100 hours revisited

Tom-D

Tom-D

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Tom-D
A CFI owns an aircraft, he uses it as personal transportation, gives instruction it, and allows others to rent it.

the annual was completed at 2300 hours, when is the next 100 hour inspection due?

1, 2400 hours?
2, when 100 hours of flight instruction has accumulated?
3, when 100 hours of rental time and instruction has accumulated.


next question

how does one separate the different times?
 
Tom-D said:
A CFI owns an aircraft, he uses it as personal transportation, gives instruction it, and allows others to rent it.

the annual was completed at 2300 hours, when is the next 100 hour inspection due?

1, 2400 hours?
2, when 100 hours of flight instruction has accumulated?
3, when 100 hours of rental time and instruction has accumulated.


next question

how does one separate the different times?
Click to expand...

Code of Federal Regulations Part 14
 
It's simple...if you take part in an activity that requires a 100 inspection, before conducting such activity, look back 100 hours in the logs, and if a 100 hour inspection or annual inspection have been logged, you're legal.
 
Someone get the popcorn.
 
Brad Z said:
It's simple...if you take part in an activity that requires a 100 inspection, before conducting such activity, look back 100 hours in the logs, and if a 100 hour inspection or annual inspection have been logged, you're legal.
Click to expand...

Exactly, none of the answers in the original question is correct.

Of course you do have the ten hour fudge to get the plane back to the maintenance base as well.

As to how to keep it straight, most places that need 100 hour just write the time of the last inspection someplace prominent (along with the date of the annual).

If you've got reasonable access to an IA, you can sign off the 100 hour that is due as annual as well.
 
To give Tom's questions a straight answer...
Tom-D said:
A CFI owns an aircraft, he uses it as personal transportation, gives instruction it, and allows others to rent it.

the annual was completed at 2300 hours, when is the next 100 hour inspection due?

1, 2400 hours?
2, when 100 hours of flight instruction has accumulated?
3, when 100 hours of rental time and instruction has accumulated.
Click to expand...
2400 hours. It's strictly total airframe time, not the use to which it has been put. The "10-hour fudge," as FRon calls it, does not affect when it's due, only allows an exception to the general rule.
how does one separate the different times?
Click to expand...
Moot question -- the type of use in the interim doesn't affect when the 100-hour is due for operations requiring it.
 
Ron Levy said:
To give Tom's questions a straight answer...
2400 hours. It's strictly total airframe time, not the use to which it has been put.
Click to expand...

Incorrect. The 100 hour is due every 100 hours; however, it only kicks in prior to for hire activity. So if flight at hour 100.1 is flight instruction, it is overdue; however, if hours 100-156 are personal transportation, the 100 hour is not required until the next for hire flight. Note that rental w/o CFI does not count as for hire.
 
warthog1984 said:
Incorrect. The 100 hour is due every 100 hours; however, it only kicks in prior to for hire activity. So if flight at hour 100.1 is flight instruction, it is overdue; however, if hours 100-156 are personal transportation, the 100 hour is not required until the next for hire flight. Note that rental w/o CFI does not count as for hire.
Click to expand...

Yep...
 
warthog1984 said:
Incorrect. The 100 hour is due every 100 hours; however, it only kicks in prior to for hire activity. So if flight at hour 100.1 is flight instruction, it is overdue; however, if hours 100-156 are personal transportation, the 100 hour is not required until the next for hire flight. Note that rental w/o CFI does not count as for hire.
Click to expand...

Correct, which is why BradZ had the best answer. If you are flying a CFI-providing-airplane flight or carrying-passengers-for-hire flight, then you need to look back to see if you've had a 100 hour or annual in the past 100 hours.

None of the answers in the original question are right nor any of CRon's.
 
I guess you could argue that hue he 100hr is due at 2400hrs but you could continue to fly it past that so long as the type of operation is not one that requires the 100hr
 
do the hours of private use between 2300 and 2400 count on the 100 inspection?
 
Tom-D said:
do the hours of private use between 2300 and 2400 count on the 100 inspection?
Click to expand...

Yes, you cannot use the plane "for higher" unless in the preceding 100hrs of operation it has had a 100hr. No exception is made for the type of operation.
 
That's interesting. So, you can get the 100 hour done, and fly for 100 hours for hire / rental / etc. 100 hour expires, you can use it for purposes that don't require a 100 hour. 100 hours later, you can get another 100 hour and fly for 100 hours for hire / rental / etc. Sure, the grace period for maintenance TECHNICALLY applies, but since you can start / stop using it for restricted reasons at any time, it becomes a funny number.

The 100 hour + grace period only seems to really matter in the private ownership world if you are continuously renting the aircraft out.

Thanks for asking this question.
 
Just don't forget any 100hr ADs that apply regardless of 100hr inspection status or type of usage.
 
warthog1984 said:
Incorrect. The 100 hour is due every 100 hours; however, it only kicks in prior to for hire activity. So if flight at hour 100.1 is flight instruction, it is overdue; however, if hours 100-156 are personal transportation, the 100 hour is not required until the next for hire flight. Note that rental w/o CFI does not count as for hire.
Click to expand...
You should have read my post more carefully and completely before incorrectly saying I was incorrect.
 
Skylane81E said:
Yes, you cannot use the plane "for higher" unless in the preceding 100hrs of operation it has had a 100hr. No exception is made for the type of operation.
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That is not true. Read the regulation again. "For hire" operations other than carrying passengers or providing flight training do not require 100-hour inspections.
 
Ron Levy said:
That is not true. Read the regulation again. "For hire" operations other than carrying passengers or providing flight training do not require 100-hour inspections.
Click to expand...


can anyone carry pax for hire in part 91 anymore? Don't they have to get a 135 certificate to hold out as a air taxi operator.
 
Last edited:
Tom-D said:
can anyone carry pax for hire in part 91 anymore? Don't they have to get a 135 certificate to hold out as a air taxi operator.
Click to expand...

You do need a 135 certificate to hold out to the public except for certain local sightseeing. However, you can fly for hire using private carriage as a part 91 operator. You'll need a 100-hour but no 135.
 
Tom-D said:
Isn't a Helicopter an aircraft ?

FAR 1.1

Aircraft means a device that is used or intended to be used for flight in the air.
Click to expand...

You're looking in the wrong place. This is covered under 14 CFR Part 119.

119.1 Applicability.

(a) This part applies to each person operating or intending to operate civil aircraft—
(1) As an air carrier or commercial operator, or both, in air commerce; or
(2) When common carriage is not involved, in operations of U.S.-registered civil airplanes with a seat configuration of 20 or more passengers, or a maximum payload capacity of 6,000 pounds or more.
(b) This part prescribes—
(1) The types of air operator certificates issued by the Federal Aviation Administration, including air carrier certificates and operating certificates;
(2) The certification requirements an operator must meet in order to obtain and hold a certificate authorizing operations under part 121, 125, or 135 of this chapter and operations specifications for each kind of operation to be conducted and each class and size of aircraft to be operated under part 121 or 135 of this chapter;
(3) The requirements an operator must meet to conduct operations under part 121, 125, or 135 of this chapter and in operating each class and size of aircraft authorized in its operations specifications;
(4) Requirements affecting wet leasing of aircraft and other arrangements for transportation by air;
(5) Requirements for obtaining deviation authority to perform operations under a military contract and obtaining deviation authority to perform an emergency operation; and
(6) Requirements for management personnel for operations conducted under part 121 or part 135 of this chapter.
(c) Persons subject to this part must comply with the other requirements of this chapter, except where those requirements are modified by or where additional requirements are imposed by part 119, 121, 125, or 135 of this chapter.
(d) This part does not govern operations conducted under part 91, subpart K (when common carriage is not involved) nor does it govern operations conducted under part 129, 133, 137, or 139 of this chapter.
(e) Except for operations when common carriage is not involved conducted with airplanes having a passenger-seat configuration of 20 seats or more, excluding any required crewmember seat, or a payload capacity of 6,000 pounds or more, this part does not apply to—
(1) Student instruction;
(2) Nonstop Commercial Air Tours conducted after September 11, 2007, in an airplane or helicopter having a standard airworthiness certificate and passenger-seat configuration of 30 seats or fewer and a maximum payload capacity of 7,500 pounds or less that begin and end at the same airport, and are conducted within a 25-statute mile radius of that airport, in compliance with the Letter of Authorization issued under §91.147 of this chapter. For nonstop Commercial Air Tours conducted in accordance with part 136, subpart B of this chapter, National Parks Air Tour Management, the requirements of part 119 of this chapter apply unless excepted in §136.37(g)(2). For Nonstop Commercial Air Tours conducted in the vicinity of the Grand Canyon National Park, Arizona, the requirements of SFAR 50-2, part 93, subpart U, and part 119 of this chapter, as applicable, apply.
(3) Ferry or training flights;
(4) Aerial work operations, including—
(i) Crop dusting, seeding, spraying, and bird chasing;
(ii) Banner towing;
(iii) Aerial photography or survey;
(iv) Fire fighting;
(v) Helicopter operations in construction or repair work (but it does apply to transportation to and from the site of operations); and
(vi) Powerline or pipeline patrol;
(5) Sightseeing flights conducted in hot air balloons;
(6) Nonstop flights conducted within a 25-statute-mile radius of the airport of takeoff carrying persons or objects for the purpose of conducting intentional parachute operations.
(7) Helicopter flights conducted within a 25 statute mile radius of the airport of takeoff if—
(i) Not more than two passengers are carried in the helicopter in addition to the required flightcrew;
(ii) Each flight is made under day VFR conditions;
(iii) The helicopter used is certificated in the standard category and complies with the 100-hour inspection requirements of part 91 of this chapter;
(iv) The operator notifies the FAA Flight Standards District Office responsible for the geographic area concerned at least 72 hours before each flight and furnishes any essential information that the office requests;
(v) The number of flights does not exceed a total of six in any calendar year;
(vi) Each flight has been approved by the Administrator; and
(vii) Cargo is not carried in or on the helicopter;
(8) Operations conducted under part 133 of this chapter or 375 of this title;
(9) Emergency mail service conducted under 49 U.S.C. 41906; or
(10) Operations conducted under the provisions of §91.321 of this chapter.

 
Tom-D said:
can anyone carry pax for hire in part 91 anymore?
Click to expand...
Yes. Well, not just anyone, but someone properly certificated and approved as necessary for such operations.

Don't they have to get a 135 certificate to hold out as a air taxi operator.
Click to expand...
Yes, but not all passenger for hire operations are air taxi operations.

See 91.147 regarding certain sightseeing rides, which are not 135 operations, but are for-hire passenger flights and do require 100-hour inspections (among other things).
 
Last edited:
RotorAndWing said:
You're looking in the wrong place. This is covered under 14 CFR Part 119.

119.1 Applicability.

(a) This part applies to each person operating or intending to operate civil aircraft—
(1) As an air carrier or commercial operator, or both, in air commerce; or
(2) When common carriage is not involved, in operations of U.S.-registered civil airplanes with a seat configuration of 20 or more passengers, or a maximum payload capacity of 6,000 pounds or more.
(b) This part prescribes—
(1) The types of air operator certificates issued by the Federal Aviation Administration, including air carrier certificates and operating certificates;
(2) The certification requirements an operator must meet in order to obtain and hold a certificate authorizing operations under part 121, 125, or 135 of this chapter and operations specifications for each kind of operation to be conducted and each class and size of aircraft to be operated under part 121 or 135 of this chapter;
(3) The requirements an operator must meet to conduct operations under part 121, 125, or 135 of this chapter and in operating each class and size of aircraft authorized in its operations specifications;
(4) Requirements affecting wet leasing of aircraft and other arrangements for transportation by air;
(5) Requirements for obtaining deviation authority to perform operations under a military contract and obtaining deviation authority to perform an emergency operation; and
(6) Requirements for management personnel for operations conducted under part 121 or part 135 of this chapter.
(c) Persons subject to this part must comply with the other requirements of this chapter, except where those requirements are modified by or where additional requirements are imposed by part 119, 121, 125, or 135 of this chapter.
(d) This part does not govern operations conducted under part 91, subpart K (when common carriage is not involved) nor does it govern operations conducted under part 129, 133, 137, or 139 of this chapter.
(e) Except for operations when common carriage is not involved conducted with airplanes having a passenger-seat configuration of 20 seats or more, excluding any required crewmember seat, or a payload capacity of 6,000 pounds or more, this part does not apply to—
(1) Student instruction;
(2) Nonstop Commercial Air Tours conducted after September 11, 2007, in an airplane or helicopter having a standard airworthiness certificate and passenger-seat configuration of 30 seats or fewer and a maximum payload capacity of 7,500 pounds or less that begin and end at the same airport, and are conducted within a 25-statute mile radius of that airport, in compliance with the Letter of Authorization issued under §91.147 of this chapter. For nonstop Commercial Air Tours conducted in accordance with part 136, subpart B of this chapter, National Parks Air Tour Management, the requirements of part 119 of this chapter apply unless excepted in §136.37(g)(2). For Nonstop Commercial Air Tours conducted in the vicinity of the Grand Canyon National Park, Arizona, the requirements of SFAR 50-2, part 93, subpart U, and part 119 of this chapter, as applicable, apply.
(3) Ferry or training flights;
(4) Aerial work operations, including—
(i) Crop dusting, seeding, spraying, and bird chasing;
(ii) Banner towing;
(iii) Aerial photography or survey;
(iv) Fire fighting;
(v) Helicopter operations in construction or repair work (but it does apply to transportation to and from the site of operations); and
(vi) Powerline or pipeline patrol;
(5) Sightseeing flights conducted in hot air balloons;
(6) Nonstop flights conducted within a 25-statute-mile radius of the airport of takeoff carrying persons or objects for the purpose of conducting intentional parachute operations.
(7) Helicopter flights conducted within a 25 statute mile radius of the airport of takeoff if—
(i) Not more than two passengers are carried in the helicopter in addition to the required flightcrew;
(ii) Each flight is made under day VFR conditions;
(iii) The helicopter used is certificated in the standard category and complies with the 100-hour inspection requirements of part 91 of this chapter;
(iv) The operator notifies the FAA Flight Standards District Office responsible for the geographic area concerned at least 72 hours before each flight and furnishes any essential information that the office requests;
(v) The number of flights does not exceed a total of six in any calendar year;
(vi) Each flight has been approved by the Administrator; and
(vii) Cargo is not carried in or on the helicopter;
(8) Operations conducted under part 133 of this chapter or 375 of this title;
(9) Emergency mail service conducted under 49 U.S.C. 41906; or
(10) Operations conducted under the provisions of §91.321 of this chapter.

Click to expand...

Your reference seems to indicate the answer to the question

can anyone carry pax for hire in part 91 anymore? Don't they have to get a 135 certificate to hold out as a air taxi operator?
is no..
 
Tom-D said:
1.1 is where the FAA tells us a helo is an aircraft.
Click to expand...

So why does Part 119 differentiate between airplane operations and helicopter operations?

In the regulations if the word "aircraft" is used it follows the 14 CFR 1.1 definition, however reading further into the regulations distinctions are made between aircraft when the regulation states "airplane" or "helicopter".

you asked:
can anyone carry pax for hire in part 91 anymore? Don't they have to get a 135 certificate to hold out as a air taxi operator.
Click to expand...
Under Part 119 a helicopter operator can carry passengers (in limited operations) without an air carrier certificate, hence why I replied to your question:
Airplanes or helicopters?
Click to expand...
 
RotorAndWing said:
So why does Part 119 differentiate between airplane operations and helicopter operations?

In the regulations if the word "aircraft" is used it follows the 14 CFR 1.1 definition, however reading further into the regulations distinctions are made between aircraft when the regulation states "airplane" or "helicopter".

you asked:
Under Part 119 a helicopter operator can carry passengers (in limited operations) without an air carrier certificate, hence why I replied to your question:
Click to expand...

A very small portion of the GA we associate with here.

sorta like a nit..
 
Tom-D said:
A very small portion of the GA we associate with here.

sorta like a nit..
Click to expand...

Because it's a part of aviation you don't understand doesn't make it insignificant.

Your question was very general. Since helicopter operations are given more latitude in Part 91 operations than fixed wing it's worth noting the difference especially since 14 CFR 119, which tells us what is allowed and not allowed, differentiates between the two.
 
RotorAndWing said:
Because it's a part of aviation you don't understand doesn't make it insignificant.

Your question was very general. Since helicopter operations are given more latitude in Part 91 operations than fixed wing it's worth noting the difference especially since 14 CFR 119, which tells us what is allowed and not allowed, differentiates between the two.
Click to expand...

Wouldn't it have been better to stay on subject, and say no, you can't haul pax in part 91 like Ron implied?

After all we were talking about 100 hour inspections which do not apply to part 119 ops.
 
Tom-D said:
A CFI owns an aircraft, he uses it as personal transportation, gives instruction it, and allows others to rent it.

the annual was completed at 2300 hours, when is the next 100 hour inspection due?

1, 2400 hours?
2, when 100 hours of flight instruction has accumulated?
3, when 100 hours of rental time and instruction has accumulated.


next question

how does one separate the different times?
Click to expand...

I gather that if the aircraft has more than 2400 TT the owner can't provide instruction in it, but can continue to fly it themselves as transportation and can continue to rent it to others.

the only thing they can not do is provide instruction in it until a 100 hour or annual is completed.

True -- False?
 
Tom-D said:
Wouldn't it have been better to stay on subject
Click to expand...

Your question:

Tom-D said:
can anyone carry pax for hire in part 91 anymore? Don't they have to get a 135 certificate to hold out as a air taxi operator.
Click to expand...


Tom-D said:
After all we were talking about 100 hour inspections which do not apply to part 119 ops.
Click to expand...

See your question above. It was answered.


You're once again playing your tired old game here which is ask a question and then want to argue with responders.
 
Tom-D said:
I gather that if the aircraft has more than 2400 TT the owner can't provide instruction in it, but can continue to fly it themselves as transportation and can continue to rent it to others.

the only thing they can not do is provide instruction in it until a 100 hour or annual is completed.

True -- False?
Click to expand...

True.
 
RotorAndWing said:
Under Part 119 a helicopter operator can carry passengers (in limited operations) without an air carrier certificate,
Click to expand...
So can an airplane operator, too. See 91.147 and 119.1(e)(2). But not all aircraft operators, since 119.1(e)(2) is limited to airplanes and helicopters, although perhaps they'll add powered-lift when the Bell 609 is certified. In any event, balloons, gliders, gyrocopters, LTA, powered-parachute, etc., are out.
 
Tom-D said:
Wouldn't it have been better to stay on subject, and say no, you can't haul pax in part 91 like Ron implied?
Click to expand...
I never said that. In fact, I specifically said you can haul passengers for hire under Part 91 if you comply with 91.147. Of course, to comply with 91.409, you will have to use and airplane or helo that has a current 100-hour inspection.
 
Tom-D said:
I gather that if the aircraft has more than 2400 TT the owner can't provide instruction in it, but can continue to fly it themselves as transportation and can continue to rent it to others.
Click to expand...
Correct. In fact the owner can even provide instruction in it as long as no charge is made for either the instruction or the airplane.

the only thing they can not do is provide instruction in it until a 100 hour or annual is completed.
Click to expand...
They cannot charge for providing instruction in it. They also cannot carry passengers for hire under any Part -- 91, 119, 135, whatever (unless they have another FAA-approved maintenance program for doing that without specific 100-hour inspections).

True -- False?
Click to expand...
Both -- see explanation above.
 
Henning said:
Tom-D said:
I gather that if the aircraft has more than 2400 TT the owner can't provide instruction in it, but can continue to fly it themselves as transportation and can continue to rent it to others.

the only thing they can not do is provide instruction in it until a 100 hour or annual is completed.

True -- False?
Click to expand...

True.
Click to expand...
Not true -- see my post immediately above.
 
Henning said:
Please find me the instructor that provides the plane and themselves sans charge, I'll go do my ATP with them.
Click to expand...

I've done it and I've flown with others that have too. That said, it's generally an isolated event.
 
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