18 years ago today...

Ted

Ted

The pilot formerly known as Twin Engine Ted
Joined
Oct 9, 2007
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iFlyNothing
Roselawn.

Ice season is upon us. Be careful out there.
 
I have no idea what you are talking about, but I have a night flight over the Appalachians coming up next weekend, and I am going to brush up on icing info this week and next. I plan on buying access to a few of scottd's webinars.

Nevermind, I googled it.
 
I've done a number of night flights over the Appelachians in winter in the Aztec (and a few in the 310).

My advice: make sure it's VFR. The ice you can (and usually do) get around there can be pretty nasty, as can the mountain waves. Personally, if it's winter and I have to fly that route in IMC (especially at night), one needs de-ice. It's not like the midwest where a lot of times you can have IMC that's really not a thick cloud and without the moisture content to cause much for issues. Thems hills can be nasty.

Oh, and the mountain waves can (and do) still happen VFR, so those are still important to be aware of. Just with IMC they cause all kinds of fun with air currents and cause even more icing.
 
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Ted DuPuis said:
I've done a number of night flights over the Appelachians in winter in the Aztec (and a few in the 310).

My advice: make sure it's VFR. The ice you can (and usually do) get around there can be pretty nasty, as can the mountain waves. Personally, if it's winter and I have to fly that route in IMC (especially at night), one needs de-ice. It's not like the midwest where a lot of times you can have IMC that's really not a thick cloud and without the moisture content to cause much for issues. Thems hills can be nasty.

Oh, and the mountain waves can (and do) still happen VFR, so those are still important to be aware of. Just with IMC they cause all kinds of fun with air currents and cause even more icing.
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Thanks. Having never flown in clouds during the winter and only doing some reading about the subject, I don't plan on straying into clouds period unless its well above freezing, which I don't expect in november. I understand with experience its possible to learn what will produce ice and what won't, but over the mountains at night is not the place to learn.

I've experienced a mountain wave while flying east - west last winter after a cold front passage near mt. mitchell. I was at a safe altitude but it was still eye-opening. I imagine the mountain waves can cause warm air to go suddenly cold and vice versa?

my route is going to be ktta-kvji along the airways
 
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My experience over them thar hills is that if there's clouds and it's below freezing, there's ice.
 
Orthographic lifting can make for a wonderful ice machine. Out west where I live the Cascade Range is just flat ugly in winter. If I want to visit the Willamette valley the MEAs vary between 10 and 14k With wet air coming onshore and being vaulted into the cold sky rapid mixed icing is the norm.

There are two strategies that work well for me, even though the Q is FIKI certified. 1.) If conditions permit go direct VFR on top and descend through the ice into rain. 2.) Take a detour North and then down the Columbia Gorge where the MEA is lower and usually in rain. FIKI isn't magic. Mother Nature can build ice faster than man's machines can get rid of it. In most GA machines FIKI is a way out of trouble, not an excuse to get into it.
 
As tragic as the Roselawn accident was, it did spur the NTSB and FAA to start really studying icing, especially as it related to modern turboprops. The study, consisted of literally (and liberally) spraying several small airliners with ice in-flight until they were on the brink of disaster. What was shared with us line pilots is how to recognize severe ice. I know, it seems obvious, but the study revealed specific patterns of ice accretion for each type of airplane. For instance, it was learned the Saab 340 would get ice on the cockpit side windows and spinners. It wasn't uncommon to get ice on the spinners, but ice beyond a certain point on the spinner was an indication of severe ice...which is why today Saabs have a yellow ring painted on their spinners.
 
Agreed that FIKI isn't a license to get into trouble, just a tool for getting out. But if you don't have it...
 
Ice can happen anywhere but living in PA I've become acutely aware of how the alleghenys are like an ice factory. I have heard the same about the mountains in the northwest Washington state and Oregon.
 
AdamZ said:
Ice can happen anywhere but living in PA I've become acutely aware of how the alleghenys are like an ice factory. I have heard the same about the mountains in the northwest Washington state and Oregon.
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You've heard correctly. I drive a lot in the winter, rather than fly for that very reason.
 
Since we're celebrating aviation anniversaries, hundreds and maybe thousands of pilots and owners were killed during this same time-frame only 4 years ago. But it was at the bank.
 
Forecast for my flight over them thar hills on friday night looks good. Should be CAVU
 
The accident was on 10/31/1994. This sucks:

The junior flight attendant was hired by Simmons Airlines on October 6,
1994, and successfully completed her initial training in October on the Saab 340,
Shorts 360 and the ATR 42/72 airplanes. Flight 4184 was the first line trip for the
junior flight attendant.
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wabower said:
Since we're celebrating aviation anniversaries, hundreds and maybe thousands of pilots and owners were killed during this same time-frame only 4 years ago. But it was at the bank.
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Sigh, leave the childish issues out of the important issue threads.
 
Seems like I recall your complaints about the offers for your airplane being about half of your asking price not long ago. Do you have any idea which event precipitated the drop in values of all used planes and was perhaps the beginning of the end of the GA industry as we have known it?

Henning said:
Sigh, leave the childish issues out of the important issue threads.
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IDEAL flight training weather- warm surface, about 2000 ovc, ice until ~4100.....
Start that ILS from 4500, not 2300; learn how lame it is on one blower in ice even in a FIKI!!
 

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