1st Class C - FWA?

[sbonek]

I'm considering making my first trip into a Class C airport tomorrow, and I'm considering Ft. Wayne Intl (KFWA).

I think I'm pretty comfortable with the proper way to arrive and depart. Any tips from first experiences into a Class C airport?

Any thoughts on KFWA for those that have been? Seems pretty GA friendly (Airnav says 34% of operations are transient GA), and not too busy. During my training, my instructor and I were going to make it part of my night x-c, but he found out one of the runways was closed at the time, so we went elsewhere. Which was a bummer for me, since I really wanted to do a Class C with an instructor, and KFWA is the closest one.

 

[tonycondon]

just make sure you are cleared to land. ive found not a lot different between class D and C for the most part, unless it is busy at the C. Midway and John Wayne etc. are the exception, not the rule.

 

[jason]

Yeah, it's pretty laid back. The only real difference is that you have to contact approach before hitting the airspace instead of the tower.

If you want to get a feel for what you're going to go into, check out an episode of The Finer Points entitled Goodbye Charlie. It's a ride-along heading out of Class C airspace. Including all radio calls. I know it's the wrong direction (outbound), but it'll give you the idea that Class C isn't so bad.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I think I'm pretty comfortable with the proper way to arrive and depart. Any tips from first experiences into a Class C airport?

Well... I'm based at one, so I'm coming from the opposite point of view. However, IMHO it's fairly simple. On the way in, you'll call Approach, then Tower, then possibly Ground. On the way out, you'll call Clearance Delivery, then Ground, then Tower, then Departure.

Inbound
1. Approach (get the ATIS first).
"Fort Wayne Approach, <type> <tail number> is at <altitude> <location> landing with <ATIS code>." They'll reply with "<type> <tail number>, squawk <code>." Read back the squawk, set it in the transponder, and a moment later you should hear "<type> <tail number>, radar contact <location>, expect <runway>. (or other instructions)"

So, something like this:
P: "Fort Wayne Approach, Skylane 271G is over Warsaw at three thousand five hundred, landing with Hotel."
C: "Skylane 271G, roger, squawk 0426."
P: "Squawk 0426, 271g."
C: "Skylane 271G, radar contact two miles east of Warsaw, make left base runway 5."
P: "Left base runway 5, 271G."
(a bit later)
C: "Skylane 271G, contact tower, 119.1."
P: "Contact tower, 119.1, 271G."

2. Tower
You'll be handed off from Approach, and they already know where you are. Be sure to verify what Approach told you.
"Fort Wayne Tower, <type> <tail>, <approach/runway instructions>."
"<type><tail>, clear to land <runway>."

So, for example:
P: "Fort Wayne Tower, Skylane 271G, left base runway 5."
C: "Skylane 271G, runway 5, cleared to land."
P: "Clear to land runway 5, 271G."

After landing, you may be given taxi instructions right away, if you slow to where you can get off on your own, you can. Wait for instructions before proceeding farther than the other side of the hold short line. You may also stay with the Tower controller rather than being switched to ground, depending on traffic. Something like this:

C: "Skylane 271G, left on Charlie Three, contact ground point niner."
P: "Left on Charlie Three, ground point niner, 271G."

Ground frequencies are always 121.6, 121.7, 121.8, or 121.9 so many controllers will leave off the 121 portion. However, the frequency is in the A/FD so you should know it already. Also, be sure you study the airport diagram before you go as well as having it ready in the plane so you'll have a clue what you're doing before you land. You will NOT have time to look up which way to turn on the landing rollout, and they DO want you off the runway ASAP.

3. Ground
P: "Fort Wayne Ground, Skylane 271G is clear of 5 on charlie 3 going to Mercury Air Center."
C: "271G, right on charlie, taxi to the ramp."
(read back, including any hold short instructions)

Outbound
1. Clearance (get the ATIS first). I'm just going to give examples, 'cuz I gotta run.

P: "Fort Wayne Clearance, Skylane 271G is VFR westbound at four thousand five hundred."
C: "Skylane 271G, maintain VFR at or below three thousand, departure frequency 127.2, squawk 0432."
P: "Maintain VFR at or below 3,000, departure on 127.2, squawk 0432, 271G."
C: "Skylane 271G, readback correct, advise ground when ready to taxi."

2. Ground
P: "Fort Wayne Ground, Skylane 271G is at Mercury Air Center with India, ready to taxi."
C: "271G, taxi to runway 5 via Charlie, hold short of runway 9."
P: "Taxi to 5 via Charlie, hold short of 9, 271G."
(decided to throw that in as an additional example... Hold short of runway 9 in this case until Ground says...)
C: "271G, cleared to cross runway 9."
P: "Cleared across runway 9, 271G." (at this point you can resume taxiing the rest of the way.)

3. Tower
From the hold short line (no need to ask Ground for a frequency change, this one is assumed):
P: "Fort Wayne Tower, Skylane 271G holding short of runway 5, ready for takeoff."
C: "Skylane 271G, hold short for landing traffic." (another twist for ya.)
P: "Hold short, 271G."
C (after landing traffic passes): "Skylane 271G, runway 5, position and hold." (Note that supposedly P&H clearances went away at some places, but they're still in use at MSN, and may be at FWA as well.)
P: "Position and hold runway 5, 271G."
C (after preceding traffic has cleared the runway): "Skylane 271G, fly heading 360, runway 5, cleared for takeoff." (You may or may not get a heading to fly, or it may be runway heading.)
P: "Fly 360, cleared for takeoff runway 5, 271G."

Takeoff roll goes here. Shortly after takeoff, usually around 6-800 AGL, you'll get

C: "Skylane 271G, contact departure."
P: "Contact departure, 271G."

4. Departure
You got this frequency when you called clearance delivery. It's a very good idea to have this in a standby frequency if you have flip-flop radios, or the second radio if you have two non-flip-flops. Tuning radios just after taking off is not a good idea. Be sure before you take off that you've rehearsed this.
P: "Fort Wayne Departure, Skylane 271G, climbing through one thousand five hundred." (You may want to add "360 assigned" so that they know you're on an assigned heading, if you are.)
C: "Skylane 271G, radar contact, turn left on course."
P: "On course, 271G." (On course also implies that a climb to your cruise altitude is OK, and some controllers will add "climb to four thousand five hundred approved" to make that clear.)

Some time later:

C: "Skylane 271G, you're leaving my airspace. Radar services terminated, squawk VFR, frequency change approved."
P: "Squawk VFR, 271G."

And at that point you can go on your merry way.

Some things that may make this easier for you:

1. Do some armchair flying with the above.
2. Have a CFI or a pilot with lots of experience in class C play controller and give you some different scenarios (vectors for sequence or traffic, traffic calls, assign different approaches for you to visualize, etc.)
3. Listen to a live ATC feed on the net. You can try liveatc.net but it looks like most if not all of those are class B except Newark which I think is D. Jason, are there any Class C's on liveatc.net?

Have fun, and let us know how it goes!

 

[sbonek]

Yeah, it's pretty laid back. The only real difference is that you have to contact approach before hitting the airspace instead of the tower.

If you want to get a feel for what you're going to go into, check out an episode of The Finer Points entitled Goodbye Charlie. It's a ride-along heading out of Class C airspace. Including all radio calls. I know it's the wrong direction (outbound), but it'll give you the idea that Class C isn't so bad.

I've hit all of the Class D's in Indiana, and for any trip over 40 miles or so, I usually get Flight Following, so it sounds like Class C isn't much difference from Class D, other than that you have to talk to Approach.

Yep, I've listed to the podcast, very helpful.

Thanks.

 

[sbonek]

Well... I'm based at one, so I'm coming from the opposite point of view. ......

Thanks for the rundown and all of the examples Kent. I plan on getting Flight Following both ways, so that should make it easier than having to call up approach when getting close to the KFWA airspace.

Weather permitting, I'm going to make the trip tonight.

Thanks.

 

[ScottM]

I've hit all of the Class D's in Indiana, and for any trip over 40 miles or so, I usually get Flight Following, so it sounds like Class C isn't much difference from Class D, other than that you have to talk to Approach.

Yep, I've listed to the podcast, very helpful.

Thanks.

The stuff previously in the thread is a good example to follow. FWA Class C is very laid back and not busy. I would offer this suggestion though. Instead of landing at FWA head over to SMD on the north side. It is still in the Class C or rather just under it and much more happy to have GA fly into it. The FBO is well equiped and it is cheap as in no landing/parking fees to be there. They also have a crew car that they can loan you to get a bite to et.

 

[sbonek]

The stuff previously in the thread is a good example to follow. FWA Class C is very laid back and not busy. I would offer this suggestion though. Instead of landing at FWA head over to SMD on the north side. It is still in the Class C or rather just under it and much more happy to have GA fly into it. The FBO is well equiped and it is cheap as in no landing/parking fees to be there. They also have a crew car that they can loan you to get a bite to et.

If I get cold feet about going to FWA, I might go to SMD. The only reason I'm flying to Ft. Wayne is to (hopefully) land at a Class C airport in preparation for flying to KSBN down the road, with the family. Flying with the family (including 2 young girls) is stressful enough, I'm hoping to hit at least one Class C airport before I take them into that environment.

Thanks.

 

[jason]

Jason, are there any Class C's on liveatc.net?

I know that I'm not the Jason that you were talking to, but I am a Jason...and I can answer the question.

They have quite a few class charlies in Live ATC (including my home drome - KLNK). If you click on Live ATC Audio Feeds, there are links at the top that let you filter. Including a USA Class C filter.

Great write up, Kent. I know that I've listened to too many pilotcasts when I can actually hear you making that flight...in your voice.

 

[sbonek]

I know that I'm not the Jason that you were talking to, but I am a Jason...and I can answer the question.

They have quite a few class charlies in Live ATC (including my home drome - KLNK). If you click on Live ATC Audio Feeds, there are links at the top that let you filter. Including a USA Class C filter.

Great write up, Kent. I know that I've listened to too many pilotcasts when I can actually hear you making that flight...in your voice.

I'm a big fan of Live ATC. My wife and coworkers look at me weird when I'm listening to one of the feeds, but it is very helpful.

 

[ScottM]

If I get cold feet about going to FWA, I might go to SMD. The only reason I'm flying to Ft. Wayne is to (hopefully) land at a Class C airport in preparation for flying to KSBN down the road, with the family. Flying with the family (including 2 young girls) is stressful enough, I'm hoping to hit at least one Class C airport before I take them into that environment.

Thanks.

I understand. When you go to SBN just make sure you DO NOT pick a game day. That place is really busy and they will run out of places to park.

 

[sbonek]

I understand. When you go to SBN just make sure you DO NOT pick a game day. That place is really busy and they will run out of places to park.

I heard about the issues they were having with that. I read somewhere that they were increasing the areas devoted to park, but not sure when that was going to happen.

 

[ScottM]

I heard about the issues they were having with that. I read somewhere that they were increasing the areas devoted to park, but not sure when that was going to happen.

They need to. I fly to Fort Wayne a lot, I land at Smith which is why I recomended it to you. Passing through SBN's airspace is always exciting on game day. I hear the frustration in the controller's voices, I have even heard them tell VFR traffic to go away as there is no place for them to park once they arrive. In other words the airport becomes closed to anyone not doing touch and goes

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Thanks for the rundown and all of the examples Kent. I plan on getting Flight Following both ways, so that should make it easier than having to call up approach when getting close to the KFWA airspace.

The only difference will be that you'll be handed off and they should already know where you are. So, your first call to approach would be changed to something like "Fort Wayne Approach, Skylane 271G level five thousand five hundred landing with Sierra."

The only difficulty this adds is picking up the ATIS beforehand, as you'll either have to listen to two radios (what I usually do) or request a momentary frequency change as you get close, which might prompt the Center controller to tell you to "Squawk VFR, contact Fort Wayne Approach 127.2 for further flight following." At which point, you're back to plan A.

Have a good trip and let us know how it goes!

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Great write up, Kent. I know that I've listened to too many pilotcasts when I can actually hear you making that flight...in your voice.

Hee hee...

Actually, soon enough you will be able to hear that. We got so much positive feedback on my flight into OSH that I'm going to be doing a bunch more flights, into and out of B, C, D, and E/G airports, VFR and IFR, maybe with video.

Real soon now...

 

[gprellwitz]

Hee hee...

Actually, soon enough you will be able to hear that. We got so much positive feedback on my flight into OSH that I'm going to be doing a bunch more flights, into and out of B, C, D, and E/G airports, VFR and IFR, maybe with video.

Real soon now...

I want to see/hear the one where you're flying into ORD! A friend of mine has video of him going in there one night in a 172 and taxiing around. He knows a controller there.

 

[sbonek]

The only difference will be that you'll be handed off and they should already know where you are. So, your first call to approach would be changed to something like "Fort Wayne Approach, Skylane 271G level five thousand five hundred landing with Sierra."

The only difficulty this adds is picking up the ATIS beforehand, as you'll either have to listen to two radios (what I usually do) or request a momentary frequency change as you get close, which might prompt the Center controller to tell you to "Squawk VFR, contact Fort Wayne Approach 127.2 for further flight following." At which point, you're back to plan A.

Have a good trip and let us know how it goes!

Done and Done. It went very well. After leaving KMQJ, I got Flight Following from Indy Apch, they handed me off to Grissom Apch and they handed me off to Ft. Wayne Approach. I was flying the Victor Airway to the FWA VOR, so I was perfectly lined up for a straight in approach to 5, which is what Apch had me do.

Kinda funny, after I switched over to Tower, they asked what type aircraft. I told him 172, apparently they had me listed as a Lear... as I told the controller, "not quite". Do they ask type aircraft for the purposes of charging landing fees for those that get them?

Got a hold short instruction after turning off onto the taxiway, but by time I got to the hold short line (for runway 14/32), the landing or departing traffic was out of the way, so I didn't actually have to hold short.

Txied to Parking, snapped a picture to claim the airport for the ConUS challlenge, used the little boys room and was on my way.

First time calling Clearance Delivery, so that was pretty cool. Got the "maintain at or below 3,000", x-ponder code and departure frequency. Talked to Ground, taxied to 14 and took off.

It was pretty cool to be at an airport that actually has a terminal building with Jetways. Actually had a Northwest Airlink Turboprop taxing behind me when I was taxing into parking and they were departing, that was kind of neat.

All in all it went well, I even had good landings at FWA and back at MQJ. This was the first time I have flown any length of time at night without my instructor in the right-seat, so that took some time to get used to, and I swear the engine hesitated several times between FWA and the Muncie / Anderson area (even though I know it didn't). I even got in 3 night landings back at MQJ so I can now carry passengers at night (even though I probably won't be).

The only couple bobbles I had were when departing, Ground asked if I wanted to takeoff on 14 or 23. I was looking at the airport diagram, trying to figure out what I really wanted to do, and Ground had to re-ask me before I realized since I was going south and it was closing to parking, 14 made the most sense. The only other thing was when I called C/D, I've heard if you want Flight Following, that is the time to ask for it. I forgot to do that, so once on my way, when I was sensing Ft. Wayne Approach was about to drop me off and tell me "radar services terminated", I asked the controller and he setup the handoff for me.

Thanks for all the suggestions, and special thanks to Kent for the play by play, it really helped to reassure that what I thought I needed to do, was indeed correct.

Next stop, KSBN with the family... hopefully in the next month or so, before it gets too cold and snowy up there.

 

[kthompson2k]

I didnt think they issued a vfr squawk code coming into class C space? I know they do in D and B but for some reason I was thinking you stayed 1200 on the way in or on the squawk they had issued you for flight following?

KT

 

[jason]

Kinda funny, after I switched over to Tower, they asked what type aircraft. I told him 172, apparently they had me listed as a Lear... as I told the controller, "not quite". Do they ask type aircraft for the purposes of charging landing fees for those that get them?

Way to go!

They need to know type of aircraft so that they know your capabilities. For instance, they don't want to set you up landing a runway 5 miles out with a Citation coming in to the same runway 8 miles out. They'd sequence him in front of you or move you to another runway.

 

[ScottM]

I didnt think they issued a vfr squawk code coming into class C space? I know they do in D and B but for some reason I was thinking you stayed 1200 on the way in or on the squawk they had issued you for flight following?

KT

I have alwys been issued a squawk for Class C and B, rarely if ever for Class D when VFR

 

[ScottM]

Way to go!

They need to know type of aircraft so that they know your capabilities. For instance, they don't want to set you up landing a runway 5 miles out with a Citation coming in to the same runway 8 miles out. They'd sequence him in front of you or move you to another runway.

Exactly but sometime that does not always work. I was in a 172RG coming into SRQ and they asked me to keep up best speed. They were thinking in a 172 I would be about 105 to 115 knots. In the RG I was at 140 knots. ATC came back on and asked "what type of 172 are you?" when I told he asked me to slow down to 100 knots. That is something you don't get to here too much in a 172.

 

[sbonek]

Exactly but sometime that does not always work. I was in a 172RG coming into SRQ and they asked me to keep up best speed. They were thinking in a 172 I would be about 105 to 115 knots. In the RG I was at 140 knots. ATC came back on and asked "what type of 172 are you?" when I told he asked me to slow down to 100 knots. That is something you don't get to here too much in a 172.

Interesting... I was watching my speed all the way in on final. It was very slow, so nobody was behind me, but I wanted to keep my speed up just in case, so where I normally would be slowing down to around 80 knots, I was keeping it in the 100 - 110 before I dropped my 20's and 30's and I waited longer to do the 20's and 30's, since I knew I had plenty of runway to work with if I came in too hot and floated.... it worked pretty well.

 

[jason]

Interesting... I was watching my speed all the way in on final. It was very slow, so nobody was behind me, but I wanted to keep my speed up just in case, so where I normally would be slowing down to around 80 knots, I was keeping it in the 100 - 110 before I dropped my 20's and 30's and I waited longer to do the 20's and 30's, since I knew I had plenty of runway to work with if I came in too hot and floated.... it worked pretty well.

I wouldn't worry about it unless they ask you to keep speed up. They'll let you know if somebody is there and/or they'll sequence around you (or you around them).

 

[tonycondon]

heh reminds me of the first time i actually taxied from parking at a class C airport, which was also my CFI checkride. Examiner had told me hed help me out on the radio procedure there, he knew i had trained at a middle of nowhere iowa airport. i did the clearance delivery and ground thing fine. the ground controller was a former graduate of my 141 school. he asked if i was a CFI at Iowa lakes, he recognized the airplane. I said "not yet, taking my ride now" examiner says "good answer" anywho i do runup, then i have a brain fart. i call ground telling them im ready to go, ground says '5219K, contact tower" examiner chuckles. i totally forgot the whole ground doesnt hand you off to tower thing, silly me.

 

[ScottM]

heh reminds me of the first time i actually taxied from parking at a class C airport, which was also my CFI checkride. Examiner had told me hed help me out on the radio procedure there, he knew i had trained at a middle of nowhere iowa airport. i did the clearance delivery and ground thing fine. the ground controller was a former graduate of my 141 school. he asked if i was a CFI at Iowa lakes, he recognized the airplane. I said "not yet, taking my ride now" examiner says "good answer" anywho i do runup, then i have a brain fart. i call ground telling them im ready to go, ground says '5219K, contact tower" examiner chuckles. i totally forgot the whole ground doesnt hand you off to tower thing, silly me.

That is a nicer story at class C than what my comercial DE told me during my check ride. While we were taxing out to the runway he asked me if I was planning on just going to the foxtrot intersection ahead and take off from there. I told him no as I was cleared to runway 14 not runway 14 at the foxtrot intersection. So it was a little test.

But then he told me he had been giving a privte check ride the month prior. The guy was also cleared to runway 14 but habit was to go to the foxtrot intersection as it was in line with the taxiway out of the fbo. The controller went a little crazy and started yelling on the radio that the pilot had made and error. The guy then said 'sorry he was a student pilot on a check ride' and that is when things got worse. The controller then started telling him that he should fail his checkride right then for causing such a hazard to traffic on the airport. Apprently it was really ugly. The DE got the applicant calmed down got on the radio asked the controller for the number to the tower chief and then told him to pass on the message to the chief to expect a call.

When the checkride was over, with a pass BTW, the DE went into the FBO and the tower chief was there waiting for him with his hat in hand and offered an apology on behalf of the controller. It turned out ok.

I should also add that this was at Sarasota airprt were a few years ago a quadruple fatality took place on that very runway when a plane at foxtrot was given position and hold and then a plane at the departure end was told to take off. They colided on the runway.

 

[tonycondon]

ug scott, that sucks

 

[ScottM]

ug scott, that sucks

I never did find out if the controller that yelled that day was invovled with the collision on the runway in some way. I do know that Sarasota is very busy, one of the busier class C I have flown into and I have had a near inicidents. Onces on 1/2 mile final an archer was cleared for take off right in front of me, I went around. Got an oops from ATC on that one, he thought I was further out.

 

[tonycondon]

yea i had that happen to me at PWK. i was on about 1/2 mile final in a 182 while a 172 was taking off. it was tight but i held on and it worked out. i think a go around would have caused all hell to break loose. the had a citation on downind, another on base, another just departed ahead of the 172 and another coming off of the lake doing a midfield crossing. i wouldve been flying a formation climb with the 172 trying not to get sideswiped by a citation and stay out of the bravo. all in all im glad it worked out. those tower controllers at palwaukee earn their pay if you ask me.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

It was pretty cool to be at an airport that actually has a terminal building with Jetways. Actually had a Northwest Airlink Turboprop taxing behind me when I was taxing into parking and they were departing, that was kind of neat.

Do GA and airlines use the same terminal?

The only other thing was when I called C/D, I've heard if you want Flight Following, that is the time to ask for it. I forgot to do that, so once on my way, when I was sensing Ft. Wayne Approach was about to drop me off and tell me "radar services terminated", I asked the controller and he setup the handoff for me.

Did they have you change your squawk? If not, they were already planning on giving you FF even though you didn't ask. The nicer C's will do that for you sometimes, especially at night. Otherwise, the first squawk code you get is a "local" squawk (in MSN, it's 01xx for IFR and 04xx for VFR, this varies somewhat by facility). I know as soon as I call CD that if they give me a squawk like "4325" I'm getting handed off to Chicago Center.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I didnt think they issued a vfr squawk code coming into class C space? I know they do in D and B

C and B, not D and B. C and B are both radar facilities. D's may have a BRITE scope but are primarily non-radar and will not give you a squawk as they have nothing to see it on.

So, you'll always get a squawk coming into C or B.

 

[gprellwitz]

Do GA and airlines use the same terminal?

Leslie and I once had a gate in our 172 right next to a 747. Of course this was Christchurch, NZ!

 

[sbonek]

Do GA and airlines use the same terminal?



Did they have you change your squawk? If not, they were already planning on giving you FF even though you didn't ask. The nicer C's will do that for you sometimes, especially at night. Otherwise, the first squawk code you get is a "local" squawk (in MSN, it's 01xx for IFR and 04xx for VFR, this varies somewhat by facility). I know as soon as I call CD that if they give me a squawk like "4325" I'm getting handed off to Chicago Center.

Not at FWA. On the ramp on the North side, there is the terminal for the airlines, and to the West, there is the FBO, Mercury Air Center. To get to Mercury Air Center, you taxi right past the airline terminal.

Yes, he had me change the squawk code from the one given by C/D, but he said because I was on the borderline between the airspace for Grissom Apch and Indy Apch, it was having some problems picking it up, so he had me change it back to the one given C/D.

 

[ScottM]

yea i had that happen to me at PWK. i was on about 1/2 mile final in a 182 while a 172 was taking off. it was tight but i held on and it worked out.

I stayed on approach as long as I could. If the plane had actually just taken the runway and then left I may have been able to safely land. But the guy stopped and took about 5 to 10 secodns before he started rolling by then I was just about at the approach end. We ended up paralelling for a little bit too.

 

[ScottM]

Not at FWA. On the ramp on the North side, there is the terminal for the airlines, and to the West, there is the FBO, Mercury Air Center. To get to Mercury Air Center, you taxi right past the airline terminal.

Yes, he had me change the squawk code from the one given by C/D, but he said because I was on the borderline between the airspace for Grissom Apch and Indy Apch, it was having some problems picking it up, so he had me change it back to the one given C/D.

Steve did you park or anything over at MErcury? I have been curious as to how they treat the FLIBs

 

[sbonek]

Steve did you park or anything over at MErcury? I have been curious as to how they treat the FLIBs

Yep, I parked just for a few minutes to take a picture for ConUS challenge and to use the restroom. The line guy was good, chocked the wheels for me, asked if I needed anything. It was a pretty short trip for me, so I didn't need fuel or anything. The lobby is very nice, looks like it was updated in the last few years. Nice chairs, nice floors, nice large flat-screen TV on the wall. I didn't get at chance to check the pilot lounge or anything like that. But everyone that I dealt with was very nice.

 

[kthompson2k]

I have alwys been issued a squawk for Class C and B, rarely if ever for Class D when VFR

Yep, You are correct, I was not thinking correctly. C & B are radar.