1969 Piper Cherokee 180 with GNS430

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fusatod

Filing Flight Plan
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Feb 11, 2011
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I gave my plane to a broker. I'd like to upgrade to a retractible, and so I need to sell my bird first. It's a great plane, reliable and fast thanks to the speed kit. If interested, just connect with the broker. See details below:
http://www.chiav.com/1969PA28180.html
 
Hey! I know that plane.

That's EdFred's old Cherokee. Nice bird.
 
Located in the Chicago area?
 
That'll make someone a nice traveling bird. Good luck on the upgrade.
 
fusatod said:
I gave my plane to a broker. I'd like to upgrade to a retractible, and so I need to sell my bird first. It's a great plane, reliable and fast thanks to the speed kit. If interested, just connect with the broker. See details below:
http://www.chiav.com/1969PA28180.html
Click to expand...


Fast? How fast at what fuel burn?

Just curious. In the back of my mind, I'm thinking I need to be in the market for a family hauler.
 
fusatod said:
I gave my plane to a broker. I'd like to upgrade to a retractible, and so I need to sell my bird first. It's a great plane, reliable and fast thanks to the speed kit. If interested, just connect with the broker. See details below:
http://www.chiav.com/1969PA28180.html
Click to expand...

AOPA Vref gives an estimate around $35,800. NAAA Evaluator estimates around $35,500 with a range of $28,000 to $43,750. I may have overlooked something when I entered extras (not sure how much I should use for the speed kit,) but the ask price is definitely on the high side, if those tools are to be believed.

Looks like the engine SMOH eats into any value-add of the GNS 430.

(So to be honest, if I were ready to buy - and that plane would be close to what I'd be looking for - I wouldn't offer more than $37k, but I wish you the best of fortunes in selling it near the asking price. I get the impression used airplane prices may have bottomed, or at least leveled off, in the last couple months.)
 
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Jim, this is a Celebrity Plane. :D
 
Am I the only one that gets a bit bugged when people crap on the value of a plane that has been put up for sale here? The Classifieds are supposed to hold posts like this.

Maybe its just me, but it seems that unless you have 1st hand (or 2nd hand) knowledge of a problem of the plane, perhaps best bet might be to avoid saying things like "That's overpriced," or "I'd never pay that!"

Bias alert: I sold my share in my old Cherokee through PoA. If it had been filled with posts like this, I think I would have had difficulty.
 
SkyHog said:
Am I the only one that gets a bit bugged when people crap on the value of a plane that has been put up for sale here? The Classifieds are supposed to hold posts like this.

Maybe its just me, but it seems that unless you have 1st hand (or 2nd hand) knowledge of a problem of the plane, perhaps best bet might be to avoid saying things like "That's overpriced," or "I'd never pay that!"

Bias alert: I sold my share in my old Cherokee through PoA. If it had been filled with posts like this, I think I would have had difficulty.
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Agree 100%. To comment on the asking price in a public forum is irresponsible. Classified ads are not asking for comments on the vale, the owner is trying to sell it. :nono:
 
SkyHog said:
Am I the only one that gets a bit bugged when people crap on the value of a plane that has been put up for sale here? The Classifieds are supposed to hold posts like this.

Maybe its just me, but it seems that unless you have 1st hand (or 2nd hand) knowledge of a problem of the plane, perhaps best bet might be to avoid saying things like "That's overpriced," or "I'd never pay that!"

Bias alert: I sold my share in my old Cherokee through PoA. If it had been filled with posts like this, I think I would have had difficulty.
Click to expand...

Agree. Which is why I wouldn't post my plane on a forum like this - to have the price or other aspects of it dissected (for better or worse) with the same fervor as many regular forum posts. Buncha piranhas. :rolleyes:
 
I would even think the poster of the lower estimated value could be held financially liable for the difference in this asking price and the lower stated estimate. After all the OP did give it to a broker who I assume did an appraisal. :mad2:
 
Very few brokers are appraisers, and appraisers can't legitimately perform appraisals for airplanes in which they have a financial stake (fee or commission.) Do you believe the appraisal from the jewelry store when you buy a diamond from them?

What possible claim could a seller assert against a person who reads a publicly-posted for-sale ad and opines that the asking price is too high?

It's laughable to see the naivete of the poster who went to great pains to publish the results of his in-depth "valuation" of a listed airplane that he's never seen, knows absolutely nothing about and while using data that is at least 90 days old and with no idea how the information was was accumulated and published.

Why are the majority of posts regarding airplanes for sale authored by the all-hat no-cattle experts who purport to know their values but never seem to have the whip-out to buy them?



Geico266 said:
I would even think the poster of the lower estimated value could be held financially liable for the difference in this asking price and the lower stated estimate. After all the OP did give it to a broker who I assume did an appraisal. :mad2:
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Sweet Joseph on a donkey, if you can't stand the prospect of getting burned, get out of the kitchen.

I am in the market for a -28-180, albeit a low end 180, or a ratted out post '68 180. I have the cash on hand to make such purchase TODAY. And though I bit my tongue when I first saw the ad, because I did think the seller would get his butt hurt when I verbalized my offer, I think the poster in question about shacked it price wise. In my mind, 35K was exactly what I would have been willing to offer this seller. When I looked at the differential between that and asking price I certainly got the same feeling that in this economy that plane won't sell for that.

Who cares what you're feelings are about it. That airplane will sell to people who go to the OP and tell him/her 'I'll give you X for it". Any mambi pambi "oh how rude.." indignations are just as "cattleless" as the supposed tire kickers publicly snickering over the listed price. That plane is not worth jack, it's worth what someone else is willing to pay for it. Since Im in the market and have cash on hand, *I* say that plane is worth 35K tops. 35K is a lot of keish in this economy... Who needs its more badly, the guy buying it or the guy selling it? I know the answer to that one, because even though it's an ok airplane (these things are all relics) I passed on it and don't feel rushed.

I sold a 150 earlier this year. I didn't have any of the hangups displayed on this thread. I got low ball offers and I was not one bit offended by it. I ended up selling it two grand less for what I paid for it. Boo freggin hoo. I would have been willing to let it go for a 25% discount off purchase price if relocation time had come and I was still holding on to it. I didn't buy the thing for it to be my retirement investment vehicle or my life partner, for me to get all bent out of shape about a sale. Everything is worth what someone else is willing to pay for it.

Is the 430 worth 10K in this context? Nope, which is why you don't put a diamond on a cheap setting with the intention of selling the setting. This is not news. It's a fine plane, but Im not willing to pay 40K for it, I'd be willing to pay 35K. But like I said, Im looking at under 30K 180s, so I would think I would be wasting the seller's time by offering a cash offer in the 20s, since that's what Im looking for. I recognize the value of that airplane to be more than what the price point im looking for. Again, everything is worth only what another person is willing to pay for it.

Did Costco ran out of Vagisil this week or something?...
 
hindsight2020 said:
Sweet Joseph on a donkey, if you can't stand the prospect of getting burned, get out of the kitchen.

I am in the market for a -28-180, albeit a low end 180, or a ratted out post '68 180. I have the cash on hand to make such purchase TODAY. And though I bit my tongue when I first saw the ad, because I did think the seller would get his butt hurt when I verbalized my offer, I think the poster in question about shacked it price wise. In my mind, 35K was exactly what I would have been willing to offer this seller. When I looked at the differential between that and asking price I certainly got the same feeling that in this economy that plane won't sell for that.

Who cares what you're feelings are about it. That airplane will sell to people who go to the OP and tell him/her 'I'll give you X for it". Any mambi pambi "oh how rude.." indignations are just as "cattleless" as the supposed tire kickers publicly snickering over the listed price. That plane is not worth jack, it's worth what someone else is willing to pay for it. Since Im in the market and have cash on hand, *I* say that plane is worth 35K tops. 35K is a lot of keish in this economy... Who needs its more badly, the guy buying it or the guy selling it? I know the answer to that one, because even though it's an ok airplane (these things are all relics) I passed on it and don't feel rushed.

I sold a 150 earlier this year. I didn't have any of the hangups displayed on this thread. I got low ball offers and I was not one bit offended by it. I ended up selling it two grand less for what I paid for it. Boo freggin hoo. I would have been willing to let it go for a 25% discount off purchase price if relocation time had come and I was still holding on to it. I didn't buy the thing for it to be my retirement investment vehicle or my life partner, for me to get all bent out of shape about a sale. Everything is worth what someone else is willing to pay for it.

Is the 430 worth 10K in this context? Nope, which is why you don't put a diamond on a cheap setting with the intention of selling the setting. This is not news. It's a fine plane, but Im not willing to pay 40K for it, I'd be willing to pay 35K. But like I said, Im looking at under 30K 180s, so I would think I would be wasting the seller's time by offering a cash offer in the 20s, since that's what Im looking for. I recognize the value of that airplane to be more than what the price point im looking for. Again, everything is worth only what another person is willing to pay for it.

Did Costco ran out of Vagisil this week or something?...
Click to expand...

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
 
hindsight2020 said:
Sweet Joseph on a donkey, if you can't stand the prospect of getting burned, get out of the kitchen.

I am in the market for a -28-180, albeit a low end 180, or a ratted out post '68 180. I have the cash on hand to make such purchase TODAY. And though I bit my tongue when I first saw the ad, because I did think the seller would get his butt hurt when I verbalized my offer, I think the poster in question about shacked it price wise. In my mind, 35K was exactly what I would have been willing to offer this seller. When I looked at the differential between that and asking price I certainly got the same feeling that in this economy that plane won't sell for that.

Who cares what you're feelings are about it. That airplane will sell to people who go to the OP and tell him/her 'I'll give you X for it". Any mambi pambi "oh how rude.." indignations are just as "cattleless" as the supposed tire kickers publicly snickering over the listed price. That plane is not worth jack, it's worth what someone else is willing to pay for it. Since Im in the market and have cash on hand, *I* say that plane is worth 35K tops. 35K is a lot of keish in this economy... Who needs its more badly, the guy buying it or the guy selling it? I know the answer to that one, because even though it's an ok airplane (these things are all relics) I passed on it and don't feel rushed.

I sold a 150 earlier this year. I didn't have any of the hangups displayed on this thread. I got low ball offers and I was not one bit offended by it. I ended up selling it two grand less for what I paid for it. Boo freggin hoo. I would have been willing to let it go for a 25% discount off purchase price if relocation time had come and I was still holding on to it. I didn't buy the thing for it to be my retirement investment vehicle or my life partner, for me to get all bent out of shape about a sale. Everything is worth what someone else is willing to pay for it.

Is the 430 worth 10K in this context? Nope, which is why you don't put a diamond on a cheap setting with the intention of selling the setting. This is not news. It's a fine plane, but Im not willing to pay 40K for it, I'd be willing to pay 35K. But like I said, Im looking at under 30K 180s, so I would think I would be wasting the seller's time by offering a cash offer in the 20s, since that's what Im looking for. I recognize the value of that airplane to be more than what the price point im looking for. Again, everything is worth only what another person is willing to pay for it.

Did Costco ran out of Vagisil this week or something?...
Click to expand...

So then offer him $35,000 or stfu. No need to publicly reduce the value of his plane when you weren't going to buy it anyway....
 
SkyHog said:
Am I the only one that gets a bit bugged when people crap on the value of a plane that has been put up for sale here? The Classifieds are supposed to hold posts like this.
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No, you are NOT alone. That Cessna 150 I posted for a friend is worth what he's asking and I know it... I could walk out and sit in it right now if I wanted to.

Ryan
 
Geico266 said:
Agree 100%. To comment on the asking price in a public forum is irresponsible. Classified ads are not asking for comments on the vale, the owner is trying to sell it. :nono:
Click to expand...

I'm terribly sorry you feel that way, but if you review past classified ad threads, You will find that people have commented negatively on asking prices. For example, in this thread:

http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=45568

In still other classified threads, people have commented positively on the value of the item being sold, yet no one, even yourself, said they were inappropriate, as in this thread:

http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44443

I could not find anything in the PoA Rules of Conduct that would suggest what I did was against the rules. I tried to use as impersonal and objective references as I could find in support of my observations. I noted that I may have missed something in trying to use those tools and wished the seller the best. Lastly, I stated that I may be close to becoming a buyer soon, hence my interest and reason for commenting.

So I do not believe I was being irresponsible or doing anything new or unique.
 
SkyHog said:
Am I the only one that gets a bit bugged when people crap on the value of a plane that has been put up for sale here? The Classifieds are supposed to hold posts like this.

Maybe its just me, but it seems that unless you have 1st hand (or 2nd hand) knowledge of a problem of the plane, perhaps best bet might be to avoid saying things like "That's overpriced," or "I'd never pay that!"

Bias alert: I sold my share in my old Cherokee through PoA. If it had been filled with posts like this, I think I would have had difficulty.
Click to expand...

Obviously you are not alone in insisting on either no comments or accepting only positive comments on services and merchandise offered in the classifieds. I thought it was clear from the composition of my post that I was using only the information published online. My own bias is as a future potential purchaser. If I posted a "Wanted to buy" ad in the classifieds for a 1976 or later IFR equipped Piper Cherokee 180 with GPS and low time engine and airframe for under $30k, I would fully expect comments pointing out my wishful thinking, even in this market.
 
So your contention is that damning with faint praise isn't precluded by the POA rulebook?

Jim Logajan said:
I'm terribly sorry you feel that way, but if you review past classified ad threads, You will find that people have commented negatively on asking prices. For example, in this thread:

http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=45568

In still other classified threads, people have commented positively on the value of the item being sold, yet no one, even yourself, said they were inappropriate, as in this thread:

http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44443

I could not find anything in the PoA Rules of Conduct that would suggest what I did was against the rules. I tried to use as impersonal and objective references as I could find in support of my observations. I noted that I may have missed something in trying to use those tools and wished the seller the best. Lastly, I stated that I may be close to becoming a buyer soon, hence my interest and reason for commenting.

So I do not believe I was being irresponsible or doing anything new or unique.
Click to expand...
 
Just step back from the bar real slow, boys, keep your hands in plain sight and nobody gets hurt. Johnny Ringo is back in town with a fistful of nuggets and ready to teach you sod-busters a thing or two about moving up in the airplane business.

hindsight2020 said:
Sweet Joseph on a donkey, if you can't stand the prospect of getting burned, get out of the kitchen.

I am in the market for a -28-180, albeit a low end 180, or a ratted out post '68 180. I have the cash on hand to make such purchase TODAY. ...
Click to expand...
 
wabower said:
So your contention is that damning with faint praise isn't precluded by the POA rulebook?
Click to expand...

Someone of allegedly vast experience wrote that I am a naive poster, so doesn't that settle the matter?
 
Can we **** and moan at each other in another thread? This guy is trying to sell an airplane.
 
Jim Logajan said:
Obviously you are not alone in insisting on either no comments or accepting only positive comments on services and merchandise offered in the classifieds. I thought it was clear from the composition of my post that I was using only the information published online. My own bias is as a future potential purchaser. If I posted a "Wanted to buy" ad in the classifieds for a 1976 or later IFR equipped Piper Cherokee 180 with GPS and low time engine and airframe for under $30k, I would fully expect comments pointing out my wishful thinking, even in this market.
Click to expand...

Lets say for a minute you buy an airplane. You fly it for 10 years and now it is time to sell it. You list it with a broker and publish it on POA for what you believe to be a fair price plus a llittle fudge factor so you can reduce tthe price and let the buyer feel he is getting a deal. They someone posts on line, in your classified ad that your plane is $10k over priced witout ever laying eyes on your plane.

That person would be totally irresponsible.
 
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Rotor&Wing said:
This is a perfect thread for reasons not to use a forum to sell anything (classifieds).
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Other forums I am on have strict written and unwritten policies about negative comments about items being sold it the classified section. From cars, boats, rvs, to airplanes, I have never seen it acceptable to run down the price a seller is asking.

If you are in the market make an offer privately. If you know the airplane make a positive comment or make no comment at all. Certainly, do not comment of the price unless you say it is a steal at this price.

This is only common courtesy airplane owners should share.

JMHO.
 
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Fat chance of that happening here, especially after the posts by the "I'm not a prospect but if I were" low-ballers, bottom-fishers and pseudo-research-expert piszsants.

jason said:
Can we **** and moan at each other in another thread? This guy is trying to sell an airplane.
Click to expand...
 
Geico266 said:
Other forums I am on have strict written and unwritten policies about negative comments about items being sold it the classified section. From cars, boats, rvs, to airplanes, I have never seen it acceptable to run down the price a seller is asking.

If you are in the market make an offer privately. If you know the airplane make a positive comment or make no comment at all. Certainly, do not comment of the price unless you say it is a steal at this price.

This is only common courtesy airplane owners should share.

JMHO.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't go that far - if you have a reason to bring something up, even if its negative, as a community, I think we should be able to discuss that.

For example, "Note - this airplane's rigging is all messed up."

But not "I'm a cheapskate, and I don't want to pay that much, so you're asking too much." That's uncalled for.
 
jason said:
Can we **** and moan at each other in another thread? This guy is trying to sell an airplane.
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Well, it's not all bad, at least all the banter is keeping the thread near the top of the "new posts" list. ;)
 
I do not agree with the "no comments / no slamming" listings rules generally, but I understand I am in the minority, so I refrain from doing this as a courtesy. I end up biting my tongue on a lot of ridiculous postings -- this thread's plane not included (I have no opinion on the OP cherokee or its valuation :) )

However, the one comment about "lowering the value of a plane with comments" is striking to me -- if the buyers are so impressionable out there, why is there no similar distaste for the "omg gorgeous plane! that will sell in 2 nanoseconds! i cant believe that's still on the market!" comments -- which I think should be just as irksome.

No dog in the fight -- but never understood this point of view. Maybe there should be a subforum where people can post links to plane ads and us in the peanut gallery can all give it the horse's laugh publicly from our comfy armchairs. I would spend a lot of time in such a forum, and would derive a lot of pleasure, and possibly learn something about certain plane types that I would not have otherwise :) Plus I would learn what the "mob" generally values -- as someone who buys/sells planes frequently, this is tough to get a feel for, other than just jumping in and learning, which is sometimes expensive.

$0.02

- Mike
 
schmookeeg said:
I do not agree with the "no comments / no slamming" listings rules generally, but I understand I am in the minority, so I refrain from doing this as a courtesy. I end up biting my tongue on a lot of ridiculous postings -- this thread's plane not included (I have no opinion on the OP cherokee or its valuation :) )

However, the one comment about "lowering the value of a plane with comments" is striking to me -- if the buyers are so impressionable out there, why is there no similar distaste for the "omg gorgeous plane! that will sell in 2 nanoseconds! i cant believe that's still on the market!" comments -- which I think should be just as irksome.

No dog in the fight -- but never understood this point of view. Maybe there should be a subforum where people can post links to plane ads and us in the peanut gallery can all give it the horse's laugh publicly from our comfy armchairs. I would spend a lot of time in such a forum, and would derive a lot of pleasure, and possibly learn something about certain plane types that I would not have otherwise :) Plus I would learn what the "mob" generally values -- as someone who buys/sells planes frequently, this is tough to get a feel for, other than just jumping in and learning, which is sometimes expensive.

$0.02

- Mike
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I've discovered that most planes on the internet are POS according to the peanut gallery, unless of course the plane in question happens to be yours then it's worth about 30% over market value.

As far as OPs plane, it looks like a plane I'd like to have except the yoke multiple personality disorder :). If anyone has gone to the trouble of having a the not so subtle upgrades that this one has they'll realize the value, first time plane buyer that hasn't suffered though the paperwork, time and money likely won't. If I were in the market for a nice 180, I'd shoot him a reasonable offer.

OTOH OP has probably gotten 20 time more views because of the negativity and criticism of the negativity than he otherwise would have :).
 
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