2014 hottest year on record

Discussion in 'Hangar Talk' started by steingar, Dec 3, 2014.

  1. N801BH

    N801BH Touchdown! Greaser! Gone West

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    Buy mine.....

    For POA members only.....9,999.00

    Call now. Operators are standing by.....:D

    1-800 CHOKE-FOR-AIR.
     
  2. Everskyward

    Everskyward Administrator Management Council Member

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    I agree that it was interesting, although he criticizes what he sees as the other side of the argument as opinion, while what he presents is opinion too.

    He mentions in the video that Greenpeace's mission changed at some point, going from more of a humanitarian focus to the opinion the humans are an enemy of the earth.

    While that might be true, I'm not sure that we will willingly go back to using wood instead of steel because steel is much more durable.

    It seems to me that humans were burning fossil fuels back in the 1910-1940 time frame too so I didn't necessarily agree with his argument. He didn't back it up with any statistics.

    Another thing I noticed is that he didn't completely discount the greenhouse effect as others here have been doing. He ascribed it more to clouds than CO2 which makes sense to me. But that is just from an observational standpoint, not a scientific one.
     
  3. docmirror

    docmirror Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Very nice read. It recalls the mantra from the religious leaders of the day when heliocentrism was first postulated.

    Theology over science then.

    Politics over science now.
     
  4. steingar

    steingar Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Hasn't been proven in even one instance of which I am aware.
     
  5. docmirror

    docmirror Touchdown! Greaser!

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    http://lmgtfy.com/?q=hockey+stick+graph


    This took about 6 seconds. Of course, if someone challenges your religion, it's certainly acceptable to stick your fingers in your ears and start shouting 'la-la-la-la-la-I-cant-heeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrr-youuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu'.
     
  6. Everskyward

    Everskyward Administrator Management Council Member

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    I tried to look him up and he is definitely a lightning rod. This was the most balanced profile I could find. Seems like he has always been more than a bit of a self-promoter, both during the Greenpeace days and now.

    http://archive.wired.com/wired/archive/12.03/moore.html

     
  7. azure

    azure Final Approach

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    I don't have a lot of time now, but just to put in my $.02 before the conversation takes off in a new direction...

    I agree with him on many points.

    I don't think he is saying to simply cut more trees, in fact he explicitly talks about forestry and the need for management. His bullet point was "grow more trees, use more wood" or something to that effect. Nothing to argue with there.

    His points about hydro and nuclear energy are well taken and tie in with Aplin's presentation. The popular renewable sources, wind and solar, will cost more to develop and the return on that investment will be less. Without devoting huge tracts of land to windmills and PV panels, the yield from those sources won't be anywhere near enough to replace fossil fuels.

    I agree with him about fast reactors being the one hope we have now of a viable long-term source of energy with enough yield to eventually replace oil and coal. One problem is that in the wake of Chernobyl and Fukushima, the backlash against nuclear is I think too strong to overcome anytime soon. The other is that the kinds of reactors he is talking about are *breeder* reactors, they generate their own fuel, and there is a strong stigma against breeder reactors out of misplaced concerns about proliferation, even though the modern designs I've seen make diversion by third parties virtually impossible. But all research on fast reactors in this country stopped over 20 years ago and as far as I know, there is no funding available for further development. So unless the private sector can go it alone AND overcome the regulatory hurdles in their way, the rest of the world may see this technology before we do. I hope I'm wrong about that.

    His argument about warming during 1910-1940 vs. 1960-present is pretty specious IMO. The IPCC doesn't say what they think caused the early 20th century warming. In section 1 of the AR5 Synthesis Report I can't find one paragraph that tries to attribute it to any particular cause. Their focus seems to be on the more recent warming because the data is solid enough (in their estimation) to reach strong conclusions. I think they overstate the confidence, but I think the conclusions themselves are quite plausible.

    More later... maybe.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2015
  8. write-stuff

    write-stuff En-Route

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    I would only add that "grow more trees, use more wood" is a dangerously simplistic directive when the world's populations are actively reducing the amount of forestland year by year. The message should be save what we have, then grow some more.
     
  9. Florida Cracker

    Florida Cracker Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Because NON progressives are offended by such outright fraud, and larceny.
     
  10. PaulS

    PaulS Final Approach

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    You are a day late and a dollar short.....


    http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=NEE


    great stock by the way.
     
  11. Rigged4Flight

    Rigged4Flight Cleared for Takeoff

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    most corporate forestry types maintain a harvest/plant/grow cycle on the forests they own or have rights to.
     
  12. write-stuff

    write-stuff En-Route

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    Yep and that's great. And although we're getting better at protecting it here in North America, we've still been loosing forest on a global level. It's pretty hard to convince some some starving national in a third world country that he shouldn't cut down trees to make pastureland for his goats.
     
  13. azure

    azure Final Approach

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    Agreed, but I thought that message was fairly clear from the context. The guy is strongly pro conscientious forestry. The slogan was IMO just a summary talking point.

    That said, it would have been nice to see him devote some time to the consequences of widespread deforestation.
     
  14. write-stuff

    write-stuff En-Route

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    I thought he glossed over the "grow baby, grow" aspect but maybe I missed that. At any rate, global deforestation rates are a huge part of ANY ecological problems we may be facing.
     
  15. Geico266

    Geico266 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Think "hockey stick". ;)
     
  16. Henning

    Henning Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Not the stock, actual Carbon Credits, they can be produced as a byproduct of electrical production from natural gas as a byproduct.
     
  17. PaulS

    PaulS Final Approach

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    Carbon credits are a huge part of their business plan and profits, in fact, they pretty much state that were the subsidies and credits stop, they would drop the wind and solar like a hot potato, they are not profitable otherwise.

    Edit: pretty sure there aren't carbon credits for natural gas.....
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2015
  18. JeffDG

    JeffDG Touchdown! Greaser!

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  19. LDJones

    LDJones Touchdown! Greaser!

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  20. ClimbnSink

    ClimbnSink Ejection Handle Pulled

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    And you puzzle why the world thinks scientists are dirty cheap whores?:lol:
     
  21. CharlieTango

    CharlieTango Line Up and Wait

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    Now you understand why NASA GISS’s Gavin Schmidt held that press conference and why he said what he did. Like so many of those “experts” abusing the prestige of their distinguished institutions in order to push the great global warming scam way past its sell-by date, he has long since parted company with empiricism, rigour or ethical restraint. He and his ilk have largely abandoned science, in favour of propaganda.

    :yeahthat:
     
  22. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

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    I'd love it if I could get paid for being 38% right. Hahahaha. I would bankrupt the company making that many mistakes.

    Oh wait. Yeah. That.
     
  23. Florida Cracker

    Florida Cracker Ejection Handle Pulled

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    I admire steingar for sticking by his "friends" in the mmgw scam industry, but I abhor the lack of integrity and conviction he emits when pretending nothing out fo order is occurring through the fabrication of data, misuse of data, careful use of only some of the data, and outright fraud going on, then CLAIMING it's not true because some of the scammers peers said so.
     
  24. overdrive148

    overdrive148 En-Route

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    Uh oh, better buckle up, we're gonna be in for at least another 500 posts :D
     
  25. N801BH

    N801BH Touchdown! Greaser! Gone West

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    \

    I got the popcorn ready.....:yes:.....:D....

    :popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:
     
  26. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

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    You forget to include the possibility in your analysis that in his biz, nothing is out of order when those things are occurring. ;)
     
  27. overdrive148

    overdrive148 En-Route

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    As long as you've got some of the terrible for you butter topping... :goofy::popcorn::drool:
     
  28. N801BH

    N801BH Touchdown! Greaser! Gone West

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    I only use Land O Lakes real salted butter........

    Ya got to die of something....:yes:.......:rofl:.