182 Gear Up Video.. Ouch.

Yea that gear warning horn is pretty annoying. Its amazing how almost anything can be tuned out though
 
tonycondon said:
Yea that gear warning horn is pretty annoying. Its amazing how almost anything can be tuned out though
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Yep if you get used to flying around with it blaring you eventually tune it out. The 172RG I fly from time to time has a horn that blows a lot and I have tuned it out several times. But at least I am doing about 4 GUMPS before landing and never have forgotten the gear.
 
smigaldi said:
Yep if you get used to flying around with it blaring you eventually tune it out. The 172RG I fly from time to time has a horn that blows a lot and I have tuned it out several times. But at least I am doing about 4 GUMPS before landing and never have forgotten the gear.
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But in this case ALL THREE people tuned it out. The guy in the back with the camera had to know something was up when he filmed the invisible gear.

Dan
 
smigaldi said:
You know when he turned his head and saw the gear was not down why not shout "GO AROUND!" ???
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The "passengers" were clearly along for the ride. In this flight, so was the pilot.

When I first began flying the R182 for CPL training, I had a couple flights where I had gotten complacent on the gear warning horn. I quickly learned when the throttle is down to twelve inches and/or the flaps exceed twenty-five degrees, I need to consider the gear. Do I need them for this maneuver? In a steep spiral, no. But, that horn is going to be blaring just the same.

I had one guy trying to teach power-off 180's with not putting the gear down until on short final. That was odd to me and he turned out to be a lone minority on that issue. I've learned to stick with a procedure; as soon as I'm downwind, the gear is down. If I'm shooting an approach, it's down on the IAF or outer marker. If I'm at pattern altitude or lower and that horn is sounding, I'm nowhere near ahead of the plane.

In thinking back to the threads on a plane with a fake gear lever along with a recent article in one of the journals, that was a mistake leading to huge problems. There's no effect on flight in putting the "gear down" and no consequence in landing "gear up." But, the negative learning of that "procedure" can be disastrous.
 
Me thinks maybe he knew it was a gear up.But, If so so would no:lightning: t the grass be a better option?
 
jpflys said:
Me thinks maybe he knew it was a gear up.But, If so so would no:lightning: t the grass be a better option?
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Nope... he ran the engine right up through the end. Ya don't want a prop striking the pavement (or ground) on "roll out." There was an appearance of frustration when he grabbed the glare shield.

I heard a story about a check ride examinee who landed at Fernandina Beach, gear up. The prop struck and the runway and the pilot pulled up to "go around." The DPE grabbed the controls and immediately put the plane back on the runway and slid on down. Once the prop strikes, it stands a good chance of being torn loose from the mounts between being out of position and/or the prop itself being out of balance. Hopefully, we'll never see a video of an engine separating after just a gear-up landing.
 
KennyFlys said:
Nope... he ran the engine right up through the end. Ya don't want a prop striking the pavement (or ground) on "roll out." There was an appearance of frustration when he grabbed the glare shield.
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I agree on the appearance of frustration, but I do not, and will not ever agree with the idea that one "must" or "mustn't" stop the propeller before a gear up.

It is a purely situational thing. If you are too busy trying to land the plane safely to reach over and cut the mixture - then don't.

The only dumb mistake one can make is to try to cut the mixture when the airplane needs full attention....
 
SkyHog said:
I agree on the appearance of frustration, but I do not, and will not ever agree with the idea that one "must" or "mustn't" stop the propeller before a gear up.

It is a purely situational thing. If you are too busy trying to land the plane safely to reach over and cut the mixture - then don't.

The only dumb mistake one can make is to try to cut the mixture when the airplane needs full attention....
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I agree. I was speaking to ideal procedures. If you had a gear issues and were forced to land gear up, I'm thinking it might be safer to treat it as a power-off landing, in the grass if at all possible. Procedures even suggest landing gear up if terrain is too rough. But, above all... "Fly the dang plane!"
 
KennyFlys said:
I agree. I was speaking to ideal procedures. If you had a gear issues and were forced to land gear up, I'm thinking it might be safer to treat it as a power-off landing, in the grass if at all possible. Procedures even suggest landing gear up if terrain is too rough. But, above all... "Fly the dang plane!"
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Better to land gear up on the pavement than the grass. Less damage will be done by the runway.
 
KennyFlys said:
I agree. I was speaking to ideal procedures. If you had a gear issues and were forced to land gear up, I'm thinking it might be safer to treat it as a power-off landing, in the grass if at all possible. Procedures even suggest landing gear up if terrain is too rough. But, above all... "Fly the dang plane!"
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Shutting the engine down and landing on grass is the most common misconecption with gear up landings people make, please don't do it.

The most accepted procedure is that you do not shut the engine down and you land on a large paved runway. Way too many people have attempted to land gear up with the engine shut down and have ended up short of the runway or seriously hurting themselves (stall 10 feet up and you're in a world of hurt with no gear).

Grass is also considered by most to be a bad idea. There is a lot of potential for something on the airplane to get hung up in the softer grass. If you nosed over it may catch and flip you.

If I am flying a complex airplane and the gear won't extend I am going to fly to the largest paved runway with emergency services. First off I want to burn off any excess fuel and have plenty of help if something doesn't go right. I will fly the airplane down to the runway and pull power to idle and bleed off airspeed down the runway. If everything is looking good and I only have a foot left I might shut it down. Most likely though I am going to wait until the wheels or airplane/engine hit.

The last thing you want to do in an emergency is make the situation worse. If you shut the engine down in the air you now have an engine failure and gear failure to deal with. I'd rather only have to deal with one of them at a time. If you mess the flare up a little or start to come down too hard you aren't going to have any way to undo it. Now you're gear up has just became a crash landing with the gear folded up instead of a controlled landing.

The prop hitting the runway does not put you out of control. Many many pilots have geared up with the above procedure and I've never read a NTSB report where someone was hurt. Stalling 20 feet up or catching the nose in the grass followed by flip plus spark plus fuel on the other hand will kill you.

Don't forget to shut off the electrics and the fuel.

Insurance companies can buy new airplanes.
 
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Hmmmm........................Sounds pretty suspicious to me............. not a single "Oh s**t" or "G*d d**n it". I'd think one would drown out the gear warning horn on touch down. I know I would. But hey, I'm just a student with fixed gear, what do I know?
 
KennyFlys said:
I agree. I was speaking to ideal procedures. If you had a gear issues and were forced to land gear up, I'm thinking it might be safer to treat it as a power-off landing, in the grass if at all possible. Procedures even suggest landing gear up if terrain is too rough. But, above all... "Fly the dang plane!"
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Kenny,

I hope that when you say "power off" you really mean throttle at idle and not "engine out" Most sane pilots would consider a gear failure to be an emergency, why create another emergency in the process?

When I had my gear failure, I landed using textbook soft field technique on a paved runway. When the nosegear collapsed we slid for maybe a second. Doubt we went further than 20 feet. No way I woulda wanted to do that on grass. Nose woulda dug in, we probably woulda flipped. Plus on the rough terrain the nose gear wouldnt have held for as long as it did so it wouldve collapsed at a higher speed. In short it woulda been ugly. Even if none of the gear wouldve came down, pavement would still be your best bet. In that video I doubt they slid much further than 100 feet. In all the videos Ive seen of cessna retracts ive never seen one dig a wingtip in when landing on pavement. heck usually the wing doesnt even contact after stopping. In grass it would just be too plain easy for something to catch in soft dirt and start some rotation. That is where you enter a world of ****.

Listen to CFIcast #1. available on www.pilotcast.com Rick Durden, Ron, Chip, Jason Miller and I discussed my gear incident in detail. Rick has done a lot of research on the subject and written at least one excellent article on the topic on avweb.com
 
KennyFlys said:
Nope... he ran the engine right up through the end. Ya don't want a prop striking the pavement (or ground) on "roll out."
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IMHO, you always run the engine until the plane is too slow to fly any more even with it. The insurance company already bought you a new engine, so don't kill yourself trying to save it! Better to have the insurance company tear down your engine(s) than to have the plane totaled.

I'll have to dig up the NTSB report from the accident (a 310, I think) where they knew they were going to have to gear it up. They stopped and feathered both engines on final, and ended up 1/2 mile short of the runway.

I know there must be an incredible urge to save the plane as much as possible, but frankly, at some point you have to realize that the insurance company already owns it, and make the safest landing possible.
 
SkyHog said:
I agree on the appearance of frustration, but I do not, and will not ever agree with the idea that one "must" or "mustn't" stop the propeller before a gear up.

It is a purely situational thing. If you are too busy trying to land the plane safely to reach over and cut the mixture - then don't.

The only dumb mistake one can make is to try to cut the mixture when the airplane needs full attention....
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Rick Durden said there has never been a gear up fatality when they kept the engine running.
 
mikea said:
Rick Durden said there has never been a gear up fatality when they kept the engine running.
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Mike beat me to it. We discussed this in the podcast. Rick had written an article about gear up landings a while back that included this tidbit, and it was something that went through my mind when the green light wouldnt come on in October.
 
KennyFlys said:
in the grass if at all possible.
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You'd think, at first guess... But wait 'til your prop digs into the dirt (and probably off center when it does) and you go nosing over, groundlooping, cartwheeling, and rip the wings off the plane.

It's noisier on pavement, but the plane will be fine. The local rental Arrow was gear-upped in late August and was back on the line in about 6 weeks.
 
smigaldi said:
Yep if you get used to flying around with it blaring you eventually tune it out. The 172RG I fly from time to time has a horn that blows a lot and I have tuned it out several times. But at least I am doing about 4 GUMPS before landing and never have forgotten the gear.
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My latest addition to the avionics in the Baron has a feature that chants "Check Gear Down" in my headphones if I manage to activate the gear warning horn. Hopefully that will be even harder to ignore than the pulsing horn itself.
 
From the sounds of it Lance, anyone who can understand english can pretty succesfully fly your plane :) sounds like you are having fun with the voice warnings.
 
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tonycondon said:
From the sounds of it Lance, anyone who can understand english can pretty succesfully fly your plane Lance :) sounds like you are having fun with the voice warnings.
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CHECK ALTITUDE
TRAFFIC TRAFFIC
CHECK ALTITUDE
GUMPS
CHECK GEAR
TRAFFIC TRAFFIC
GUMPS
GROUND MODE ON

I'd make a few new audio warnings like a: "You are so ****ed" if both engines quit..Have some fun with it.
 
There are notes with the video if you click more on the right hand side.

This video was taken by Paul Wingo, who was sitting in the back. I have uploaded it here WITH HIS WRITTEN PERMISSION.

Cessna 182 Skylane RG

Charles W. Baker Airport
USA January , 2007

From Paul Wingo:

"There was a snow storm approaching in about an hour and we were doing a check ride. Because of possible ice, we had been flying with the gear down the entire time. We started doing touch and goes after a while. Habit when you take off is to raise the gear. This is what happened. So, when we come around, they were conversing and what not and simply forgot the gear was up. The prop got bent up pretty bad along with the belly of the plane."
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I'm combining two separate problems and causing more confusion. That last post I rushed and didn't proofread what I'd said. The following is what I've been taught.

On a lost engine landing and your option is a rough field or just rough terrain, land with the gear up. Otherwise, the gear will dig into terrain, be it a plowed field, very rough surface with pits, etc.

If you have gear stuck in retracted position and no means to force them down, land on the smoothest surface possible. Obviously, a runway. Only if you're stable and landing is assured well beyond the threshold, shut down the engine. There was a video a while back (posted here, I think?) showing a twin landing with gear up and shutting down both engines before he flared. I've been taught to do the same in a single engine but it's a last minute action, if at all. Fly the airplane, first.

But should you land gear up by accident, don't attempt to pull up again and go around. The damage has been done by the prop strike and the engine and prop are unstable to continue running.

Again, this is what I've been taught. I freely admit not everything I've been taught is perfect. The broader base of experience is on the younger side. I'll have to read more about various scenarios and what's most recommended.
 
N6399A wrote:
"Hmmmm........................Sounds pretty suspicious to me............. not a single "Oh s**t" or "G*d d**n it". I'd think one would drown out the gear warning horn on touch down. I know I would. But hey, I'm just a student with fixed gear, what do I know?"
Shock and Disbelief will sometimes cancel out the more natural, human retort when things go wrong. When you're expecting it...THAT's when the invective will pop out (sometimes with comical results...).
And BTW; everyone on this board is a Student Pilot...some have just been students for a long, long time...



This is only one of the reasons I'm happy about having "down and welded" gear...

Of course; I can always put the gear up after takeoff...just roll her inverted!:D Of course, the tower gets cranky if this is done without the aerobatic box being open at the time...:rofl:

What REALLY get me steamed is the gear-up by the 182 looks smoother than some of my landings last weekend...
But you didn't need to know that, did you???

Chris
Hiperbipe 777HT
 
KennyFlys said:
I'm combining two separate problems and causing more confusion. That last post I rushed and didn't proofread what I'd said. The following is what I've been taught.

On a lost engine landing and your option is a rough field or just rough terrain, land with the gear up. Otherwise, the gear will dig into terrain, be it a plowed field, very rough surface with pits, etc.

If you have gear stuck in retracted position and no means to force them down, land on the smoothest surface possible. Obviously, a runway. Only if you're stable and landing is assured well beyond the threshold, shut down the engine. There was a video a while back (posted here, I think?) showing a twin landing with gear up and shutting down both engines before he flared. I've been taught to do the same in a single engine but it's a last minute action, if at all. Fly the airplane, first.

But should you land gear up by accident, don't attempt to pull up again and go around. The damage has been done by the prop strike and the engine and prop are unstable to continue running.

Again, this is what I've been taught. I freely admit not everything I've been taught is perfect. The broader base of experience is on the younger side. I'll have to read more about various scenarios and what's most recommended.
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Sounds like you have been taught what I would teach. whew I was worried there for a second. Thanks for clarifying.
 
A C210 I use to rent was landed gear up during a commercial checkride.

In fact, that airframe experienced 6 gear up landings at various times before it crashed with a catastrophic engine failure on an IMC flight, with an engine installed subsequent to its last gear up incident.

No, it wasn't me....

jesse said:
There are notes with the video if you click more on the right hand side.
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Perhaps this would have helped...
 

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I'm gonna suggest it to our airport manager. In fact, I think we should extend from the current 5,500 feet to 8,000 feet. Heck with the highway. Let them go around! :)
 
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