1st photo of A380 cockpit

mikea said:
This (alledgedly) the first photo of the cockpit of the A380.

The picture doesn't look real. The 2D effect, lighting and shadows just are not right at all for a real plane. Maybe a concept image from airbus?

The keyboard and blue screens of death...that's just wrong for any airplane.
 
fgcason said:
The picture doesn't look real. The 2D effect, lighting and shadows just are not right at all for a real plane. Maybe a concept image from airbus?

The keyboard and blue screens of death...that's just wrong for any airplane.

It is real. Here is an article that also has a very similiar phot of the cockpit in it.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/gall/0,8542,1393041,00.html
 
I'll have to twist my brother's arm to get a tour of one when Fedex takes delivery.
 
Sidesticks are normal for Airbus aircraft, and for airplanes that are strictly fly-by-wire, they are a very nice control. They make for a more comfortable cockpit, and make it possible to add things like a keyboard. The keyboard is useful for maintenance and recordkeeping, as well as working the ACARS system and other messaging.

The Garmin G1000 has an infrared keyboard available. Particularly when the system gets aware of airways, the keyboard will be a very good way to enter flight plans and other stuff, instead of twisting knobs.
 
I'm confused, I don't see the carb heat anywhere... :)

--Kath
 
smigaldi said:
It is real.

Ok. Well. It looks fake to me.
I guess they won't be checking me out in that thing anytime soon.

Frank Browne said:
You ain't lyin! I'd hate to think of my pilot being distracted by web porn!:hairraise:

I'd be more worried about their online game of D&D or Empire. Work can't interfere with games like that.

Hmmm.... I wonder. Can they design the software to run FS2004 with the actual flight controls while it's enroute. The pilots could practice their destination 0/0 approaches enroute. Of course things could get real entertaining if they don't switch everything back before starting down hill.
 
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Please, please, PLEASE tell me that's not Windows running on there. Please.

I am never going to get on one of those. I had enough misgivings about Airbus already. Didn't anyone tell them that the Blue Screen of Death in the cockpit thing was a friggin' CARTOON?!? :no:
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Please, please, PLEASE tell me that's not Windows running on there. Please.

I am never going to get on one of those. I had enough misgivings about Airbus already. Didn't anyone tell them that the Blue Screen of Death in the cockpit thing was a friggin' CARTOON?!? :no:

It's Windows. If you read the license for Windows it says it specifically not intended for life critical applications....Ya know - Like in the alarm panels of power plants where a loose worm can initiate a blackout of the the entire east coast.

0957790.jpg

http://forums.fark.com/cgi/fark/comments.pl?IDLink=2029856
 
mikea said:
It's Windows. If you read the license for Windows it says it specifically not intended for life critical applications...

How on earth can such a beast be certified?!? :dunno:

If it ain't Boeing, I ain't going.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
How on earth can such a beast be certified?!? :dunno:

There's a Exemption From Sensibility subsection in the certification process called "Abominations." They use that.

flyingcheesehead said:
If it ain't Boeing, I ain't going.

If it weighs over 8000lbs gross and/or can't land on grass, I ain't going.
 
I don't really see an issue with running Windows.

Obviously..those are just PC's on both sides. It's not like that is running your fly-by-wire controls. It's just a way to get information. I'd imagine they'll use it for approach plates...and playing solitare enroute.


I would also imagine it is a very locked down Windows...and quite frankly...Windows/2000/XP/2003 are *really* not that bad. Most problems are the result of poorly written 3rd party applications and drivers.

In a situation where the setup is controlled, tested, and locked down..the condition of the system is known..and nothing ever changes...Windows works fine.

You'd be surprised how many things out there run Windows...from medical applications to industrial.....to machines that run your nuclear power plant :yes:..


Oh...and beleive me I hate Microsoft. I hate Windows. Go Linux, GO apple. But...I'm not going to lie..Sometimes Windows is the best answer.
 
jangell said:
and quite frankly...Windows/2000/XP/2003 are *really* not that bad.

Barbed wire in place of elevator cable isn't *really* all that bad either. Maybe replace control surfaces with particle board and L brackets while we're at it. It should work..most of the time.

jangell said:
Sometimes Windows is the best answer.

Sometimes one off hand crafted special use software is an even better answer. Why do you need a ?couple million? lines of code just to get a base system to install your flight control software on?

As system compexity approaches infinity, mean time between failures approaches zero.
 
fgcason said:
Barbed wire in place of elevator cable isn't *really* all that bad either. Maybe replace control surfaces with particle board and L brackets while we're at it. It should work..most of the time.



Sometimes one off hand crafted special use software is an even better answer. Why do you need a ?couple million? lines of code just to get a base system to install your flight control software on?

As system compexity approaches infinity, mean time between failures approaches zero.

Like I said. The part that is running Windows i highly doubt is responsible for nothing more then maybe charts or solitare.

Hand crafted special use software has it's place. Like running the flight controls.

If you like it or not. Windows XP Embedded / Linux Embedded are used more then you think. Reason..Why reinvent the wheel?
 
fgcason said:
Barbed wire in place of elevator cable isn't *really* all that bad either. Maybe replace control surfaces with particle board and L brackets while we're at it. It should work..most of the time.



Sometimes one off hand crafted special use software is an even better answer. Why do you need a ?couple million? lines of code just to get a base system to install your flight control software on?

As system compexity approaches infinity, mean time between failures approaches zero.

It is better to use pared down OSs than a monolithic one. They would never have shipped TiVos in two years if it ran on Windows rather than embedded Linux.

The main problem is the many millions, maybe billions of lines of code were written by kids with fresh CS degrees that haven't learned about details like bounds checking. It works, mostly. Ship it.

Then the script kiddies find out where they can provide unexpected input and get arbitrary code to run. It's real hard to find those holes in the existing code long after the team that wrote it has left. They burn em and hire new ones.

Outsiders get hints of the magitude of the problem when they ask when seemingly simple things in IE can be fixed. When the fix comes out an entire peice of functionality is removed. That's because it's a nightmare to deleve intot he guts of whatever it is so they just fidn the module and remove it. Witness: It's a RFC that
Code:
ftp://user:password@site.com
is legal. When that was used for phishing because IE didn't display it properly it was removed instead of the parser being fixed.

Microsoft has a monumental job in delving into all of that legacy code.

Even writng new stuff is overwhelming.
There's also the word from inside that Vista is being delayed becuase it's better than "laying a turd."

http://minimsft.blogspot.com/2006/03/vista-2007-fire-leadership-now.html
 
From http://www.aerospace-technology.com/projects/a380/

The A380 is a member of the Airbus Flight Operational Commonality family with similar flight decks and operating procedures in the A320, A330 and A340 aircraft, providing easy crew transition training, cross crew qualification and mixed fleet flying. Thales Avionics developed and supplied the eight high format, high-resolution, 150mm x 200mm (6in x 8in) liquid crystal displays and is to provide the digital head-up display (HUD). Honeywell of the USA has been selected to provide the next-generation flight management system, which will have increased data handling speed and a graphical user interface with pop-up menus and cursor control, rather than a text-based interface. Honeywell will also supply the satellite communications system. Goodrich will supply air data systems.
Rockwell Collins will supply communications systems including VHF and HF radios and multi-mode receivers. Northrop Grumman has been selected to provide the LTN-101E inertial navigation system. Smiths Industries will provide the video management unit which will include the display from cockpit door and cabin surveillance systems. L-3 Aviation Recorders of Florida will provide flight data and cockpit voice recorders.

from http://www.aviationnow.com/avnow/news/channel_om_story.jsp?view=story&id=news/om0505380.xml

the A380 offers three further advances in troubleshooting technology. These include improved built-in test equipment (BITE), automated fault-reporting through ACARS satellite datalinks, and free on-line access to Airbus' own troubleshooting software, Airman 2000.

Until now, a typical BITE system offers fault classification and display, but the A380 has interactive BITE, which makes current systems seem almost antiquated. On a current aircraft type, for example, a system fault-notification usually will pinpoint a specific component. The troubleshooting manual will recommend a test to confirm the failure and refers the engineer to the aircraft maintenance manual for instructions on how to carry out the test. This might involve pulling a circuit breaker or turning on the hydraulic pressure etc. before the test can be run to confirm the failure.

With interactive BITE, the engineer simply presses a button to run a test and the aircraft configures the system for the requested test. "This is major step forward," said Thierry Herault, "because everything needed is already on the aircraft and no paper documentation is required. All required manuals are stored and interlinked in the central maintenance system (CMS) while on-line links to Airman 2000 are available through ACARS."

from: http://www.ghs.com/news/20050615_airbus380.html

June 15, 2005—Green Hills Software, Inc., the technology leader in operating systems and development tools for safe and secure systems, today announced that the Airbus A380 flew at the opening of this week’s Paris Air Show with the Green Hills Software INTEGRITY-178B operating system in its engine monitoring system. INTEGRITY-178B is also being used in the A380 navigation system.

Northrop Grumman is using Green Hills Software¹s INTEGRITY®-178B RTOS to produce a PowerPC-based inertial navigation system for the Airbus A380, providing 4 times the reliability of traditional systems. The long-range Airbus A380, seating up to 555 passengers at a length of 239 feet, will be the industry¹s largest commercial airplane.



... "Computer" on the USS Enterprise is not too far off...
 
fgcason said:
There's a Exemption From Sensibility subsection in the certification process called "Abominations." They use that.

That would be funny, if there weren't some truth to it.

jangell said:
I don't really see an issue with running Windows.

Anyone can run windows all they like. When it's my LIFE at stake, no way! :no:

Obviously..those are just PC's on both sides. It's not like that is running your fly-by-wire controls. It's just a way to get information. I'd imagine they'll use it for approach plates...and playing solitare enroute.

Are approach plates not important, and the failure of that system not potentially life-threatening? If it's "just" a PC, why is it part of the airplane, it'll be obsolete before the fool thing ships!?! If it's "just" a PC, why not have laptops/tablets for the crew instead? So they don't have to shut off their portable electronic devices and they can play solitaire on approach? :hairraise:

I cannot imagine a single good reason to have Windows as part of a commercial airliner. Or any airplane, for that matter.

and quite frankly...Windows/2000/XP/2003 are *really* not that bad.

Yeah, well, it's really not that good either, when my life depends on it.

Oh...and beleive me I hate Microsoft. I hate Windows. Go Linux, GO apple. But...I'm not going to lie..Sometimes Windows is the best answer.

Not this time. No way, no how am I going to get on an airplane with it. Airbus could give me some stick time in an A380 for free and I'd tell 'em to take a hike. Heck, they could give me an A380 for free and I'd tell 'em to... Well, OK, I'd sell it and buy a real airplane or ten. :rofl: :D
 
Steve said:
...Northrop Grumman is using Green Hills Software¹s INTEGRITY®-178B RTOS to produce a PowerPC-based inertial navigation system for the Airbus A380, providing 4 times the reliability of traditional systems. The long-range Airbus A380, seating up to 555 passengers at a length of 239 feet, will be the industry¹s largest commercial airplane.



... "Computer" on the USS Enterprise is not too far off...


Sure, Steve, bring on actual facts. I was going from the comments on Fark that it sure looked like Windows.

I'll bet it IS embedded Linux.

I think the Arnav(?) glass panels do run Windows. It was NT when they came out.
 
The A380 holds special interest for me as my little brother currently signs his email: Managing Director, Airbus 380 Program, FedEx

I've got a note in to him asking for any details he might be able to share regarding the software.

He did tell me the B787 uses a Wind River operating system.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Please, please, PLEASE tell me that's not Windows running on there. Please.

Ever flown with an MX-20? Its running... Windows. :)
 
Steve said:
He did tell me the B787 uses a Wind River operating system.

Uh oh... We had a Wind River Bug that um... RESET every 49 days. :)
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Not this time. No way, no how am I going to get on an airplane with it. Airbus could give me some stick time in an A380 for free and I'd tell 'em to take a hike. Heck, they could give me an A380 for free and I'd tell 'em to... Well, OK, I'd sell it and buy a real airplane or ten. :rofl: :D
Like I've said several times now. I *highly* doubt it that Windows is running anything that is critical to the safety of the flight, whereas it is probably being ran on the non-critical computers located to the left and right of the co-pilot.

You'd be surprised how many things out there run Windows though.

It is extremely common in low quantity special applications.

Why higher several programmers for $XXX,XXX and take XX months to complete. When you are only building 4 of them.

*Personally* I would make my own build of Linux. But many companies chose to go the XP Embedded route and make their own build of Windows. They can have it done by next week. They'll sell 4 of them. Onto the next project.
 
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This just in from my "contact" :

"I can tell you that the NSS (Network Server System) that manages the non-airworthiness avionics (EFB, Fault Reporting software, etc) is LINUX based."

If I get more details I'll pass them on....

mikea said:
Sure, Steve, bring on actual facts. I was going from the comments on Fark that it sure looked like Windows.

I'll bet it IS embedded Linux.

I think the Arnav(?) glass panels do run Windows. It was NT when they came out.
 
AirBaker said:
Uh oh... We had a Wind River Bug that um... RESET every 49 days. :)

:rofl: That's the same bug the FAA had with their Windows system!

Did the air traffic control center really have a "Microsoft server crash"?
Submitted by doc on Wed, 09/22/2004 - 19:02.

On Tuesday, September 14, something went wrong at the FAA's regional center that controls high altitude air traffic over Southern California and much of the southwest U.S. Two days later, this Associated Press story (carried here on MSNBC) summarized the problem in its opening sentence: "Failure to perform a routine maintenance check caused the shutdown of an air traffic communications system serving a large swath of the West, resulting in several close calls in the skies, the FAA and a union official said Wednesday." That same day, the Los Angeles Times ran a story titled "Human Factors Silenced Airports". Then, on September 21, TechWorld ran a story titled "Microsoft server crash nearly causes 800-plane pile-up: Failure to restart system caused data overload". It begins, "A major breakdown in Southern California's air traffic control system last week was partly due to a 'design anomaly' in the way Microsoft Windows servers were integrated into the system, according to a report in the Los Angeles Times. Here's what the Times story said....

Officials from Professional Airways Systems Specialists, the union that represents FAA technicians, acknowledged Wednesday that an improperly trained employee failed to reset the Palmdale radio system.

But they said the quirk in the system, known as Voice Switching and Control System, is a "design anomaly" that should have been corrected after it was discovered last year in Atlanta.

As originally designed, the VSCS system used computers that ran on an operating system known as Unix, said Ray Baggett, vice president for the union's western region.

The VSCS system was built for the FAA by Harris Corp. of Melbourne, Fla., at a cost of more than $1.5 billion.

When the system was upgraded about a year ago, the original computers were replaced by Dell computers using Microsoft software. Baggett said the Microsoft software contained an internal clock designed to shut the system down after 49.7 days to prevent it from becoming overloaded with data.

Software analysts say a shutdown mechanism is preferable to allowing an overloaded system to keep running and potentially give controllers wrong information about flights.

Richard Riggs, an advisor to the technicians union, said the FAA had been planning to fix the program for some time. "They should have done it before they fielded the system," he said.

To prevent a reoccurrence of the problem before the software glitch is fixed, Laura Brown, an FAA spokeswoman, said the agency plans to install a system that would issue a warning well before shutdown.

Martin, the chief FAA spokesman in Washington, said the failure was not an indication of the reliability of the radio communications system itself, which he described as "nearly perfect."

Reminds me of when our NT guys routinely rebooted servers every weekend and were convinced that was routine. Then we did a screen capture of our Novell server showing 789 days of uptime.

(Yes. Windows 2000 server is better now.)
 
mikea said:
:rofl: That's the same bug the FAA had with their Windows system!



Reminds me of when our NT guys routinely rebooted servers every weekend and were convinced that was routine. Then we did a screen capture of our Novell server showing 789 days of uptime.

(Yes. Windows 2000 server is better now.)

I wouldn't be suprised if they meant Wind River but said Microsoft. :)

Yeah, that is the bug though.... Its a command line OS we use.
 
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