1974 Piper Pathfinder for Sale

Discussion in 'The Classifieds' started by Jay Honeck, May 31, 2013.

  1. wabower

    wabower Touchdown! Greaser!

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    You gotta factor the decrease in TAS compared to the decrease in fuel burn to get the entire picture. FWIW, it's almost always favorable, usually very favorable.

     
  2. jesse

    jesse Administrator Management Council Member

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    FWIW I often climb to 10,000 ft in the Flybaby on cross countries. The fuel flow/TAS works out in my favor. I've got 75hp. It takes me..some time..to get there.
     
  3. wabower

    wabower Touchdown! Greaser!

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    We did the same in the L2 with 75 hp. It was better but still not confused with speedy. It's got an 0-200 now but still won't win any races.



     
  4. Jay Honeck

    Jay Honeck Touchdown! Greaser!

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    10K' with 75 HP? Impressive!

    I think we got our 85 HP Ercoupe up to 7500' once. It took all day, and with such a tiny fuel burn (4 gallons of car gas per hour) I wasn't concerned about "saving money".

    I remember it felt like we were hovering. Into the wind, I think our groundspeed was 40 knots.
     
  5. steingar

    steingar Taxi to Parking

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    Used to fly in the low (very low) teens in my 150 with 100 hp. Took all day of course.

    I always try and get as high as the clouds will let me for the cool smooth air. I like being where I can firewall the throttle and be at 65% power. Did that on the way to Wings and had a nice flight, as least before I had to duck under the cloud deck and start dodging thunderstorms.
     
  6. Foxhole

    Foxhole Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Atlas is a fine looking plane. Good luck with the sale.

    I'm going to buy a lotto ticket today. Could you hold him for me until I get my winnings? :)
     
  7. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser!

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    His weight in the 'Baby is probably 300 pounds less than the Coupe. Still it's impressive.

    One lazy afternoon after I got my certificate, I got a 152 up to 14,000 for the hell of it. Not only did it take a while to get up there, it took a while to come down without violating Vne.
     
  8. Jaybird180

    Jaybird180 Final Approach

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    May be an interesting way to practice falling leaf:D
     
  9. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Depends... 75% is the max at around 7000, and you can maintain 65% up to about 11,000. Since I normally run at 65%, well, higher is better. However, I don't like to run at max RPM either. The sweet spot in the Mooney is right around 9000, WOT and 2300 RPM she'll get 175 knots on 12 gph. Above that she'll slow back down and get lower fuel burn - I've gotten 165 KTAS on slightly less than 9 gph up in the teens.

    Trip distance makes a difference too - I'll easily get 120 knots and 1000 fpm in the climb (I've seen as high as 140 and 1600 on a cold day), and at 500 fpm down I'm usually doing at least 180 knots. So, on average it's going to take me at least 8 miles of distance to go up and down 1000 feet, and I figure that it doesn't make much sense to spend less than half the flight in cruise, so except for weather/terrain issues I'll usually only climb 1000 feet per 15nm of trip distance.

    OH! I get it... When you said "Above 8K, you just lose too much horsepower" you weren't talking about the airplane. ;) :rofl:
     
  10. denverpilot

    denverpilot Tied Down

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    Hopefully it wasn't a Mile High Club reference! :yikes:
     
  11. Jay Honeck

    Jay Honeck Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Well, remember that "all day" qualifier. For a flight of 500 miles or less, altitude doesn't bother me enough to mention.

    It does diminish the power available to your engine, however. Much of my altitude decision depends on winds aloft, too.

    Many things go into an altitude decision, but rather than use a "percentage of power" chart a good rule of thumb down here is to fly above the haze layer for cooler temperature and smoothness of the air, but not so high as to lose too much power or give yourself a headache.

    KISS, and comfort trumps all.

    Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S3...
     
  12. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    It does, but you can still do better than 65% at 8000. And I'll go pretty high for favorable winds in the Mooney - I got about 240 knots in cruise once, and I think 252 in the descent, up at 12K. Whee! :goofy:

    Sounds like a good method to me! The other thing I've got available as long as I have the backwards-tail wonder is built-in oxygen. I've used that quite a bit more than I ever expected to. I've gone right up to the legal limits in other planes, but now I'll go on o2 above 11000 just because it's there. Helps a bunch. It's like a turbo for the pilot. ;)

    Agreed.
     
  13. Banjo33

    Banjo33 Line Up and Wait

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    Beautiful plane Jay!

    Having never been in any Piper other than our club's -180 Cherokee, how's the shoulder room for the front seats in comparison? I'm in the market for a good cross country plane for myself and wife and ample shoulder room is one of our concerns. The -180 is just a little narrow.
     
  14. weilke

    weilke Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    It's the same fuselage as a Cherokee 180.
     
  15. Jay Honeck

    Jay Honeck Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Shoulder room is the same in the 180 or the 235. The fuselage difference between the two is in length, which translates directly into added rear seat legroom.

    Which indirectly translates into FRONT seat legroom, since you won't have to be all scrunched forward in order to accommodate back seaters.

    To fix shoulder incursions, have your wife move her seat forward (or back) a bit, so your shoulders don't line up. :D
     
  16. Banjo33

    Banjo33 Line Up and Wait

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    I like the way you think! Lol

    I'm working hard on her...your plane is real nice and fits our mission nearly perfectly.
     
  17. Jay Honeck

    Jay Honeck Touchdown! Greaser!

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  18. steingar

    steingar Taxi to Parking

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    Good luck Jay.
     
  19. weilke

    weilke Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    If I may suggest that you put TT, TSMOH and TPOH into the ad.

    You have received some pointers on your pricing by folks who have access to the applicable databases.
     
  20. JoseCuervo

    JoseCuervo En-Route

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    I was looking on Barnstormers for a plane earlier today and then I browsed the Pathfinders to see what the "next" plane to sell would be.

    There were two or three that had advertisements with more information on the airplane (Engine time, Total Time, Avionics, etc) that I was able to "rank" in level of interest on my part.

    Your advertisement didn't tell me anything about the plane you are selling, just the generic stuff about Pathfinders (they carry a lot of stuff) which I would likely already know before searching and the fact that you bought an RV, which, for the most part, as a prospective buyer is not of that much interest to me. Making me go to another website to learn more about the airplane is more effort that I want to invest when there are 3 other planes on Barnstormers that are telling me information I want. [/End Marketing Guy Unsolicited Feedback]

    In any event, best of luck selling it and moving on to the new plane (the RV is gorgeous, by the way).


    (Edit: When I do take the effort to click on the link to your website, it has a different price than Barnstormers.)
     
  21. Jay Honeck

    Jay Honeck Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Yep, I just lowered the price on Barnstormers. Haven't gotten round to dropping it elsewhere yet.
     
  22. Jay Honeck

    Jay Honeck Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Mmm, I guess I thought having that info in the specs page was sufficient, but I guess not.

    I will change it, thanks.
     
  23. weilke

    weilke Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    And I'll second the suggestion made above. If someone is looking for a 235, they know the merits of the type. They dont want to read your ad-copy and life-story, they want to know numbers on the engine, the age of P&I and what avionics are installed. You can put all your nice words into the spec-sheet.

    I would revise the spec sheet somewhat:
    - put the information on the overhaul into the 'engine' section and call it 'field overhaul to new limits (if applicable) with new/overhauled XYC cylinders (as applicable) by Keith Roof Iowa City aircraft repair in 2002. All parts tested by Divco/aircraft accessories (if applicable). Overhaul work-order available upon request' Unless it is a reman or 'name' shop, buyers are interested in how the overhaul was done
    - list the actual radios. You mention that they are 'dual nav-coms'. From what I can see, you have a Narco 121/122 integrated CDI/nav units and two separate digital coms of some stripe (a narco and a michels ?)
    - State that the autopilot is working and what it is harnessed to (hdg only, nav coupler ?)
    - State that you have a 337 or log entry for the panel dock, state that the 496 is included (if it is).
    - give some meaningful performance numbers with corresponding fuel-flow.
    - spend a couple of $$ to either replace the carpeting with a pre-cut set or take out the carpets and foam them to death.
    - state when the interior was done and by whom
    - re-take the panel shot without that giant clamp on the yoke and unless you intend to sell the hand-held and the headset with the plane, retake the pics without the handheld and the headset
    - mention whether SB1006 was performed and when.
    - I dont remember how many pictures barnstormers allows, but max out whatever the number is with current pictures of the freshly washed waxed and carpet-cleaned plane (buyers are shallow)
    - You are on the gulf-coast. Many buyers wont even look at FL and gulf coast planes due to corrosion concerns. Consider stating in your spec sheet that the plane was Iowa based from 2000-2010 (and if you know where it was before you bought it).

    I know there are all these things that make you convinced that your plane is special, but in reality people dont care whether Atlas is faster than an Arrow, they are not buyin an Arrow. Rather than professing your love of the plane, add more facts that are meaningful for the prospective buyer (like fuel-flow/speed data at different altitudes). Consider saving your spec sheet as a PDF, that way you ar protected against someone altering your spec sheet and bothering you after the sale.

    Put a note at the bottom of the spec sheet: 'This information is believed to be corrrect but subject to verification by any prospective buyer'.

    You have a very nice plane there. I wish I could say that it should sell quickly.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2013
  24. Jay Honeck

    Jay Honeck Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Bump. Down to $62K.