290 @ 15G19- Might be a bit much for me...

Wrench978

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Wrench978
I am currently at 8.7 hours. just got started working on landings last week, and started doing pretty well, finishing my lesson friday with 4 unassisted landings. Had another lesson sunday with an instructor I haven't flown with, and after looking at the weather and talking about it, we decided to go up and try some crosswind landings (7B3 is 02/20). we figured if I was overwhelmed with it then we could come back early and call it a day. I was doing alright with the pattern (except for the one time I way overshot the runway due to the tailwind and had to go around) and final approach using sideslip to stay aligned with the runway, but my already-rough roundout was made even worse by downdrafts as we passed over the threshold. we made 3 landings and the instructor called it. the winds were doing funky things to the plane on both take off and landing that he didn't think I should be dealing with so early in my training.

Anyway, it was good to at least get up there in those winds and experience it. I think I will be more comfortable when Im facing 5-7kt X-winds now!
 
Going up when it is windy when you're training is FANTASTIC. For the first 3 months of my training, I didn't have a single day with no wind. Brutalized me on landings.

Now when winds are calm or right down the runway, pfffffffftttt... cake. When they're blowing off center? Pfffft. Cake.

Good on ya!
 
I don't take my students up on gusty days if it's their first or second time doing landings. Eventually you'll want to go up in gusty and crosswind conditions so you can get more comfortable.
 
around here, we kinda don't have much of a choice... our runway is aligned perpendicular to the prevailing winds (usually 250-300) and lately it has been pretty windy. I had a good day for my first shot at landings with only a 3kt X-wind. I actually would have kept flying in it yesterday if the instructor hadn't said anything, but it all worked out.
 
10 hours in and you're only having a little trouble with winds like that? From only using the information posted, I think you're doing great. Keep it up!
 
Well, I could keep it more or less lined up on final, but after finally feeling good with coordinated flight, I have to really concentrate on crossing controls to side slip. And the instructor had to make actual landing corrections..
 
I'm having a blast though, and have gotten great feedback from the instructors at my school. It's going well!
 
10 hours in and you're only having a little trouble with winds like that? From only using the information posted, I think you're doing great. Keep it up!

No kidding! My work plane is quite a bit heavier than the OPs, and you better believe that my lazy ass will ***** the entire time down final about winds like that. :) :)
 
15g19 @ 90 degrees? I can if I have too, but I won't do it on purpose, with the exception of going up with an instructor from time to time to practice.
 
One could do more 'airwork' on such days, or go to a nearby airport more aligned unto the wind for the bulk of landings.
 
One could do more 'airwork' on such days, or go to a nearby airport more aligned unto the wind for the bulk of landings.

We talked about that, but the 3 closest airports were not going to work. Plum island was having an RC show, pease is still pretty much direct crosswind, and Lawrence doesn't allow transient touch and gos on weekends. The tower might have made an exception but I was really ok giving it a shot in the winds at home.
 
Sounds like you are getting some great training and your instructors are reading your "aptitude" well. Keeping you challenged but not scaring you off. Start wearing a shirt every flight that you can sacrifice.
 
I'm glad you went up in the winds. Always good to experience that and practice that with your instructor, when able. Keeps you prepared for when unexpected wind pops up on days things are supposed to be calm. Happens more often than you may think, at least up here!
 
I was doing alright with the pattern (except for the one time I way overshot the runway due to the tailwind and had to go around) and final approach using sideslip to stay aligned with the runway, !

Great to get a taste of a windy bouncy day. I'm just curious about the slip on final. Were you trying to stay aligned with the extended runway centerline and using a slip? If that's the case I suggest you ask your CFI to show you a crab, which is what the rectangular pattern is all about. Usually you crab for a crosswind, then when you're beginning the roundout for landing, lower the wing for the crosswind and use rudder to keep you aligned with the centerline. Slips are generally used to eliminate excess altitude, like being too high (the plane, not you:)) on final. Sounds like you're enjoying the training and doing well. Good luck!
 
I am currently at 8.7 hours. just got started working on landings last week, and started doing pretty well, finishing my lesson friday with 4 unassisted landings. Had another lesson sunday with an instructor I haven't flown with, and after looking at the weather and talking about it, we decided to go up and try some crosswind landings (7B3 is 02/20). we figured if I was overwhelmed with it then we could come back early and call it a day. I was doing alright with the pattern (except for the one time I way overshot the runway due to the tailwind and had to go around) and final approach using sideslip to stay aligned with the runway, but my already-rough roundout was made even worse by downdrafts as we passed over the threshold. we made 3 landings and the instructor called it. the winds were doing funky things to the plane on both take off and landing that he didn't think I should be dealing with so early in my training.

Anyway, it was good to at least get up there in those winds and experience it. I think I will be more comfortable when Im facing 5-7kt X-winds now!

Was 290 the true or magnetic wind angle? Either way that is near the max crosswind for a 172, not sure what you're flying. I noticed one day practicing landing with my instructor that a 90 deg. crosswind is much different than the same crosswind component when combined with a headwind. Glad you're having fun, keep at it.
 
Great to get a taste of a windy bouncy day. I'm just curious about the slip on final. Were you trying to stay aligned with the extended runway centerline and using a slip? If that's the case I suggest you ask your CFI to show you a crab, which is what the rectangular pattern is all about. Usually you crab for a crosswind, then when you're beginning the roundout for landing, lower the wing for the crosswind and use rudder to keep you aligned with the centerline. Slips are generally used to eliminate excess altitude, like being too high (the plane, not you:)) on final. Sounds like you're enjoying the training and doing well. Good luck!
I assume he was referring to that point where you need to take the crab out. My instructor had me put crosswind correction slip in early in order to get a feel for keeping the wing down and keeping it lined up.
 
Was 290 the true or magnetic wind angle? Either way that is near the max crosswind for a 172, not sure what you're flying. I noticed one day practicing landing with my instructor that a 90 deg. crosswind is much different than the same crosswind component when combined with a headwind. Glad you're having fun, keep at it.
No such thing as the max crosswind - just the max demonstrated crosswind that the test pilots flew the plane in when flight testing it. Lots of people have flown 172s in stronger crosswinds than that with no ill effects.

I don't think it's documented at what crosswind you run out of rudder to keep the nose aligned with the runway, and it probably varies somewhat with conditions anyway. But I would consider that a harder limit, for safety reasons. (And truth to tell, the gust factor is probably going to make the landing seriously hairy well before that.)
 
Nice job!

For those who don't know, 7B3 is 2100ft with tall trees at both approach ends! Very short field but a really nice new paved runway.

I have been in there a lot recently because of the decent restaurant on the field, however, at almost 300 hours I wouldn't try a landing with that type of crosswind. Call me chicken but too short/narrow for me with that kind of wind.
 
Great to get a taste of a windy bouncy day. I'm just curious about the slip on final. Were you trying to stay aligned with the extended runway centerline and using a slip? If that's the case I suggest you ask your CFI to show you a crab, which is what the rectangular pattern is all about. Usually you crab for a crosswind, then when you're beginning the roundout for landing, lower the wing for the crosswind and use rudder to keep you aligned with the centerline. Slips are generally used to eliminate excess altitude, like being too high (the plane, not you:)) on final. Sounds like you're enjoying the training and doing well. Good luck!

Yeah, he explained that I could crab until I got close to the runway then use the rudder to straighten out, while holding (in this case) left aileron to control drift. I was starting the slip early to get a feel for it and figure out how much I needed to stay aligned.

I assume he was referring to that point where you need to take the crab out. My instructor had me put crosswind correction slip in early in order to get a feel for keeping the wing down and keeping it lined up.

I was pretty much rolling out of the turn to final and getting into it right away, but I can see in the future that I would crab until just before touchdown.
 
Nice job!

For those who don't know, 7B3 is 2100ft with tall trees at both approach ends! Very short field but a really nice new paved runway.

I have been in there a lot recently because of the decent restaurant on the field, however, at almost 300 hours I wouldn't try a landing with that type of crosswind. Call me chicken but too short/narrow for me with that kind of wind.


Those trees were doing some sketchy things with the wind! That's ultimately why we called it quits early.. It was taking longer than normal to clear the tops on take off due to down drafts, and as soon as we descended below the tops on landing we would start sinking faster.
 
Sounds like a challenging airport to TO and land at, and train. If you can handle that airport you should be good for just about anywhere. Wait until you land at an 9000' runway with no obstructions. ;)
 
Great to get a taste of a windy bouncy day. I'm just curious about the slip on final. Were you trying to stay aligned with the extended runway centerline and using a slip? If that's the case I suggest you ask your CFI to show you a crab, which is what the rectangular pattern is all about. Usually you crab for a crosswind, then when you're beginning the roundout for landing, lower the wing for the crosswind and use rudder to keep you aligned with the centerline. Slips are generally used to eliminate excess altitude, like being too high (the plane, not you:)) on final. Sounds like you're enjoying the training and doing well. Good luck!
You do know there are 2 kinds of slips right? A forward slip (which is used to get down quickly without increasing speed) and side slip (used in crosswind to keep the plane aligned with the runway).

Forward slip- rudder into the wind and ailerons in the opposite direction. Using the fuselage against wind to create drag to descend quickly
Side slip- ailerons into the wind (wing down into the wind) and opposite rudder to keep nose lined up with runway

My first CFI always had me crab and kickout right before the roundout. But my second CFI liked the side slip instead. He always said that with a crab, you may get to the kickout and find that you don't have enough rudder, but with a slip you know a long way out if you do. Personally, I prefer crab until short final when I kick it out and slip it in. The hardest part is keeping the aileron in to the end with the wing low because there is a lot of hand-foot coordination with aileron, rudder, throttle, and visual depth perception. Multi-tasking at its best.
 
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Sounds like the 20G29 I had to deal with for my flight review. It was only averaging 60-70 degrees of runway heading.

7B3, are you doing these in a cub? Grass runways are forgiving to side loads.
 
Im in a 172M. and we have a paved runway now. (you can still land on grass next to the paved strip)
 
Forward slip- rudder into the wind and ailerons in the opposite direction. Using the fuselage against wind to create drag to descend quickly
Side slip- ailerons into the wind (wing down into the wind) and opposite rudder to keep nose lined up with runway

You have a misconception there. You can forward slip or side slip either direction. And you can do it without any wind.

And the only difference between the two is the relationship of the aircraft's fuselage (longitudinal axis) to the ground track. The slips themselves are identical.

Easiest to explain and give a mental image example that they're all the same thing (a slip), with a no wind scenario...

Line up on a totally calm day with a road, now offset yourself to one side of it and fly parallel to it. Let's say the road runs north, 360 degrees.

You can bank toward the road and then put in enough rudder to stop the turn, and you'll appear out the window to "slide" back into alignment with the road sideways... A "sideslip". Putting yourself back over the road without allowing the nose to not be parallel to the road. Nose always stayed pointed 360.

Let's say you did it to the left, for clarity. Left aileron and right rudder.

Now imagine there's a runway over there to your left about 20 degrees off of the road you're lined up on. Heading 340.

Same slip... Exact same...

What you did to "sideslip" to the real road, is a "forward slip" to that imaginary runway over there. Nose wasn't pointed at it. No difference on the controls once established in the slip.

But, you would normally be aimed at it when you started. And that's where the two names come in. They're just teaching aids. If you were flying 340 and aimed at that imaginary runway, you'd have to add rudder first to get the nose OFF of that (and lined up with your 360 road), thus... a "forward" slip. Once established, you'd be in a "side slip" for the road.

See how that works? Same slip, different ground reference angle to the longitudinal axis/fuselage of your airplane.

Can reverse it and do both styles the other direction, too.

They're aerodynamically the exact same slip. You just entered them differently by starting with aileron first or rudder first in order to make the desired angle between the ground track and the longitudinal axis easier to obtain.

Most of the time folks eventually learn to just apply both controls simultaneously and adjust as desired. The whole "side" vs "forward" thing is just a teaching aid to show how to keep or move the longitudinal axis to where you want it.

Or as they say, "Aligned with the runway", or not.

If you have enough rudder (light crosswind) you can make a "side" slip steeper/more draggy by adding more of both aileron/bank and rudder. You've now got both a "side" and a "forward", component... or in reality, just a steeper/harder slip. More drag.

Once you bottom out that rudder pedal, you can't add any more aileron/bank without turning. That's your limit. (Well if you're landing out of it, your limit is below that, because as you slow down at the round out/flare, the rudder will lose some authority. If you're out of rudder before you've slowed to landing speed from approach speed, it's only going to get worse from there... Heh.)

Good mental exercise to think about. Same slips, different name, only difference is whether you've aligned the fuselage with something on the ground while holding the slip.
 
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