2-point landing

He Kept the motor running, I'd have shut it down myself.
Dave G
 
Shipoke said:
He Kept the motor running, I'd have shut it down myself.
Dave G
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What else? (Think about your pre-crash checklist before touching down, as you watch the video)
 
Master switch left on? I would have killed it all on short final but kept engine running in case I needed another chance!
Good job other than that though.
 
kthompson2k said:
Master switch left on? I would have killed it all on short final but kept engine running in case I needed another chance!
Good job other than that though.
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Yup you can see the tail and wing strobes going all the way through the ground loop. I know from personal observed experience that if you rupture a tip tank that has a strobe on the end of it, and that strobe is going, an impressive fire on the wing and adjacent vehicle will occur!
 
I'm with KT, however, I didn't see the door propped open... and my second CFI (who had a gear up), always said to prop your door open...

Cheers,

-Andrew
 
astanley said:
I'm with KT, however, I didn't see the door propped open... and my second CFI (who had a gear up), always said to prop your door open...

Cheers,

-Andrew
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Good call! That too!
 
Am I the only one not missing the OBVIOUS no-no in the video? He landed with only one gear leg! DUH!

IMO, landings are usually a lot less destructive if you remember to attach the other gear leg.
 
CJones said:
Am I the only one not missing the OBVIOUS no-no in the video? He landed with only one gear leg! DUH!

IMO, landings are usually a lot less destructive if you remember to attach the other gear leg.
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Dang, I did miss that!
 
A true to the soul "Trekkie", he has Scotty "beam" him out just before the TD....
If you look very closely, you can see the tiny sparkles of the transporter beam....
Engine still running, strobes going too... Who cares???


Mr. Scott Saved the day!! :) :) :) ;)
 
astanley said:
I'm with KT, however, I didn't see the door propped open... and my second CFI (who had a gear up), always said to prop your door open...
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If I'm solo I highly doubt my door will be open. The wind is going to hold it closed. If I have a passenger they are usually very new to flying and saying "hold the door open" may or may not work.

I'd probably undo the latches but thats the extent of it. I have an airplane to fly. Messing around with trying to hold a door open as I'm flaring is too big of a distraciton.
 
jangell said:
If I'm solo I highly doubt my door will be open. The wind is going to hold it closed. If I have a passenger they are usually very new to flying and saying "hold the door open" may or may not work.

I'd probably undo the latches but thats the extent of it. I have an airplane to fly. Messing around with trying to hold a door open as I'm flaring is too big of a distraciton.
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On a C172, this is as easy as (if memory serves...), open door, put handle in lock position, get hand off of door. The lock should stay off the latch and allow you to get it open.

Cheers,

-Andrew
 
as someone experienced with gear failure type of landings, turning the engine off would be low low low on my priority. never thought about the master thing with a failed main gear but makes sense Troy.
 
tonycondon said:
as someone experienced with gear failure type of landings, turning the engine off would be low low low on my priority. never thought about the master thing with a failed main gear but makes sense Troy.
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To me, it would be an absolute top priority! Why would you consider it a low priority?

Short final - door open and locked out
Short, short final - master OFF
Before Touchdown - Mixture LEAN
Rollout - bleed off as much airspeed as possible, work elevator full back

I figure get that prop stopped and don't let any juice flow in the wires are the two top priorities, along with how do I get out and how do I minimize risk of augering after I touch down?

Cheers,

-Andrew
 
astanley said:
To me, it would be an absolute top priority! Why would you consider it a low priority?

Short final - door open and locked out
Short, short final - master OFF
Before Touchdown - Mixture LEAN
Rollout - bleed off as much airspeed as possible, work elevator full back

I figure get that prop stopped and don't let any juice flow in the wires are the two top priorities, along with how do I get out and how do I minimize risk of augering after I touch down?

Cheers,

-Andrew
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Because we don't own the airplane and the owner has insurance. I would wait until after touchdown before killing the engine. Something could get ugly fast and you might need that power. The last thing I want is to shut down an engine to find out that I need the power because I misjudged my flare. Crunch. I think an engine is probably cheaper then a completely totaled airplane (engine destroyed now too) and a few very hurt occupants.

Why wait until short short final for the master? You don't need the master for anything. I want as few distractions as possible in the last phase of the emergency.

You spend too much time trying to do all kinds of extra crap and not enough time flying the airplane and that one wheel landing (which was done very nice) could turn out not to be so pretty.
 
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we discussed it quite a bit in this thread:
http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10280

Even if you own the plane, you have insurance, make sure you only have to use it for bent metal and not bent people. focus on making a safe landing, and the safest, slowest landing is made with power. Quit trying to save the airplane/engine.
 
tonycondon said:
we discussed it quite a bit in this thread:
http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10280

Even if you own the plane, you have insurance, make sure you only have to use it for bent metal and not bent people. focus on making a safe landing, and the safest, slowest landing is made with power. Quit trying to save the airplane/engine.
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IMO, this isn't about trying to save the engine. This is about a thing spinning 1k RPM about 5' from my head when I'm going to kiss concrete. I don't want that motor running, fuel moving through the motor, or that prop spinning as I come to a stop.

Cheers,

-Andrew
 
astanley said:
IMO, this isn't about trying to save the engine. This is about a thing spinning 1k RPM about 5' from my head when I'm going to kiss concrete. I don't want that motor running, fuel moving through the motor, or that prop spinning as I come to a stop.

Cheers,

-Andrew
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The prop will bend. The engine will stop. It is not going to force your airplane into rolling. I've seen the result of many gear up landings with the engine running. Tony just had the nose gear fail on a 182 a month ago.

I hope you're a perfect pilot. If you shut the engine down you are not allowed to be human anymore. No mistakes. If you make a mistake you better hope the EMT and doctors don't make any mistakes as they try to stitch you back into one piece.
 
i dont know, that spinny thing with fuel flowing to it has been there every minute youve been flying. If you are wearing your seatbelt and dont dive bomb into the ground the likelihood of you contacting it are pretty low. make a safe landing and you'll be able to get away in plenty of time before you are consumed by a possible fire. If these possibilities are too much for you, I recommend www.ssa.org You will have more fun flying and not be exposed to the risk of fire or engine failure.
 
astanley said:
To me, it would be an absolute top priority! Why would you consider it a low priority?
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http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001211X11376&key=1

NTSB report said:
During the landing gear retraction a loud bang was heard. Attempts to extend the gear were unsuccessful and an emergency landing was initiated. During the final approach the engines were shut down. When it was obvious that the airplane would touch down short of the runway an attempt to regain power was initiated; however, restoration of power was not sufficient to avoid impact with the terrain 750 feet short of the runway.

...

The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident as follows:

...Also causal was his misjudgment of distance and altitude from the runway which resulted in both his premature shutdown of the engines and an undershoot of the runway.
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When the wheels stop, the engines stop and not before. :no: At this point, the insurance company owns your airplane. Might as well get your money's worth rather than create additional unnecessary risk.
 
astanley said:
This is a very enlightening NTSB report. Thanks Kent, this gives me some food for thought.
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I have to give my primary CFI credit for that one. He told me about that accident once. Why, I don't know, considering we were flying a 172, but it was a valuable lesson nonetheless.

I didn't know much about it, so I did have to dig through the 28 pages of results my search returned! :eek: Seems that 310's have an awful lot of landing gear problems.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Seems that 310's have an awful lot of landing gear problems.
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I wonder if that is a 'relative' statistic. Considering how much the 310 is/was used for 'freight dog' type freight, the aircraft type would have a TON of gear cycles as compared to the average privately owned twin. That could possibly skew the pool from which the "gross gear failure incidents" occur.

Just throwing another wrench in the gears. ;)

-Chris
 
CJones said:
I wonder if that is a 'relative' statistic. Considering how much the 310 is/was used for 'freight dog' type freight, the aircraft type would have a TON of gear cycles as compared to the average privately owned twin. That could possibly skew the pool from which the "gross gear failure incidents" occur.
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I think the gear is one of the weak points on C-310s and other twin Cessnas. Anyway, that is what I was told by the FAA guys who came out to interview me following my gear problem. I also did a little investigating about this myself at that time. The retraction system has a lot of moving parts that can get out of adjustment or fail compared with other types of airplanes.
 
i know we are very careful about side loads on the 421, no rolling takeoffs etc. I know of a 421 that had a main gear collapse when the lineboy was pulling it out of a hangar.
 
CJones said:
I wonder if that is a 'relative' statistic. Considering how much the 310 is/was used for 'freight dog' type freight, the aircraft type would have a TON of gear cycles as compared to the average privately owned twin. That could possibly skew the pool from which the "gross gear failure incidents" occur.

Just throwing another wrench in the gears. ;)

-Chris
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Chris,

Give this a read, I think you might change your mind:

http://www.avweb.com/news/savvyaviator/187401-1.html

Feel free to skip to the subtitle "Don't believe everything your A&P says."
 
smigaldi said:
Can't read it as AvWeb now require registration to see this article and I won't register on their web site.
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Annoying, maybe a little. Giving them a little information so they know who their readers are....In turn for lots of content that might challenge your thoughts on aviation at no cost with the potential of someday saving your life? Worth it in my opinion.
 
jesse said:
Giving them a little information so they know who their readers are....In turn for lots of content that might challenge your thoughts on aviation at no cost with the potential of someday saving your life? Worth it in my opinion.
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Their readers are pilots. and if not pilots, aviation enthusiasts. what other form of life could read through those articles?
 
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