1tb != 1tb...

wbarnhill

Final Approach
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iEXTERMINATE
It's kinda disheartening to see this:
darkmn82
Tech Level: high
Followed by:

Pros: Large capacity.

Cons: Noisy, Flimsy Stand. Formats only to 931GB (you lose 69GB!).

Other Thoughts: I was disappointed by this drive, and will be returning it to Newegg. I understand that you lose some capacity when formatting a hard drive but losing 69gb is a bit too much. Is this really a 1TB hard drive? Not sure.
When will people learn that the market-speak for 1TB doesn't match computer-speak for 1TB?

In case you haven't slapped your forehead in response to what this guy said, here's a rundown...

Manufacturers of hard drives have, for the longest time, fudged the numbers when it comes to drive capacity. You put a 1TB drive in your computer and it's going to show up as 931GB, and all because of semantics.

Market-speak says that one terabyte is 1,000,000,000,000 bytes. Base 10. Standard human speak.

The problem is that computers don't operate in base 10. They operate in base 2 (binary, ones and zeros). A terabyte to a computer is 2^40, or 1,099,511,627,776 bytes.

Since computers use base 2, you can't use 1000 to divide, you have to use the binary "equivalent" which is 2^10, or 1024. If you divide by 1024 four times, you'll see that the 2^40 comes out to 1. That is why the computer would see it as a terabyte. The "pure" one trillion bytes cannot be divided 4 times, and instead ends up as 931 gigabytes (and some change).

Individuals with a "high" level of tech experience should be aware of this fact, and while I dislike the fact that hard drive manufacturers use such marketing techniques, it irks me that someone rates a product low simply because they didn't understand what 1TB meant.

/rant off.
 
1Tb! Fer cryin out loud. Who the hell needs it?
 

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I've never used more than about 35gb in any computer with exception of collecting some 60gb of music on a second installed drive. But, I have a bunch of extra internal and external drives.... mainly because I have automated back ups running like a paranoid maniac.

I just subscribed to Carbonite for online storage of financial data for business.
 
Mike, you do a bit of file compression and whatnot, you could probably free up some of that space!
 
1Tb! Fer cryin out loud. Who the hell needs it?

It wasn't that long ago that 40Mb HDD and 256Kb RAM was an insanely HUGE gaping hole to pour data into.

Today it takes what? About 100Mb to turn a simple light switch on.

1Tb? Give it 5 years and you probably won't even be able to fit a bare bones operating system on that.

That said, yea, I'm right there with you. 1Tb is insane. Whatever happened to optimized programming?

RTS
 
It wasn't that long ago that 40Mb HDD and 256Kb RAM was an insanely HUGE gaping hole to pour data into.

Today it takes what? About 100Mb to turn a simple light switch on.

1Tb? Give it 5 years and you probably won't even be able to fit a bare bones operating system on that.

That said, yea, I'm right there with you. 1Tb is insane. Whatever happened to optimized programming?

RTS
When I had a 5.25" floppy with a Commodore 64, I can't ever recall filling up a disk. What were those? 360k?

Oh, interested in buying one? 1541 Floppy Drive

:)
 
I had this same argument with a fellow CS student a few semesters ago, about an 80gb hard drive.

His response was:
"No, 1 kilobyte = 1000 bytes, always has been, always will be."

This is the downside to the new generation of folks who never saw the days when 1024 was a VERY common number.
 
My kids succeeding in filling up a 300G disk with music and vids inside a year. Older son is film major so lots of home grown vids thq5 grew huge with all the edits. Wife is a scrapbooker and has photos up the wazoo...

I got the last 400G NAS disk at Costco the other day for $200 - what a deal! If things keep going this way, I'm going to be needing a 1TB filer at home just to keep up ...

1024 ... yep, common. 32767 as max int ... not since 64 bit o/s ...
 
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So you are returning the perfectly good 1 trillion byte hard drive because in "computer speak" 1 trillion bytes "only" equals (after formating) 931 giga bytes. Do you really think that the drive is defective? I think not. Do you think than another drive rated at 1Tb from this or any other company will format any higher. I think not. Has this always been the case with all hard drives. Yes. I am just trying to see if I have the facts right.
 
So you are returning the perfectly good 1 trillion byte hard drive because in "computer speak" 1 trillion bytes "only" equals (after formating) 931 giga bytes. Do you really think that the drive is defective? I think not. Do you think than another drive rated at 1Tb from this or any other company will format any higher. I think not. Has this always been the case with all hard drives. Yes. I am just trying to see if I have the facts right.

No one here is the person in question who wrote that review. I'm ranting because the person claimed to have a high technical knowledge and yet they complained that the drive would only format to 931GB, which all of us realize that's all it's GOING to format to unless he finds some HD Manufacturer who actually uses base 2 in their marketing.
 
1Tb! Fer cryin out loud. Who the hell needs it?

I built myself a ~1TB RAID5 NAS device for all my music, movies, recorded TV, etc. To me, it's not really a question of how much I want to keep, necessarily, so much as it gives me the freedom to grab a whole ton of stuff without worrying about filling it up, then going back and pruning out the stuff I don't want to keep. YMMV, but I have a lot of music that I started collecting way back in '96 (all LEGAL for any RIAA types reading this... really) that totals... actually, I'm not sure how much the music totals itself and I'm not at home to look. But last I checked, I'm using 251GB of 838 total! :D

Hey, pr0n takes a lot of space, man!!

No comment! :hairraise:
 
Mike, you do a bit of file compression and whatnot, you could probably free up some of that space!

Nope. MP3s and movies are already compressed. They only get bigger if you try to shrink 'em.
 
I built myself a ~1TB RAID5 NAS device for all my music, movies, recorded TV, etc. To me, it's not really a question of how much I want to keep, necessarily, so much as it gives me the freedom to grab a whole ton of stuff without worrying about filling it up, then going back and pruning out the stuff I don't want to keep. YMMV, but I have a lot of music that I started collecting way back in '96 (all LEGAL for any RIAA types reading this... really) that totals... actually, I'm not sure how much the music totals itself and I'm not at home to look. But last I checked, I'm using 251GB of 838 total! :D



No comment! :hairraise:

I have 4 external hard drives, 200GB, 300GB, 500GB, 750GB. They're all about 40% full. I have various backups on them and need to consolidate the data on them.

I intend to build a NAS RAID 5 or 10 array with 2-3TB once the 1TB SATA disks ship and the cost comes down. At a minimum that will be a media store for iTunes media, and a backup depot. I already have a Gigabit Ethernet switch and will be wiring the house to have a Gigabit backbone.

The biggest aggravation is so far not being able to set up a centralized network store for the TiVos. They all require local disk. I know I can hack to get them to allow multi-room viewing at least.
 
No one here is the person in question who wrote that review. I'm ranting because the person claimed to have a high technical knowledge and yet they complained that the drive would only format to 931GB, which all of us realize that's all it's GOING to format to unless he finds some HD Manufacturer who actually uses base 2 in their marketing.

"High technical knowledge" = Have installed Windows and I can "program" in HTML. :D
 
I've got an Intel SS4000-E Network Storage System hanging off my LAN. 4 250 GByte SATA drives in a RAID5 configuration. Marketing speak, that gives me 750 GBytes of storage. Could have configured it with 500 GByte drives, but that isn't really needed. It serves as the backup for 4 computers at home. Three running XP perform incremental backups each night. The 4th, my Core 2 Duo machine running Vista, gets backed up when I have time. The backup software that came with the SS4000-E will not install under Vista, and the backup utility in Vista reports an error when I try and use it. And it does recognize the SS4000-E. So I use "copy". Yuck.

Now I need to replace my router and switch to support Gigabyte Ethernet so those backups go faster. Both the SS4000-E and my new computer support it, but the switch is the bottleneck.
 
Hey Mike, you may want to check out MythTV for your PVR solution. I converted my old desktop to a MythTV box and I love it. Best of all no pesky $12.95/month subscription, and it is open source Linux based.

Pete
 
The 4th, my Core 2 Duo machine running Vista, gets backed up when I have time. The backup software that came with the SS4000-E will not install under Vista, and the backup utility in Vista reports an error when I try and use it. And it does recognize the SS4000-E. So I use "copy". Yuck.
Not XCOPY? More flexible, and faster, to boot.
 
Hey Mike, you may want to check out MythTV for your PVR solution. I converted my old desktop to a MythTV box and I love it. Best of all no pesky $12.95/month subscription, and it is open source Linux based.

Pete

Yeahbut, what are you going to use for a source?

There are no Hi-Def capture cards, except ones that work with an antenna. I can already get over the air HD on my two TiVos. It is, BTW, amazingly good quality.

With the MPAA determined to not let you have access to a digital HD signal, I may just decide to not fight them and not give them any of my money.

You won't even be able to get standard RF SD basic cable in a year.

My only hope is CableCARD, but so far it's one way only so no Video on Demand and such.

It is absolutely unbelievable that every technology alternative is stymied by one thing or another.
 
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Yeahbut, what are you going to use for a source?

There are no Hi-Def capture cards, except ones that work with an antenna. I can already get over the air HD on my two TiVos. It is, BTW, amazingly good quality.

With the MPAA determined to not let you have access to a digital HD signal, I may just decide to not fight them and not give them any of my money.

You won't even be able to get standard RF SD basic cable in a year.

My only hope CableCARD, but so far it's one way only so no Video on Demand and such.

It is absolutely unbelievable that every technology alternative is stymied by one thing or another.

Hmm, then I wonder how I have 6 tuners (4 SD and 2 HD) in my MythTV box and don't have an antenna? guess that coax that I have running into them is just a placebo...:dunno:

In all seriousness...I'm on the basic cable plan (chan 2-22) and I can pick up HD through cable using a QAM. They're not supposed to encrypt it, but some do. Mine happens to be unencrypted. I haven't paid for a DVR in two years. I have centralized storage and it's much more capable than my sister's tivo.
 
Not XCOPY? More flexible, and faster, to boot.

What I really need to do is write a batch file that copies the directories I want to back up. Then fire it up before going to bed. It'd just be better if I had a Vista compatible version of the software running on the XP machines.
 
What I really need to do is write a batch file that copies the directories I want to back up. Then fire it up before going to bed. It'd just be better if I had a Vista compatible version of the software running on the XP machines.

I would skip copying the directories or files you want to back up and use rsync. Rsync will only copy the changes. Very fast--I use it to sync some pretty large datasets across some less than speedy connections.
 
I would skip copying the directories or files you want to back up and use rsync. Rsync will only copy the changes. Very fast--I use it to sync some pretty large datasets across some less than speedy connections.

Rsync? What's that and where would I find it?
 
Its a unix command that does what Jesse described. If you google it you can find a few varities of windows flavors for it.

Jesse's right - you will save a TON of space by doing incremental backups rsynch isn't your only option, thats just the common unix name for it. There's a number of 3rd party software backup applications for what you're looking for. Google rsynch, backup, windows, etc.

Ideally in Vista I'd think you'ld want a .NET 2.0 version just to ensure that its not going to have compatibility issues. Not sure tho - not doing anything in Vista yet.

The best practice backup strategey is generally considered to do a weekly full backup with daily incremental backups. Keep 2 weeks of backups so you never overwrite your most recent full.
 
You can get rsync as part of cygwin (linux tools for windows). I use rsnapsot at home. It's essentially a script front end to rsync that allows incrementals and and point in time restores.
 
Its a unix command that does what Jesse described. If you google it you can find a few varities of windows flavors for it.

Jesse's right - you will save a TON of space by doing incremental backups rsynch isn't your only option, thats just the common unix name for it. There's a number of 3rd party software backup applications for what you're looking for. Google rsynch, backup, windows, etc.

Ideally in Vista I'd think you'ld want a .NET 2.0 version just to ensure that its not going to have compatibility issues. Not sure tho - not doing anything in Vista yet.

The best practice backup strategey is generally considered to do a weekly full backup with daily incremental backups. Keep 2 weeks of backups so you never overwrite your most recent full.

XCOPY has the ability to do incremental backups too using its ability to look at and reset the ARCHIVE attribute and to copy based on date modified. It's an amazingly powerful command, so I suspect it didn't come originally from Microsoft. :rofl:
Copies files and directory trees.

XCOPY source [destination] [/A | /M] [/D[:date]] [/P] [/S [/E]] [/V] [/W]
[/C] [/I] [/Q] [/F] [/L] [/G] [/H] [/R] [/T] [/U]
[/K] [/N] [/O] [/X] [/Y] [/-Y] [/Z]
[/EXCLUDE:file1[+file2][+file3]...]

source Specifies the file(s) to copy.
destination Specifies the location and/or name of new files.
/A Copies only files with the archive attribute set,
doesn't change the attribute.
/M Copies only files with the archive attribute set,
turns off the archive attribute.
/D:m-d-y Copies files changed on or after the specified date.
If no date is given, copies only those files whose
source time is newer than the destination time.
/EXCLUDE:file1[+file2][+file3]...
Specifies a list of files containing strings. Each string
should be in a separate line in the files. When any of the
strings match any part of the absolute path of the file to be
copied, that file will be excluded from being copied. For
example, specifying a string like \obj\ or .obj will exclude
all files underneath the directory obj or all files with the
.obj extension respectively.
/P Prompts you before creating each destination file.
/S Copies directories and subdirectories except empty ones.
/E Copies directories and subdirectories, including empty ones.
Same as /S /E. May be used to modify /T.
/V Verifies each new file.
/W Prompts you to press a key before copying.
/C Continues copying even if errors occur.
/I If destination does not exist and copying more than one file,
assumes that destination must be a directory.
/Q Does not display file names while copying.
/F Displays full source and destination file names while copying.
/L Displays files that would be copied.
/G Allows the copying of encrypted files to destination that does
not support encryption.
/H Copies hidden and system files also.
/R Overwrites read-only files.
/T Creates directory structure, but does not copy files. Does not
include empty directories or subdirectories. /T /E includes
empty directories and subdirectories.
/U Copies only files that already exist in destination.
/K Copies attributes. Normal Xcopy will reset read-only attributes.
/N Copies using the generated short names.
/O Copies file ownership and ACL information.
/X Copies file audit settings (implies /O).
/Y Suppresses prompting to confirm you want to overwrite an
existing destination file.
/-Y Causes prompting to confirm you want to overwrite an
existing destination file.
/Z Copies networked files in restartable mode.

The switch /Y may be preset in the COPYCMD environment variable.
This may be overridden with /-Y on the command line.
 
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