s consuming 15GPH each = 30 GPH and he is going 160 knots? Cut one engine and you are down to 15 GPH and your speed reduces to 120 knots?

I am not trying to second guess the guy, just talk about options that might help someone else.

Worth a shot? I am not a twin driver so I am talking out my tail feathers. (as usual ;)) :D
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Well one engine feathered still increases drag ALOT due to the side-slip that you need to fly the plane.. My choice would be to get as far as you can...this might be high MP and low RPM or go as fast as hell. Again I dont have a clue about a 310 ..but in a Navajo/Chief Im going best economy..
 
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Mister Mystery Man said:
I do recall one instance of a plane running out of fuel because the line attendant put the caps back on with the vents facing rearward and some of the fuel was siphoned overboard.

Of course the NTSB said that wasn't the reason he ran out of gas. It was because he didn't do a proper pre-flight and didn't see the vents pointing to the rear.

There's not much that can go wrong on a flight that isn't "pilot error".
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And it was pilot error/improper pre-flight...I have had this issue before(on a super quick turn)..and never F'n again. Fuel caps are a PIC responsibility.period.
 
Why not just get a fuel cap that doesn't have a design flaw like that? (My caps are center vented, and you can't put them on "backwards".) Seems like a stupid reason to die, not to replace 'em.
 
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